Being nice guy, something to do about it.

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herbivore
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23 Apr 2006, 2:47 pm

Anubis612 wrote:
The problem most likely is confidence for most nice guys. I find that many, including myself lack confidence in approaching girls and are rather afraid of negative consequences. I tend to be the type of guy who likes to be approached first. Regarding being nice, many people say that I need to retaliate against insults more. I simply tell them that I became used to them a long time ago. I guess that I simply do not like conflict either.


For myself, this is pretty close to correct. It is my belief that when they say 'nice guy' to me that is what they may believe, but they do not always understand themselves. Many of the behaviors I display are related to being a nice guy, but I can see how they could be interpreted as a lack of confidence, especialy when considering that the person is likely responding to a sub-concious feeling that they have. With regard to retaliating against insults: I understand that choice of behavior is an illusion. People may think they are deciding whether or not to say an insult, but in the end they will do whatever it is that seems right in the context of their genes + life experience. Therefore I instantly forgive insults, and only wish that there was some way I could help bring enlightenment to the person throwing it. Maybe not even the niceness part of it but just my behavior as an aspie could be interpreted as a lack of confidence to people who are obviously letting their instincts help choose their mate for them.

As usual, this does not quite capture my feeling on the matter, but as close as I can come right now.


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techstepgenr8tion
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23 Apr 2006, 5:32 pm

Something else I got reminded of in my AS group yesterday morning. The guy who heads it has a friend come in who's a psychologist who heads a Aspie teen group. When the group leader was mentioning just how normal everyone in our group comes off and that if he was out and saw any of us arround he wouldn't be able to tell we had AS she reminded him that yeah, it's good to a point, but that it is a double edged sword. Being that we come off as normal as we do it means that people also expect us to just flow like anyone else and when that doesn't there's a million and one reasons more related to elitism or bad attitude that they'll asign before they'd ever think we have it. In the situation that a lot of us have with women (at least for those guys who are self-respecting, not obiquitous, or not the POS 'nice guys' who still have problems regardless) its just a reminded that we really are in a situation where we aren't understood and it's less about us comming off as just underaccomplished, weak, or whatever else that might instinctively make sense from our end after seeing that day in and day out.

Problem is, again, its harsh to think about because in a way that misunderstanding and knowing there's no good way to squash it makes you feel like the control and means to improve that segment of your life just isn't in your hands - ie. if you've put in all the work to be who you know you need to be and just neurologically don't have it in you to pull off full-on NT no matter how determined you are. The shite part is, again, we might not be stuck-up arseholes or devoid of personality but defacto truth in some ways at the same time almost set things up to where it might as well be the truth. Oh well, life' in this world is a gas like that for a lot of people, its one of those things where we have to keep ourselves humbled on that if we don't want to go crazy thinking how jaded we are by the way things are working out in life (one of the reasons I tried to just take the defacto truth and think people hated me out of being un-alpha was because I would have much rather thought that than felt like it was this thin veil of misunderstanding cutting off my potential in so many ways - the second is a much more painful pill to swallow than the first).


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ELLCIM
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23 Apr 2006, 7:29 pm

Rob a store or donut shop. That'll get the "nice guy" moniker off your head! :lol:



techstepgenr8tion
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23 Apr 2006, 10:17 pm

ELLCIM wrote:
Rob a store or donut shop. That'll get the "nice guy" moniker off your head! :lol:


That or you could just turn into a complete guy-skank for a while.


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24 Apr 2006, 9:36 am

Aspie nice guys

Hmm - ok I'm just guessing these guys are aspie but these are what they did that put me off.

Aspie No 1. Never actually asked me out to anything casual or low pressure or told me he was interested. Rang me up drunk one night at 3am and asked me if I would mind telling him how big my breasts are, yes he really used the word "breasts" and he was very polite, but I don't like being woken up and responded with "Do you know what time it is" and hung up. And I didn't speak to him again - I liked him but that phone call both angered me and freaked me out.

Aspie No 2. Ate all of a precious imported chocolate easter egg that another friend had given me - and that could not easily be replaced. He also slept with my best friend - which didn't bother me particularily, except he then left for his home town without saying good bye or thank you to either of us. What bad training he had. Leading up to the visit, he had spent a lot of time emailing me all his personal fantasies about me and him. I said it was ok for him to have these fantasies but I didn't want to be reading about them right now. He generally came on way too strong for me. I like a slow and gentle approach to dating. Not that he asked me out on a coffee date - no it was more like lets go camping in the top end (Far North Queensland) and look for WWII aeroplanes (spot the special interests).

Aspie No 3. Clearly liked me and would ring me up and talk for hours - fortunately our special interests overlapped. Never asked me out. When I finally asked him out, that was it, relationship over. Didn't help that I teased him over the phone one afternoon for phoning me when he was drunk.

Big Hint - DO NOT PHONE (ASPIE) GIRL WHEN YOU ARE DRUNK.

