does Broader Autism Phenotype fall under PDD-NOS?

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blooiejagwa
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22 Jul 2020, 7:21 pm

Janissy wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
IOr just imagine a whole family, cousins, aunts and uncles, and they all have traits but put them all together, they fall onto the autism spectrum but each of them isn't on it. That would depend on what characteristics they have.


That's my husband's family. And my family. They got "put all together" when we had a child and that is probably why she is autistic. Although she is a unique individual, I can see bits and pieces of each trait in different members of both families including myself.


i know this is old (from 2010) but this is fascinating and truly shows in my family (my siblings and I vs. my parents and their siblings)

and then you have my kids who are even more delayed and obviously autistic


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25 Jul 2020, 2:28 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:
my youngest brother has PDD-nos diagnosis and he has everything that they said for me demonstrated autism (in my case)
yet for him they labeled it pdd nos- he is less adept than me (although i was just as hapless as him before)
in many ways.. after having kids it seems my abilities sky-rocketed compared to before..., though it doesn't last throughout the day, it's a million times better than i was prior (i think when u give birth and take care of kids your brain must do something and develop more so u can handle it)

and can even be classed as level 2 though he appears to be super capable and super intelligent (and witty).. he fits those things most.. even though i don't want to say it to him.. he consistently shows LEVEL 2 need of assistance and without it accomplishes nothing ..even just getting himself a drink or going to bathroom takes him so much difficulty and effort in planning and anxiety..

it's really obvious if you meet him.. but he (and my parents) think otherwise..
my parents are so good at not realizing anything though

while he is intelligent, the 'capability' is an act/show that never results in action because it's only to pacify people and a defense mechanism .. and he is unable ..
if someone met him they would know what i mean.. he cannot do anything.. but compared to me he can talk to people in a coordinated wway.. but it's very odd because his word/reading/writing skills are wayyyy higher than anything else (just like me) ..
so i guess they classed that as PDD-NOS???
Reminds me a bit of me and my brother except i'm not quiet as helpless. My older brother isn't as intelligent as me but doesn't struggle that much. My brother for the most part can function independently. My brother doesn't struggle much socially however. I basically can't talk to people I know. If I do i have to carefully word it. I prefer doing things myself even if it would be easier for other people to do. It's because when you struggle to do alot of things, You want to hold on to the things you can do. I similarly act like i'm perfectly capable of doing things even if I don't know how. I just try to figure it out myself. And to some extent having experienced something similar to what your brother experiences. I think I can help you understand. You're parents probably realize that and so does your brother it's just neither wants to highlight it or point it out. Realizing that you likely won't be able to get past the obstacles is not only frustrating but often counter-productive. However, My defense mechanism as you call it is due to being neglected and abused. I refuse to show lack of ability so other people don't' take advantage of it. Which is why, I normally just pretend like I know what i'm doing. Admittedly, This often frustrates my parents because I end up doing it wrong and making a mess. Being forced to rely on other people heavily makes you feel useless. You want to try to ignore that and pretend that it doesn't exist. It's likely your parents realize this but just don't' feel it necessary to make light of it. My problem was that I was intelligent enough and driven enough to succeed at anything i put my mind to but, That couldn't last.. Unfortantely. Intelligence isn't everything. I'm smart enough to succeed at anything I want to but because of my disability I simply can't. That is something extremely hard to come to terms with and is easier to walk around it than to confront it. I assume that you mean he can't talk to people in a coordinated way. I struggle to do this aswell. It could be either speech problems, social anxiety or a combination of the both. Some social situations, I just don't know how to deal with. Even on the internet. Certian things can happen that make em incredibly anxious and I just don't know how to function with.. I can understand how this'd appear perplexing cause I can talk to people I'm comfortable with just fine. It can take a long time for me to get there too. I've gotten better at this although.


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25 Jul 2020, 4:50 pm

FranzOren wrote:
My psychiatrist explained to me that since Autism is a spectrum, it is possible to have some rare from Pervasive Developmental Disorder with neurotypical social skills from early childhood to adulthood and not all with Autism need to fit the criteria version of Autism

Well, according to you, your psychiatrist said that people can have autism without having autism. I don't know why you seem unable to see that this doesn't make sense.

Quote:
it is possible to have some rare from Pervasive Developmental Disorder with neurotypical social skills from early childhood to adulthood

Autism doesn't include every single kind of pervasive developmental disorder though, so you can't say those people are autistic just because they have some sort of PDD.



blooiejagwa
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27 Jul 2020, 6:40 am

Pieplup wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
my youngest brother has PDD-nos diagnosis and he has everything that they said for me demonstrated autism (in my case)
yet for him they labeled it pdd nos- he is less adept than me (although i was just as hapless as him before)
in many ways.. after having kids it seems my abilities sky-rocketed compared to before..., though it doesn't last throughout the day, it's a million times better than i was prior (i think when u give birth and take care of kids your brain must do something and develop more so u can handle it)

and can even be classed as level 2 though he appears to be super capable and super intelligent (and witty).. he fits those things most.. even though i don't want to say it to him.. he consistently shows LEVEL 2 need of assistance and without it accomplishes nothing ..even just getting himself a drink or going to bathroom takes him so much difficulty and effort in planning and anxiety..

