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Skinnyboy
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04 Dec 2010, 8:09 am

Just as League Girl was having a bit of trouble with "claim", the term NT is all about context and added meaning. While the word claim was used correctly, it's other definitions imply that there could be doubt and the claim could be challenged, so the other meaning is tainted.

NT is a politically correct word, but it's meant for those on the spectrum to not have to refer to others as normal, implying ASD aren't. First, nobody is NT, just because someone isn't AS it doesn't mean they breeze through life understanding all that is socially. NT can be used as a distinction in discussion about behavior her without offense, many times it's used like this, to compare AS to the average person (NT). It becomes a slur when it's used as a blanket statement of all NT's derogatory behavior towards AS individuals.

I find the idea that offending someone is ok because you either don't care, or have been offended before a bit babyish. NT isn't a slur but it sure can be insulting if used with that intent. I've seen it used here on the forums both ways, with or without intent. I think the ability to insult without intent is very AS, the ability to insult with intent is all ASS.

League Girl, I understand why she was a bit offended but she sounds a bit uptight, I would think it quite funny if I were there because it's both correct and a bit humorous. I find literal meaning versus implied meaning to be the backbone of anything I say to make others laugh.



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04 Dec 2010, 11:40 am

Skinnyboy wrote:
Just as League Girl was having a bit of trouble with "claim", the term NT is all about context and added meaning. While the word claim was used correctly, it's other definitions imply that there could be doubt and the claim could be challenged, so the other meaning is tainted.

NT is a politically correct word, but it's meant for those on the spectrum to not have to refer to others as normal, implying ASD aren't. First, nobody is NT, just because someone isn't AS it doesn't mean they breeze through life understanding all that is socially. NT can be used as a distinction in discussion about behavior her without offense, many times it's used like this, to compare AS to the average person (NT). It becomes a slur when it's used as a blanket statement of all NT's derogatory behavior towards AS individuals.

I find the idea that offending someone is ok because you either don't care, or have been offended before a bit babyish. NT isn't a slur but it sure can be insulting if used with that intent. I've seen it used here on the forums both ways, with or without intent. I think the ability to insult without intent is very AS, the ability to insult with intent is all ASS.

League Girl, I understand why she was a bit offended but she sounds a bit uptight, I would think it quite funny if I were there because it's both correct and a bit humorous. I find literal meaning versus implied meaning to be the backbone of anything I say to make others laugh.



If you are talking about claim in the last sentence, I actually said to someone there "Excuse me, but I never said she couldn't say she has three kids, don't put words in my mouth" and she accused me of being snarky and to lose the attitude. I felt very annoyed because what did she expect? If she is going to be not taking what I say word for word, expect the darn attitude. But I dropped it because I was in no mood for a drama.

Now I think I know why she thought I was being snarky. She wasn't taking claim literal so we were both on different pages. She was thinking of something else. Now every time I see that word being used now, should I now assume that person isn't telling the truth when someone else says that person claims this or that. I even looked up the word and went back to the website and said what the word meant so I did use it right so why are some people offended. I was told I made it sound like my friend had no right to say she has three kids. I still didn't get it but I shrugged it off. Now I know "claim" has another meaning to it that isn't in the dictionary.

Well if it's an AS thing to insult without intent, why do NTs do it too? I hear they do it all the time also without any intent.


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04 Dec 2010, 12:07 pm

skinnyboy wrote~

Quote:
NT is a politically correct word, but it's meant for those on the spectrum to not have to refer to others as normal, implying ASD aren't. First, nobody is NT, just because someone isn't AS it doesn't mean they breeze through life understanding all that is socially. NT can be used as a distinction in discussion about behavior her without offense, many times it's used like this, to compare AS to the average person (NT). It becomes a slur when it's used as a blanket statement of all NT's derogatory behavior towards AS individuals.


