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StuartN
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18 May 2010, 4:04 am

Jimbeaux wrote:
Thank you for the great advice. I have decided I am NOT going to delete one of his characters, but instead, tell him that the next time he does that, I am going to make him start over at level 1 with the character. That way, he will know the consequences up front, which he really didn't this time.


I fail to understand why controlling and manipulating his play outside school is going to improve his behaviour in school. It sounds to me like he is getting double punished, first for misbehaving in school and second for inconveniencing his family. That sounds tough, and it sounds like setting up a punishment system where no change in behaviour will work for him anyway.

It would be better to address why he calls his teacher stupid, and shouts at her. He might have a very good reason. The behaviour is anappropriate, but that doesn't mean it isn't justified. Help him find a way of expressing what he feels that is not inappropriate - he might even stop adding to your unfortunate case of stress.



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18 May 2010, 5:42 am

Jimbeaux wrote:
We just can't get it through his head that these punishments are the results of his behavior.


If he honestly doesn't understand, then you're not accomplishing anything by punishing him, and you're making him and everyone around him miserable for nothing. Worse, you're making him feel resentful and angry, which is unlikely to improve his behavior.

Have you tried giving him punishment chores of some sort as soon as he comes home on a day he's behaved badly, as opposed to delaying the punishment until the weekend when he can't connect it to the wrongdoing anymore?

If the stick just doesn't work for this child, try the carrot; for every perfect day he has at school, he gets a treat, and for a perfect week he gets a bigger treat.

If that doesn't work either, or you're adamant that he has to be punished no matter what, you're going to need to see a shrink with experience in Aspie kids to get some new ideas to try; PLEASE don't keep throwing punishments at him willy-nilly in the hopes that one will stick!!


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ToughDiamond
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18 May 2010, 5:47 am

He called a teacher stupid....so what? I suspect the teacher will live. Unless you were in the room at the time, it's hard to know whether or not the teacher deserved it. And as Serenity said, you can't punish away a difference. Pavlovian condidioning doesn't work too well on humans because they know what you're up to.



nick007
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18 May 2010, 6:04 am

I had a lot of similar issues as that kid when I was in school. I didn't have computer back then but I had TV & video-games. My parents used to take the TV & video-games away as punishment & I would get really mad & start insulting my parents as well. I was really stressed out from school because I did not understand the teachers or the other students & I felt that I was being bullied quite a lot at school. I really wanted to be left alone but I got so stressed out that I had no other option but to throw a tantrum. When I got home I really needed time to relax & calm down but my parents wer constantly on my back about school stuff like studding, doing home-work ect & taking the SNES & TV away felt like I was being tortured. My parents tried to explain to me why my stuff was taken away but I felt like I was being punished because I was a failure. I was trying my hardest to behave & do what they wanted me to but it was never good enough.
I really have a feel that the kid mite could be feeling the same way. He may be incapable of knowing how else to deal with things & punishing him because he has no other options will only add to the feelings of him being misunderstood/bullied or whatever he's feeling & he will get even more out of hand at home. I would intentionally annoy my parents till they gave me my stuff back & 1ce I had it back; I was good. I completely agree that screaming at his teacher & calling her stupid is NOT appropriate behavior but in his mind he is a victim who is trying his best. I do understand that you are extremely frustrated with him & are trying your best but I bet he feels just as bad if not worse than you about it. I do NOT think that punishing him because he is incapable of conforming to others standards is a good idea. There are much better ways to deal with behavior than punishment. Do his teachers know he has AS & understand it :?: It would not surprise me if they are expecting/demanding him to do things he just can not do. I had lots of issues with being misunderstood by teachers. After I started high-school & my parents quit pushing me so hard with school stuff; I started having much less problems at school & at home.


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CockneyRebel
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18 May 2010, 6:29 am

Your kid is going to grow up to be scared of you, like I grew up, to be scared of my dad.


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Jimbeaux
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18 May 2010, 8:20 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
He called a teacher stupid....so what? I suspect the teacher will live.

Teacher today, boss tomorrow. The world won't care he is an aspie. I want to help give him the best chance at success and happiness in life.



Jimbeaux
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18 May 2010, 8:22 am

S-P-M-E wrote:
If he honestly doesn't understand, then you're not accomplishing anything by punishing him, and you're making him and everyone around him miserable for nothing. Worse, you're making him feel resentful and angry, which is unlikely to improve his behavior.


I suspect that deep down, he does understand, but is just in a self-convincing denial.

I like your idea of the chores on the day he misbehaves. Maybe a choice of one of three. We are all moving in full time in three weeks, and when we do, I'll give it a shot. Thanks!



Jimbeaux
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18 May 2010, 8:33 am

StuartN wrote:
I fail to understand why controlling and manipulating his play outside school is going to improve his behaviour in school. It sounds to me like he is getting double punished, first for misbehaving in school and second for inconveniencing his family. That sounds tough, and it sounds like setting up a punishment system where no change in behaviour will work for him anyway.

It would be better to address why he calls his teacher stupid, and shouts at her. He might have a very good reason. The behaviour is anappropriate, but that doesn't mean it isn't justified. Help him find a way of expressing what he feels that is not inappropriate - he might even stop adding to your unfortunate case of stress.


He shouts at her and calls her stupid because she won't let him just sit there and not do his work, which he doesn't want to do because it is the end of the school year. And it is NOT justified.

We had a similar problem last year in Music class. The teacher just let him do nothing, and then gave him an F. Personally, I would rather have him pushed a bit.

We address it at home because the school's punishment isn't effective at the end of the year. During the year, they go on class trips, which if they accumulate enough demerits, they can't go. When that happens, we let it go at that. However, they have had their last class trip. So there are no real consequences when they get demerits.



