Women who have aspergers: A non-issue for them

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wonders
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20 Jul 2010, 1:17 pm

[quote="johnnydangerous"]I am a handsome, in shape man who is 33 years old. But because I have aspergers, I am alone.

But if you're a pretty woman with aspergers, it just doesn't matter. In fact men might even like you MORE because of it.

seems kinda double standards that a pretty aspie girl has all the dates she likes but a handsome aspie male does not .. Something wrong with this picture , and its NOT being aspie either !



johnnydangerous
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20 Jul 2010, 1:17 pm

azurecrayon wrote:
i am not a woman with aspergers. what i am is a non-autistic woman who is partnered with an aspie man. granted, we didnt know he was an aspie man until this year, but weve been together 11 years. knowing he has aspergers, or even possibly classic autism, doesnt change who he is tho, and i was with him long before we had a name to put on his eccentricities.

what i see in your post is that you mention multiple times that you are handsome and in shape, and talk about women being attracted to your looks but drop you once they realize you are different. i once read another thread here on wrong planet from a woman having a hard time finding a male romantic partner. her situation was rather opposite yours as she did not consider herself attractive but did the makeup and clothing routine so many women do and was still having a difficult time finding someone to be with.

i think a lot of times it comes down to knowing your target audience. like writing a book or filming a movie, know who you are trying to attract. if you are relying on superficial means (outside appearances, looks, clothing, makeup, online pickup techniques, etc), then you will attract the superficial people. those are the people that arent going to like different or weird. they wont appreciate the person you are on the inside.

instead, try going where the "real" people are. poetry coffeehouses, book clubs, hobby groups, techie groups, etc. try finding people that are going to share your interests, or be accepting of different. try online dating sites, or personals. real women arent looking for a man to use a pickup line on them they got off the internet. they want a man who is going to accept them, warts and all.

i dont believe in "the one" when it comes to romantic relations. i do believe there are matches out there for everybody. its just a matter of finding them. but you have to make sure you are looking in the right places.


You know Im tired of people like you saying I am "vain and self centered". You dont know me from a hole in the wall. Im as giving a person as you will ever meet. GOD FORBID I MENTION I AM NCIE LOOKING becuase then women like you will JUMP and say "OH SEE!! ! YOURE IN LOVE WITH YOURSELF!! !!"

I only mentioned it because I find it perplexing women wont give me a chance to show what I am really like. I DO NOT GO AROUND BRAGGING ABOUT HOW HOT I AM TO WOMEN so how exactly do women get the idea that I am "vain"?

PLEASE TELL ME HOW WOMEN WOULD THINK I AM VAIN, Id love to hear it, when I NEVER MENTION LOOKS AT ALL DURING DATES.

Is it a "magic intuition"? PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF.



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20 Jul 2010, 1:19 pm

Wuffles wrote:
johnnydangerous wrote:
You just make my point for me. Your friend spent 20 years with a jerkoff, meanwhile I am a good person, and alone. Am I supposed to feel sorry for an idiot woman who enjoys being abused while she would probably spit and ignore a good man like me (typical)?


See, if you'd have read my post, you'd already understand your problem. Allow me to quote myself:

Quote:
I wonder if you have considered that it might not be the aspergers that women find off-putting?


AHAHAHA you have NO ANSWER to what I said. Your friend is an IDIOT typical woman who loves to get abused, then all you can say is "its your fault your alone".

Truth hurts.



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20 Jul 2010, 1:20 pm

Willard wrote:
Getting to know someone and successfully asking them out and having pleasant dating experiences is not rocket science, but - and I've been thinking about this a lot lately - this is one good reason for not diagnosing AS in children and young people. Once you become convinced of BS stereotypes like "Aspies can't flirt or ever know how to hookup or date and nobody will ever like them because they're different" it becomes self-fulfilling prophecy. But its pure BS.


johnnydangerous wrote:
Aspie women dont need to know any rules of flirting. You go out, look pretty, and men want to get to know you. Done. No offense but if you cant a man its another issue, like perhaps a weight problem. And its hard to feel sorry for people like that because you can control how you look, what you eat etc. but you cant control the way your brain works.