I agree with this. I use the words normal or regular at home or in my head. I also do find that word to be politically correct. If I say anything, I might prefer "NT" on this site so no one jumps on me for saying normal or regular.



Quote:
I find the idea that offending someone is ok because you either don't care, or have been offended before a bit babyish. NT isn't a slur but it sure can be insulting if used with that intent. I've seen it used here on the forums both ways, with or without intent. I think the ability to insult without intent is very AS, the ability to insult with intent is all ASS.



Yeah, the actual word "neurotypical" isn't offensive. I'm talking about facts. A PDD is by fact a pervasive developmental disorder. Someone could be offended by that as well but that's just a fact of what that category is. If there's a better word than "NT", cool. It seems any word could be taken as offensive or be used as such.


Quote:
League Girl, I understand why she was a bit offended but she sounds a bit uptight, I would think it quite funny if I were there because it's both correct and a bit humorous. I find literal meaning versus implied meaning to be the backbone of anything I say to make others laugh.


I thought so too. ha



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04 Dec 2010, 3:26 pm

Jediscraps wrote:
In the 3rd page of the thread, "Myths of neurotypicals" ( http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf144740-0-30.html ), a person named. "Jono, wrote~
Quote:
"The term NT (neurotypical) was originally coined by the autistic community to refer to people who are not on the autism spectrum in order avoid using the word "normal". It was originally coined by Jim Sinclair of Autism Network International (ANI):

http://web.archive.org/web/200806060241 ... nguage.htm"



lelia wrote~
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I thought that I was simply naming a reality, but Roger pointed out that nobody wants to be "typical".


I swear I've come across professional works on the internet that used the terms. "typical", and also, "neurotypical". Possibly I am remembering wrong. Nonetheless, I am almost sure I've come across books written by professionals which used the term, "neurotypical".

I don't really care one way or the other for the term. I'm not into nt bashing either though.

People may or may not want to be "typical" but the autistic spectrum is a PDD, pervasive developmental disorder. It seems it would then have to be considered a 'disorder' from what is 'typical'.


You're not remembering wrong. The term "neurotypical" was later adopted by the scientific and professional community to refer to "normal" or "typical" brain development or people without neurological disorders or disabilities. The point I was making in that other thread was that when the word neurotypical was coined by the autistic community, it was never meant to be insulting.



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05 Dec 2010, 12:33 pm

I've been trying to remember the lecture I got, and since my hearing and understanding are so iffy, please forgive me if I got it wrong. I think he was referring to polls of doctors and other professions at conventions asking if they liked being referred to as neurotypical. If he was referring to polls of doctors, well of course they don't want to be called typical. They want to be called God.



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05 Dec 2010, 1:57 pm

lelia wrote:
I've been trying to remember the lecture I got, and since my hearing and understanding are so iffy, please forgive me if I got it wrong. I think he was referring to polls of doctors and other professions at conventions asking if they liked being referred to as neurotypical. If he was referring to polls of doctors, well of course they don't want to be called typical. They want to be called God.


:lol:


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05 Dec 2010, 2:35 pm

lelia wrote:
I've been trying to remember the lecture I got, and since my hearing and understanding are so iffy, please forgive me if I got it wrong. I think he was referring to polls of doctors and other professions at conventions asking if they liked being referred to as neurotypical. If he was referring to polls of doctors, well of course they don't want to be called typical. They want to be called God.


Oh jeez, most NT's don't even know what neurotypical means. So, how can they be offended? The ones that do know what it means only use it in reference to people on the spectrum.



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05 Dec 2010, 2:51 pm

was thinking about something. neurotypical could be used by any type of neurology, if it means "traits that are typical of a certain neurology".... if it's supposed to mean "typical neurology for the species" there could be a better word...
i could say "i'm pretty typical for an AS", does that not make me autistically neurotypical? or just typical. am i talking for nothing? pretty much.



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05 Dec 2010, 2:51 pm

Janissy wrote:
Titangeek wrote:
if there is an NT (no offense intended) reading this thread, could you plz chime in on this and set strait weather this is offensive.