it's really obvious if you meet him.. but he (and my parents) think otherwise..
my parents are so good at not realizing anything though

while he is intelligent, the 'capability' is an act/show that never results in action because it's only to pacify people and a defense mechanism .. and he is unable ..
if someone met him they would know what i mean.. he cannot do anything.. but compared to me he can talk to people in a coordinated wway.. but it's very odd because his word/reading/writing skills are wayyyy higher than anything else (just like me) ..
so i guess they classed that as PDD-NOS???
Reminds me a bit of me and my brother except i'm not quiet as helpless. My older brother isn't as intelligent as me but doesn't struggle that much. My brother for the most part can function independently. My brother doesn't struggle much socially however. I basically can't talk to people I know. If I do i have to carefully word it. I prefer doing things myself even if it would be easier for other people to do. It's because when you struggle to do alot of things, You want to hold on to the things you can do. I similarly act like i'm perfectly capable of doing things even if I don't know how. I just try to figure it out myself. And to some extent having experienced something similar to what your brother experiences. I think I can help you understand. You're parents probably realize that and so does your brother it's just neither wants to highlight it or point it out. Realizing that you likely won't be able to get past the obstacles is not only frustrating but often counter-productive. However, My defense mechanism as you call it is due to being neglected and abused. I refuse to show lack of ability so other people don't' take advantage of it. Which is why, I normally just pretend like I know what i'm doing. Admittedly, This often frustrates my parents because I end up doing it wrong and making a mess. Being forced to rely on other people heavily makes you feel useless. You want to try to ignore that and pretend that it doesn't exist. It's likely your parents realize this but just don't' feel it necessary to make light of it. My problem was that I was intelligent enough and driven enough to succeed at anything i put my mind to but, That couldn't last.. Unfortantely. Intelligence isn't everything. I'm smart enough to succeed at anything I want to but because of my disability I simply can't. That is something extremely hard to come to terms with and is easier to walk around it than to confront it. I assume that you mean he can't talk to people in a coordinated way. I struggle to do this aswell. It could be either speech problems, social anxiety or a combination of the both. Some social situations, I just don't know how to deal with. Even on the internet. Certian things can happen that make em incredibly anxious and I just don't know how to function with.. I can understand how this'd appear perplexing cause I can talk to people I'm comfortable with just fine. It can take a long time for me to get there too. I've gotten better at this although.


Well as I stated I was almost exactly like him until I had kids. So I understand him very well. It's all talk and pretense so people don't as you say look down on or hurt you as it's so complicated to explain your issues + you dont even know what those issues are except over time through trial and error they come out and somebody might point an issue out to you. But apart from that it's v difficult.
Just breathing seems to cost my brother energy as it did with me.

I think from ages 10 - 12 all my brothers and I started struggling with our issues in a way. I was 9 when they really became evident but my parents are not tge type to notice things (or they do but think screaming will solve it).
My brother with OCDhis issues were there since he was a toddler
He would display worrisome and debilitating habits and fears and issues.. Back then there wasno help..

Plus we were in Yemen so definitely no special needs help nor early intervention..
My parents worked really hard on him..they had to.. I think so much so that they saw me, by contrast, as independent.


Before those ages (9-12) it seemed our brains could handle what we had to do


(or maybe it was because kids had more help from adults + less was expected of us until ages 9 on).

Hyperlexia is a word that explains a lot.. Back then parents+ teachers did not associate good reading comprehension and writing skills with any disorder..




When the difficulties came out we would downplay them to prevent drama as u say being taken advantage of etc


.we were all bookworms except my normal sister (but she made herself become one)

But also

ate food

drank water by ourselves not put to our mouths (past toddlerhood)
Never ran into oncomibg traffic (past toddlerhood)
Were able to function on our own to such a degree that we 'passed' safely not endangering our lives every moment we were unattended to

Did lots of things ourselves
played games


Followed step by step instructions

Could relay the relevant events if asked

went biking

made up stories

Did crafts



etc



my severe autistic son can do none of that
Zero.

So im not saying we were that badly off but it seems as we grew it became worse than the previous year and idk whether thats because standards became higher than our capabilities or less guidanceor what
.i think we
were all stuck at how we were at age 11-12 mentally..
I was reading our writing (journals n schoolwork) n we seemed very bright for our ages..
So im wondering whether u can get stuck there or..?


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FranzOren
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13 Sep 2020, 4:24 pm

Thank you



FranzOren
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29 Jul 2022, 5:28 pm

starkid wrote:
FranzOren wrote:
My psychiatrist explained to me that since Autism is a spectrum, it is possible to have some rare from Pervasive Developmental Disorder with neurotypical social skills from early childhood to adulthood and not all with Autism need to fit the criteria version of Autism

Well, according to you, your psychiatrist said that people can have autism without having autism. I don't know why you seem unable to see that this doesn't make sense.

Quote:
it is possible to have some rare from Pervasive Developmental Disorder with neurotypical social skills from early childhood to adulthood

Autism doesn't include every single kind of pervasive developmental disorder though, so you can't say those people are autistic just because they have some sort of PDD.


What my psychiatrist meant to say is that there are some people that are well developed enough to have social skills, but meet only the diagnostic criteria B, C and and D for Autism Spectrum Disorder, I am sorry that I was not being clear enough!

B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or
activities, as manifested by at least two of the following,
currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not
exhaustive; see text):

1. Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of
objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypies, lining
up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic
phrases).

2. Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines,
or ritualized patterns of verbal or nonverbal behavior (e.g.,
extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with
transitions, rigid thinking patterns, greeting rituals, need to
take same route or eat same food every day).

3. Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in
intensity or focus (e.g., strong attachment to or
preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively
circumscribed or perseverative interests).

4. Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input or unusual
interest in sensory aspects of the environment (e.g.,
apparent indifference to pain/temperature, adverse
response to specific sounds or textures, excessive
smelling or touching of objects, visual fascination with
lights or movement).


C. Symptoms must be present in the early developmental period
(but may not become fully manifest until social demands
exceed limited capacities, or may be masked by learned
strategies in later life).


D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social,
occupational, or other important areas of current functioning.