It is not true that you don't have to know how to flirt if you're a woman. I have no idea how to flirt, and this was true long before I ever suspected I could have AS or had even heard of it. In some ways that has helped me because I haven't become prey for unscrupulous men, but it is impossible for me to pursue someone or even let them know I am interested, whether it's for casual sex (which is even more difficult for me than a relationship) or a serious commitment.

There's this assumption that women just have to wait for men to come pick them up, but if you seem withdrawn and standoffish, like I do, that's not going to happen.

When I was 34 and had broken up with my bf I had been with since 18, I knew a lot of people because I was a volunteer with a community group. I saw these people every day and some were friends, but no one ever asked me out (except one of the homeless guys who was one of our clients). I am not pretty but not awful looking (and I am not fat since that seems to be an issue with the OP). I have a bf now but at the time I was alone for about 4 years with no one even remotely interested in being with me. (My current bf was eventually interested, but I don't know why.)

Frankly, I would have loved to have been slu*ty, but that was never an option. :D



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20 Jul 2010, 1:24 pm

Women have it easier?! Ha! You obviously have never been a woman! (This is true of most men, but the point stands.)

Aspie women are born with a big old "kick me" sign on our backs. Every jackass, jerk, and sociopath in the world sees us as perfect targets. We get into relationships with charming me who then proceed to abuse us, rape us, and occasionally kill us. But hey, we've got a boy, so our lives are perfect, right?

After my father died, my Aspie mom married two men, both of whom abused her and her children (focusing, of course, on the autistic female among them). My mom's got to be a really happy, fulfilled individual, just because she found some guys who were willing to have sex with her, right?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. There's a reason half the Aspie women in the world get PTSD. It's because half the sociopaths in the world think we make great punching bags.


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20 Jul 2010, 1:26 pm

johnnydangerous wrote:
Wuffles wrote:
johnnydangerous wrote:
You just make my point for me. Your friend spent 20 years with a jerkoff, meanwhile I am a good person, and alone. Am I supposed to feel sorry for an idiot woman who enjoys being abused while she would probably spit and ignore a good man like me (typical)?


See, if you'd have read my post, you'd already understand your problem. Allow me to quote myself:

Quote:
I wonder if you have considered that it might not be the aspergers that women find off-putting?


AHAHAHA you have NO ANSWER to what I said. Your friend is an IDIOT typical woman who loves to get abused, then all you can say is "its your fault your alone".

Truth hurts.


Actually, this is kind of a 'you proved my point' moment. The previous post wasn't mine, never met the woman. I was responding to your reply to someone else's post; but it doesn't matter. I think I've proved my point. I admire your dedication to trolling though (most trolls give up by page two). Unless you're serious, in which case...er...good luck to your therapist and stay out of bars.

:D



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20 Jul 2010, 1:32 pm

johnnydangerous wrote:
You know Im tired of people like you saying I am "vain and self centered". You dont know me from a hole in the wall. Im as giving a person as you will ever meet. GOD FORBID I MENTION I AM NCIE LOOKING becuase then women like you will JUMP and say "OH SEE!! ! YOURE IN LOVE WITH YOURSELF!! !!"

I only mentioned it because I find it perplexing women wont give me a chance to show what I am really like. I DO NOT GO AROUND BRAGGING ABOUT HOW HOT I AM TO WOMEN so how exactly do women get the idea that I am "vain"?

PLEASE TELL ME HOW WOMEN WOULD THINK I AM VAIN, Id love to hear it, when I NEVER MENTION LOOKS AT ALL DURING DATES.

Is it a "magic intuition"? PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF.