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18 May 2010, 8:35 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
Your kid is going to grow up to be scared of you, like I grew up, to be scared of my dad.


Doubtful. We have a great time together usually.



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18 May 2010, 8:51 am

As I said earlier, sounds like the school isn't providing him what he needs. Does he have an IEP? Does he get any services at all? When you move will he be at your house most of the time? If not, what are the consequences for him at his grandma's? It's your girlfriend's responsibility to be disciplining him, and making sure the environment is consistent. If it's not, and the consequences for specific behaviors aren't the same for EVERY environment, then it's a complete waste of time. Honestly, it sounds to me like there's too many transitions for him. He lives in two separate households, and also goes to daycare. I can only speak for myself, but I'd not have been very happy, or stable as a child like that. Too many variables, and transitions.

With all that being said, and after checking your past posts I do think that you're actually trying to understand your soon to be step son. I think it is a genuine effort on your part, and I applaud you for that. Though, if I may make one suggestion, when thinking of any punishments please stop going after things that will emotionally damage him, ie video game characters/favorite stuffed toy that he's attached to. Punishments are supposed to suck, because they're not fun. That's what they're designed to do, but not hurt emotionally. If you keep up with emotionally traumatizing him, you are going to have a kid with issues that you can't control in a couple of yrs.



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18 May 2010, 9:12 am

Gosh this is hard for me to say because in my day we had this thing called an "Atari 2600" it was like the forrunner to all video games. We were taught that the video game was a priviledge and not a right. I was only allowed to play the video game if my grades in school were good. Most of the time they were not. But because I knew the game was here I used to sneak it out of my parent's closet and hook it up and play it when they were not home. I was very quick with doing it too. I could unplug it and put it back in the closet before they could partk the car in the driveway. And I could make it look like it wasn't even disturbed.
One day I got caught. I missed them coming home because I was in the bathroom and there it was Pac-man and all. My parents said that they would give it away to somebody and they did. I was glad because I felt that what good was the thing if all it was going to do was sit in the bottom of their closet and not get played. With it being gone the temptation to play it was removed.

but now as far as having tantrums, I wouldn't stand for it. Tantrums do not get anyone anywhere. Put your foot down don't be a wuss about it. Draw your line in the sand and don't let them cross it. Show that you mean business, If you don't you will be a doormat and you won't be respected.


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Jimbeaux
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18 May 2010, 9:40 am

serenity wrote:
As I said earlier, sounds like the school isn't providing him what he needs. Does he have an IEP? Does he get any services at all? When you move will he be at your house most of the time? If not, what are the consequences for him at his grandma's? It's your girlfriend's responsibility to be disciplining him, and making sure the environment is consistent. If it's not, and the consequences for specific behaviors aren't the same for EVERY environment, then it's a complete waste of time. Honestly, it sounds to me like there's too many transitions for him. He lives in two separate households, and also goes to daycare. I can only speak for myself, but I'd not have been very happy, or stable as a child like that. Too many variables, and transitions.

He has an IEP and a full time aid. He moves in with me in three weeks as soon as school is over. We figured it would be easier for him to transition if he didn't have to deal with a new environment AND a new school. Consequences at grandma's are almost non-existent. Grandma runs the house, and she will always sacrifice long term development for short term harmony. Billy being bad will usually end up with mom getting yelled at by Grandma. I agree, it must be difficult for him. But OH the progress he has made since he started spending weekends at my place! I couldn't be more proud of him.

serenity wrote:
With all that being said, and after checking your past posts I do think that you're actually trying to understand your soon to be step son. I think it is a genuine effort on your part, and I applaud you for that. Though, if I may make one suggestion, when thinking of any punishments please stop going after things that will emotionally damage him, ie video game characters/favorite stuffed toy that he's attached to. Punishments are supposed to suck, because they're not fun. That's what they're designed to do, but not hurt emotionally. If you keep up with emotionally traumatizing him, you are going to have a kid with issues that you can't control in a couple of yrs.

Thanks. I am trying, and it is difficult. I've never had a child before, and the only experience I have is how I was disciplined by my father and what I glean here from others. I am learning, and traumatizing him is not what I want to do. Which is why his legos and stuffed animal are off limits. Thank you for all the great ideas, and the insights.



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18 May 2010, 10:32 am

I think there has been a good, meaningful discussion about your original question. Given that every parent-child relationship is unique, there will never be one right answer, and I am sure that you will navigate this.

All that I will add is a suggestion that you begin to watch for signs of ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder). If his behaviours are, indeed, outside typical expectations then, given his age, there is an opportunity to start some positive intervention.


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0_equals_true
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18 May 2010, 11:06 am

this is a duplicate thread



CockneyRebel
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18 May 2010, 1:06 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
this is a duplicate thread


I thoight that I did see the same thread in the parenting section. I also think that of course the OP was going to get the responses that he got, by posting this topic, here in the autism forum, as well. If he got the responses that he got from us, than why is he acting so surprised?


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Last edited by CockneyRebel on 18 May 2010, 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LipstickKiller
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18 May 2010, 1:07 pm

Have you read Ross Green's "The explosive child"? It proposes a whole new way of dealing with tantrums and aggression, especially in children with diagnoses. Read it!

In case you don't I'll suggest some things along the lines of what he proposes.

Talk to him. See if he can tell you what is bothering him at school. Don't judge his feelings, but really listen. Then tell him why his behaviour is problematic and ask him if he can think if an alternative to yelling at the teacher, like maybe having a punching bagat home he can whack to get aggression out. Listen to his suggestions, at ten he can probably be pretty creative. Most importantly, think of this as a problem that he and you and his mother need to solve together and don't make him feel like HE'S the problem. He would probably be a 'good' kid if he just knew how, punishing him will most likely lead to more frustration and more tantrums and you don't want to be at war with him.