Another Big hint - Don't tell aspie girl you don't want to have sex with her. She will not tear your clothes off like the dating 101 site suggests - she will take you literally and think there is something wrong with you or her and go find someone else.

another big hint - first dates should not involve expensive restaurants and expensive flowers. You will just make the poor girl think you are trying to buy sex with her. Too much pressure. Start off with small affordable things.

I think the HBI site articles on Nice Guys apply - especially to guys who don't get it and think it is all wrong and doesn't apply to them. You are in denial.



Captsmrt
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24 Apr 2006, 11:00 am

What is wrong with being nice? Would you really want to be with a woman who wanted you to treat her poorly? That gets old quick......here is some advice. Be yourself....and try and be less annoying if that is one of the more potent qualities of your personality.



techstepgenr8tion
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24 Apr 2006, 11:06 am

Lol, I think I'd classify those guys as putzes. Be lucky though that you haven't had an HBI 'nice guy' in there - I get the nasty chills watching up prostrate themselves in front of women for attention (because they're doing everything that common sense by experience screams "No!!" to) and I'd imagine its probably at least two or three times as bad being that woman.


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Aspie_Chav
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25 Apr 2006, 6:39 am

Captsmrt wrote:
What is wrong with being nice? Would you really want to be with a woman who wanted you to treat her poorly? That gets old quick......here is some advice. Be yourself....and try and be less annoying if that is one of the more potent qualities of your personality.


There are scientific reasons why woman don't tend to go for nice guys. Scientific reason that you are not aware of.



wobbegong
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25 Apr 2006, 8:44 am

Quote:
What is wrong with being nice?


Depends what you mean by being "nice".

For me a real man

Asks a girl out himself with an invitation low pressured but specific for an early date ie coffee on Thursday at lunch time at the nice italian coffee shop around the corner.

When a girl turns him down - he asks if she wants to be asked again sometime instead of assuming she never wants to hear from him again. If she says she doesn't see him as a boyfriend - asks if she wants to be friends. A guy who reacts to the "not my boyfriend" by dropping the girl like a hot potato - is easily ruled out as the guy who only wants sex - and will miss out on all the girls who like to make friends first. A real guy wants to get to know a girl for herself not just the potential root.

Actively listens to what a girl says, for example when she says she only likes flowers from a home garden - the next time you see her for a date - you have home grown flowers not a shop bought ones. If she says she's on a diet - a real man does not bring her chocolates. He might invite her on an outing that would involve some exercise and less eating in order not to sabotage her efforts.

Actually tells a girl what his opinions and preferences are instead of always saying "I want what you want" because a girl (or a guy) gets tired real fast of someone so spineless to never declare an opinion of his own. The nasty part of this guy is that she will never be able to do anything to really please him when she wants to. The sad thing is if they both feel like going to a chinese restaurant - she will try to guess he likes a steak and he might guess she likes italian - and neither of them will end up in the restaurant they both wanted.

A real man finds a balance between talking and listening. Does not do all the talking or all the listening - takes turns. Same with organising the dates - he might organise one and then ask her what she'd like to do for the next - if he wants a next.

A real man doesn't dump all his problems with women on the girl on the first, second or third date. He does not blame all women for the misbehaviour of a few. He will not choose women who encourage and reward his self pity or he becomes a "nice guy" and gets what he deserves.

It is not nice to call a girl 10 times a day - it's creepy. Call once, organise to see each other.

To quote from the HBI Site
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/shotinfoot.shtml
Quote:
... by "Nice Guy" we aren't referring to *every* decent human male out there - we are referring to the whining, whinging types that complain because they can't get laid, can't find a relationship, and blame it all on the fact that it must be the fault of WOMEN because they just don't appreciate a "Nice Guy".


Nice guys think there are only two kinds of guys - "nice guys" like them or "jerks". They're wrong.



emp
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25 Apr 2006, 1:06 pm

wobbegong has hit the nail on the head. If you guys want to stop being losers, read what she wrote very carefully and absorb it. Then read it again tomorrow.



snowboardinstyle
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25 Apr 2006, 2:07 pm

Anubis612 wrote:
The problem most likely is confidence for most nice guys. I find that many, including myself lack confidence in approaching girls and are rather afraid of negative consequences. I tend to be the type of guy who likes to be approached first. Regarding being nice, many people say that I need to retaliate against insults more. I simply tell them that I became used to them a long time ago. I guess that I simply do not like conflict either.


I'd say the same myself. Although I would like to be accepted by others for who I am, I would rather not be a "people pleaser".

I've grown out of this a bit, and having success with some girls means not always being there for them. Predictability sometimes leads to you being their shoulder to cry on (metaphorically). While they look for conflict and spontinaety, you may be there for consolation or as "just friends". I'm not a psychologist though.

In my first real relationship with a girl, I've found it a little more successful to have less predictability. A sort of cat-and-mouse, sometimes I wouldn't answer her calls. This would leave her wondering about me, something that keeps her mind on me a little, wondering what's up. I don't usually play games but unless I do things to make her wonder what's up, the relationship gets stale. Just my experience, that's all.