Alright, here's one for you: you do appear to have anger issues. Instead of probing or asking, you attack. Azurecrayon's post recognized that she might be drawing the wrong conclusions, but your response does not - you directly and with obvious anger throw everything back at her with extreme exageration, and say she is the one who is wrong. You did something similar to me; posted right off that my opinion was a waste. FYI, her advice about going to meet people in the places where "real" people hang out was highly sound, but you seemed to have missed that part in your cloud of anger. If this is any indication of how you interact in real life, I think we've found the problem.

So, here is the question: if you respond that way in posts, do you also do that in real life? Because no one wants to date a guy who doesn't even TRY to listen to a woman. You don't appear to even be trying. We're just wrong, overly simplistic, patronizing, and creatures deserving of immediate knee jerk negative reactions - if one is going to read into your responses. Is that how you feel about the women you interact with in real life?


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 20 Jul 2010, 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20 Jul 2010, 2:11 pm

johnnydangerous wrote:
Wuffles wrote:
johnnydangerous wrote:
You just make my point for me. Your friend spent 20 years with a jerkoff, meanwhile I am a good person, and alone. Am I supposed to feel sorry for an idiot woman who enjoys being abused while she would probably spit and ignore a good man like me (typical)?


See, if you'd have read my post, you'd already understand your problem. Allow me to quote myself:

Quote:
I wonder if you have considered that it might not be the aspergers that women find off-putting?


AHAHAHA you have NO ANSWER to what I said. Your friend is an IDIOT typical woman who loves to get abused, then all you can say is "its your fault your alone".

Truth hurts.


It was actually DW A Mom who has the friend. Wuffles was using your reply to her to show why it is that women are staying away from you.

Any man who would say such terrible things about a woman emerging from an abusive relationship is not a man that women want to be with. It doesn't matter what neurology the man has. The cruel attitude towards women is what is off-putting.

Women with Asperghers Syndrome are at a partciular risk for getting into abusive relationships. You shouldn't say such cruel things about any woman emerging from an abusive relationship. But hurling insults about one while at the same time saying that women with Aspergers "have it easy" is a sure-fire way to repel women of all neurological types.



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20 Jul 2010, 2:21 pm

As a woman with AS, I disagree with you.

This is what men in general demand of women, in general order of significance.

1. Great looking body and facial features.
2. Nice smile.
3. Graceful feminine mannerism.
4. Overall "kemptness"
5. Vibrant energy.
6. Sexual liberalness...with them only.
7. Emotionally warm.


This is what women generally demand of men, in general order of significance.

1. Good personality.
a) Forgiving (this is what women mean by sense of humor)
b) Relatively patient
c) Reliable
d) Ambitious
e) Honest
2. Average body.
3. Financial stability.
4. Able to support at least himself.


No matter what I do, I cannot meet standards 1 and 4. I do not have a perfect body. I will never have a perfect body and I do not even have an average body for women my age. I have a below average body due to connective tissue damage and there is no treatment for it. I cannot stay kept looking for the life of me. My hair always has split ends, will always get messy quickly, and feminine clothing just does not stay in place...perhaps it is something with my posture? I don't know.

I do not meet 2. To get a nice smile would require about $10,000 in dental and orthodontics work and I don't have that, and regardless of my teeth, I do not have a warm smile anyway. My facial features and muscles simply do not allow for it.

3. I have tried, but alas, I AM NOT GRACEFUL., nor dainty, nor very feminine though I have made some small improvements.

I *could* meet 5, 6 and 7. But I cannot be vibrant for long periods of time as it's not my natural personality and like many on the spectrum I have facial hypotonia and actually can't hold a smile or a "vibrant" expression about myself for very long. I could be sexually liberal theoretically, had I no moral objections to it, but it would really do me no good because men have such big double standards on this. They want a women who is both easy enough to put out for them, and experienced, and simultaneously a virgin or extremely sexually modest with respect to men who are not them. And last, I can fake emotional warmth though probably not very well. I can be quite sincerely warm with those who get to know me but few men who I am interested in give me the chance to prove that.