I am NT and don't find the term offensive. If somebody says, "NTs are all so stupid" or "NTs are all so mean" then that's offensive (and it has been said in various threads) but it is the "stupid" and "mean" that are offensive, not "NT". But most of the time when people use the term it is just used to differentiate those on the autism spectrum from those not (except when semantics arguments break out and somebody says, "how is being bipolar 'typical'? Are they NT?" or something like that. Threads where somebody says "I'm AS but my brother is NT" or "why do NTs enjoy small talk?" are completely inoffensive.

What I find most interesting about this whole thread is the reason that the group leader (who is on the spectrum) gave for why it should not be used. He said that nobody wants to be considered "typical". It's a very revealing value judgement. Although "normal is boring" may be the motto of WrongPlanet (more or less), to many people (who have never heard the term "neurotypical" unless they have a family member on the spectrum or work in the field, and sometimes not even then), there is nothing inherently wrong with being a fairly typical member of a group. He assumes that NT/non-autistic people are offended if you say that they are similar in many ways to other people. But he's wrong. He's taken his own negative value judgement of "typical" and projected it on to NT people. It's the exact same projection error NT people make when assuming that a non-verbal autistic person is "trapped". Oh the irony.


Ha! Yeah, someone should tell Roger that they don't mind...

But if Roger wants us all to scrub that word, I propose the following alternatives

Neuro-regular
Neuro-average
Neuro-standard
Neuro-normal


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05 Dec 2010, 2:53 pm

neuro-normal :lol: :lol:

i propose we call them "weirdoes"....what?



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05 Dec 2010, 4:06 pm

ediself wrote:

i propose we call them "weirdoes"....what?


:lol:


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05 Dec 2010, 4:09 pm

No, we ought to call NTs muggles!



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05 Dec 2010, 4:11 pm

ediself wrote:
neuro-normal :lol: :lol:

i propose we call them "weirdoes"....what?


I already do with my aspie friends.


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05 Dec 2010, 4:13 pm

lelia wrote:
Did you know that labeling someone as NT is an insult? I was lectured for a long time by Roger Myers when he heard me use the term at an Asperger's support group.
I thought that I was simply naming a reality, but Roger pointed out that nobody wants to be "typical". Well, okay, so what will be the term I should use? I should say Non-spectrum, which I guess would be NS.
So there you go. I shall use the new term now.

But I'm still surprised that neurotypical is an insult. I don't consider AS to be an insult. New things to learn everyday.

If there were NTs in the group, they might think of it as an insult because maybe they have been called NT in a vehement way by someone with an ASD and people in the support group do not want to alienate people who aren't on the spectrum, or people who are and have loved ones who are not. What makes it an insult is the way it's said and the meaning behind it.



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05 Dec 2010, 4:45 pm

Titangeek wrote:
if there is an NT (no offense intended) reading this thread, could you plz chime in on this and set strait weather this is offensive.


like many words, depends on how its used and the intent behind it. often on these forums, and already in this thread, its used in an insulting manner. if its being used to imply a negative about a group of people rather than to neutrally say "non-autistic", then its insulting. when it appears as an insult, its quite often as a negative generalization, such as "NT's do X to autistics" or "all NTs are X", etc.

its also very often used inaccurately, as people use it to mean both non-autistic and neurologically typical, which are not the same thing. autism is not the only neurological difference out there, and the two words, neuro and typical put together, should not mean specifically non-autistic but rather someone with typical neurological development.

the use of the term itself bugs me and i would much rather see an accurate word used, NA for non-autistic or NS for non-spectrum, or whatever. i am often surprised and confused that a group of people with a neurological condition which has formal speech and an insistence on accuracy and facts as common traits prolifically use a word that is so inaccurate.

but thats based on my own anal-not-autistic-but-not-typical-either thinking =P


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