But most men can obtain a fairly average body and most women will even take a man with a below average body. While personality can't be changed, personality traits can be improved upon. So it is actually far easier for a man to achieve the traits women desire than for a woman to achieve the traits men desire, as men place A LOT of weight on physical appearance and one can only help how they look to a point.


And women are a lot more forgiving and are a lot more flexible in their standards for men than men are of women. Women generally expect husbands to not be as emotionally warm, not appear to be as considerate, and forget important dates, but it is not forgivable for a woman to be like this and this is exactly how most women with As are.

In fact, when you (the original poster) were thinking of "women" in your original post, I doubt you were really thinking of women with AS, and you were probably thinking of women getting men in the sense that there are many men who would not turn down most women....there are many women who would not turn down most men, but it's not just a matter of quantity but mutual compatibility.



buryuntime
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20 Jul 2010, 2:27 pm

Because Asperger's is only social awkwardness, amirite??



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20 Jul 2010, 2:33 pm

johnnydangerous wrote:
You know Im tired of people like you saying I am "vain and self centered". You dont know me from a hole in the wall. Im as giving a person as you will ever meet. GOD FORBID I MENTION I AM NCIE LOOKING becuase then women like you will JUMP and say "OH SEE!! ! YOURE IN LOVE WITH YOURSELF!! !!"

I only mentioned it because I find it perplexing women wont give me a chance to show what I am really like. I DO NOT GO AROUND BRAGGING ABOUT HOW HOT I AM TO WOMEN so how exactly do women get the idea that I am "vain"?

PLEASE TELL ME HOW WOMEN WOULD THINK I AM VAIN, Id love to hear it, when I NEVER MENTION LOOKS AT ALL DURING DATES.

Is it a "magic intuition"? PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF.


no where in my post did i ever say you were, or even that i thought you were, vain and/or self centered. what i DID say, and what you evidently didnt read, is that i think you are looking for love in all the wrong places.

i am not a mean person. opinionated yes, but i try to be nice to people and accepting of who they are. therefore i dont automatically assume a post such as yours is a trolling post, and try to treat it seriously and with respect. i believe i did so with your post. however there is a point at which even a nice person must take off the gloves and speak directly.

but i will explain myself as you request. these are quotes from you in this thread:
"No offense but if you cant a man its another issue, like perhaps a weight problem. And its hard to feel sorry for people like that because you can control how you look, what you eat etc. but you cant control the way your brain works."
"I have done everything in my power to "make up" for my social failings. I work out, wear nice clothes, and thankfully was born with a handsome face. Does any of this matter? Nope. Because in the end the short, fat bald guy with social skills will do better than me and get the woman."
"Then a gorgeous women will land on my lap, right?"
"Am I supposed to feel sorry for an idiot woman who enjoys being abused while she would probably spit and ignore a good man like me (typical)?"
"Your friend is an IDIOT typical woman who loves to get abused"

news flash: looks arent everything. they also fade. at some point we will all be ugly. you and the short fat bald guy will look the same in the end, and women want to be with the one who treats her like a queen rather than the hot guy who is going to tell her she is getting too fat after giving him kids and thinks women are idiots in general. its not about social skills, its about how you think of, talk about, and treat people. and no, working out, nice clothes, and being handsome doesnt fix that.

NOW, after reading more of your posts, i think you are vain and self-centered. however i do still believe theres someone out there for everyone. there are women willing to take a man who is ugly on the inside as long as hes pretty on the outside. or women whose self esteem is so low they will take any man they can get.

so i guess there is still hope for you yet.



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20 Jul 2010, 2:48 pm

johnnydangerous wrote:
KaiG wrote:
johnnydangerous wrote:
Celoneth wrote:
johnnydangerous wrote:
Celoneth wrote:
Obviously - because the ONLY thing Asperger's impairs is one's ability to have a relationship and having a relationship is the ONLY thing that matters - everything else is a non-issue :roll:


Not the only issue but by far the biggest one. I can live without many close friends, or any. But having noone to share my life with...I cant deal with that anymore.

Im just saying, women with aspergers, although they have things to deal with too, dont have to face going through life alone the way men do. There will always be a man waiting for them. Not so with aspie men.


Right - the biggest one - because problems with things like getting a job because you lack interpersonal skills which impedes your ability to be independent isn't an important issue, having trouble in school due to bullies, sensory issues, etc. aren't important either.

I've never had a relationship - now, granted I don't want one - but I am really sick of this assumption that Aspie women has some innate ability to have perfect love lives, have men flocking to them, know the rules of flirting etc.

You need to learn to be happy with yourself, and not expect some outside event to bring you happiness.


Its easy for someone to say "be happy with yourself" when they are with somneone already. Aspie women dont need to know any rules of flirting. You go out, look pretty, and men want to get to know you. Done. No offense but if you cant a man its another issue, like perhaps a weight problem. And its hard to feel sorry for people like that because you can control how you look, what you eat etc. but you cant control the way your brain works.

I have done everything in my power to "make up" for my social failings. I work out, wear nice clothes, and thankfully was born with a handsome face. Does any of this matter? Nope. Because in the end the short, fat bald guy with social skills will do better than me and get the woman.

Its hopeless.

You seem to have an obsession with appearances and an entitlement complex, which are traits of Narcissism. Counselling.


Dont think too hard, now. Again...blaming me, as if my negative feelings are causing my problems, not vice versa. I love people like you.

I'm not blaming you, I'm telling you to stop blaming others, and get help with your narcissistic tendencies.


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20 Jul 2010, 3:03 pm

I find I'm actually hoping you're trolling in this thread, because I would hate to think the negative attitudes and prejudices expressed actually continue to exist.

I'm not going to address the attacks you made on my friend, because that is beyond uninformed.

While some of us started out posting with a sincere desire to offer assistance and perspective, your responses have allowed us, it seems, to figure out what your real issues are, and they have nothing to do with your AS, nor do I believe they can be accurately blamed on a lifetime of rejection. If you aren't trolling as you write those posts, you need to understand that the undercurrent of hostility is going to come through in your real life interactions, even if you aren't outright expressing it.

Now, you get to decide what to do about it. Take the observations to heart, get professional assistance understanding all this if need be, or continue to attack and continue to be alone. You choose.


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20 Jul 2010, 3:25 pm

johnnydangerous wrote:
I find this to be so unfair, and so cruel, to the men who have aspergers. There is an old aspie joke that says "whats the difference between an aspie male and an aspie female? answer: the aspie female is married".


The posters who said you have to rely on yourself are 100% correct. I had problems with this in my late teens/early twenties and ended up stalking a girl I hadn't seen for four years. Things got a lot better for me when I realised that I just wasn't equipped to have women in my life and adjusted my hopes and aspirations accordingly.



wonders
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20 Jul 2010, 3:55 pm

Chronos wrote:
As a woman with AS, I disagree with you.

This is what men in general demand of women, in general order of significance.

1. Great looking body and facial features.
2. Nice smile.
3. Graceful feminine mannerism.
4. Overall "kemptness"
5. Vibrant energy.
6. Sexual liberalness...with them only.
7. Emotionally warm.


This is what women generally demand of men, in general order of significance.

1. Good personality

this is exactly on the button ! I couldnt hit 5 out of 7 of these if my life depended on it . Not when I was young and not now either .
a) Forgiving (this is what women mean by sense of humor)
b) Relatively patient
c) Reliable
d) Ambitious
e) Honest
2. Average body.
3. Financial stability.
4. Able to support at least himself.


No matter what I do, I cannot meet standards 1 and 4. I do not have a perfect body. I will never have a perfect body and I do not even have an average body for women my age. I have a below average body due to connective tissue damage and there is no treatment for it. I cannot stay kept looking for the life of me. My hair always has split ends, will always get messy quickly, and feminine clothing just does not stay in place...perhaps it is something with my posture? I don't know.

I do not meet 2. To get a nice smile would require about $10,000 in dental and orthodontics work and I don't have that, and regardless of my teeth, I do not have a warm smile anyway. My facial features and muscles simply do not allow for it.

3. I have tried, but alas, I AM NOT GRACEFUL., nor dainty, nor very feminine though I have made some small improvements.

I *could* meet 5, 6 and 7. But I cannot be vibrant for long periods of time as it's not my natural personality and like many on the spectrum I have facial hypotonia and actually can't hold a smile or a "vibrant" expression about myself for very long. I could be sexually liberal theoretically, had I no moral objections to it, but it would really do me no good because men have such big double standards on this. They want a women who is both easy enough to put out for them, and experienced, and simultaneously a virgin or extremely sexually modest with respect to men who are not them. And last, I can fake emotional warmth though probably not very well. I can be quite sincerely warm with those who get to know me but few men who I am interested in give me the chance to prove that.

But most men can obtain a fairly average body and most women will even take a man with a below average body. While personality can't be changed, personality traits can be improved upon. So it is actually far easier for a man to achieve the traits women desire than for a woman to achieve the traits men desire, as men place A LOT of weight on physical appearance and one can only help how they look to a point.


And women are a lot more forgiving and are a lot more flexible in their standards for men than men are of women. Women generally expect husbands to not be as emotionally warm, not appear to be as considerate, and forget important dates, but it is not forgivable for a woman to be like this and this is exactly how most women with As are.

In fact, when you (the original poster) were thinking of "women" in your original post, I doubt you were really thinking of women with AS, and you were probably thinking of women getting men in the sense that there are many men who would not turn down most women....there are many women who would not turn down most men, but it's not just a matter of quantity but mutual compatibility.



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20 Jul 2010, 3:55 pm

Gah, fun with male privilege. Women don't owe you anything.

BTW, I'm a lesbian. So that means I have the same problem finding dates that many heterosexual autistic men have. Before I came out, and when I was prettier (I'm conventionally ugly now and it's such a relief not to have creepy guys after me), I did have a few boys (I came out as soon as I was an adult) attracted to me. One of them was a sociopath who stalks women and prefers vulnerable ones. One of them was physically abusive (although he's actually grown up and learned from the experience, shockingly, and no subsequent gfs have had a problem with him). One of them enjoyed messing with my mind as part of some weird power game that he later said made him feel like a sexual predator. (I only actually dated one of them, although given my passivity I agreed to say I was dating another one, even though nothing really happened between us.)

That's the reality for most autistic women. Personally I would rather not date at all, than date men who abuse me physically, emotionally, or sexually. Autistic women are perceived as "pretty and vulnerable" and there's a certain kind of man who likes to take advantage of that. If you claim you would even want that rather than be alone, then you don't understand what real abuse is like.

Oh and I was also molested as a child by an "aspie" man who couldn't get a date and had one of those male privilege entitlement complexes that made him take out his sexual frustration on me because he thought women owed him. I find that autistic men tend to wear such entitlement complexes on their sleeves and do incredibly destructive things to women and girls because of them. (Whereas nonautistic men tend to be subtler about it even if they have the same attitude.) Women will like you better once you stop acting like the world owes you sex. Seriously. Such attitudes radiate off men who have them, especially autistic men, and self-respecting women are repulsed by them.

I'm saying all this as someone who has never been able to find a female romantic partner. (It's harder for autistic people who prefer women because women often don't take the initiative, and autistic people have trouble with initiative.) Thing is, eventually you have to take the attitude that if it happens it will happen and if it doesn't it doesn't but you can live with yourself either way. And I'm a woman who likes myself fine despite not being able to find another woman yet.


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