Diagnosing My Husband

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10 Years ago I met my husband and I quickly identified what I thought at the time was somewhat "quirky, eccentric" behaviour. He was very ordered and routine orientated. For a guy, his apartment was immaculate. In fact, he had not even used his wardrobe for 4 years, preferring to hang all his clothes on a dry cleaning rack in the other room ! He had certain obsessive issues to do with cleanliness. Most obvious of all, particularly as we began to socialise with friends/family was his obsession with certain topics. He will talk non-stop about soccer, or movies or actors. I can tell that the other person is wanting to move away from the subject but he does not seem to pick up these cues. I have been creative over the years in my methods to steer him away from conversations when I can see it is taking its toll on the listener. We don't go out much anymore. We moved countries 9 years ago and he has not made any close friends although I have encouraged him to do so.
Once our children came along his stress levels increased dramatically. Life has been difficult for a good 6-7 years although we do have periods (a few weeks maybe) where he is calmer. We have separated twice because he has been physically abusive to me (pushing, threatening).
I read about Aspergers a few months ago and I have not really been able to get it out of my mind. There are many aspects that fit with my husband and if he is an Aspie it would really help explain a lot to me and my daughter. She is now 10 and observes her father's unusual behaviour.
His "special interests" we have heard the same facts, stories, and lines from movies over and over again for year. He can recite dates, times, goals etc from soccer matches back in 1969.
Routine oriented and has a melt-down when things don't go to plan
Obsessive compulsive symptoms relating to cleaning, hygiene and checking the cooker
Depression (he has been on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds for a year)
Disappearing into the shed to just sit on his own and do nothing. (he is not a at all interested in cars, DIY or any other task that one
may undertake in a shed)
Talking to himself. When we ask him about this he denies it
Angry, loud, angry, swears a lot, verbal abuse, demanding (this is generally multiple times a day when things get disrupted or we "get in his way")
Jumpy and on edge, particularly if someone touches him and he is not expecting it. Then there are other times he accuses me or the kids of touching him....... and we haven't been anywhere near him
Paranoia that we are talking to him or about him. No-one can speak in the house, without him asking what we are saying
He is very dependent on me to manage day-to-day issues. He does work outside of the home and take care of the cooking and washing and some other cleaning duties around the house.
By his own admission, he is not career oriented, has no desire for challenges and/or excitement in his life. he works in a repetitive manual labour job and seems to be happy doing that as it is low stress for him.
He has trouble with "business type" conversations on the telephone and I often need to tell him step-by-step what he needs to say. He sounds monotone on the phone like he is reciting it off of a piece of paper. However, he is quite animated on phone calls to family or people that he knows.
Has little interest in the day-to-day activities of myself or the kids. I pretty much have to encourage him to communicate with the kids in regard to their school issues, friends, interests etc.
He did not notice when I started wearing an elbow brace on my arm due to "tennis elbow"
When I told him I had to go into hospital next month for a day, he did not ask me Why? He indicated that he could take me to the hospital and then proceeded to talk about garbage bags. When I asked him why he did not want to know why I was going into hospital he said he assumed it was because I had a breast screen 2 weeks ago. (incidentally, I don't have anything serious). However, it shocks me that someone would be so "matter of fact" about this.
As I write this he has decided to spend the night sleeping on the lounge. He has told me he can't go to bed because the bed is not pulled back ready for him to get into
In other respects he is very devoted to the family. Always ensuring that he contributes financially, does his share of the housework and is always around if we need help or are going on a family outing.

My children and I find it difficult to understand "where he is coming from" Particularly the last couple of years when I have been speaking to him, it feels like he is "not really with me in the conversation". Certainly there have been some upheavals over the last two years with me commencing full time work, part time study and some job changes for him which I don't think he easily coped with.
A psychologist who has been working with my husband for 9 months indicated that she believed him to be very stuck in his ways and really didn't know if or how he would change. She mentioned aspergers but it is not her area of expertise.
Does some of the above scenarios I have presented sound consistent with an autism spectrum disorder? I have spoken a little bit to my husband about this disorder and he agrees he can identify with some of it. He adamantly denies that he is selfish, although to myself and the kids his behaviour often feels like that to us.

I feel lonely at sometimes. I don't even know how to start explaining some of this stuff to my friends. My friends are supportive, but some of them just don't understand why I just don't leave the marriage permanently. Sometimes, I think I would like to come home from work to someone who asks me how my day has been. Instead, as soon as I walk in the door, I usually get a complete rundown of what he has done in the house, how difficult the kids have been and a request for me to clear the dining table for dinner. For years I kept questioning that if he was so unhappy living with all of us, why didn't he leave permanently. The couple of times we have separated I have had to arrange his accommodation at the local pub and a caravan park. He doesn't seem happy with us, but then he doesn't seem to have the skills or motivation to "go it alone" either.

Sorry for such a long post.

Tell him to see a psychiatrist.

Who prescribed the anti-depressant? That might be a good place to start. It sounds like he needs a thorough evaluation.

A psychiatrist diagnosed severe depressed. My husband has just advised me that he has taken himself off the anti-depressant and anti-anxiety medication. He just stopped it abruptly 3 weeks ago. I had no idea. he reckons he feels better for being off them but I have my doubts. 9 months ago I had to take him to hospital as he was suicidal. I don't want a repeat of that. It caused a lot of psychological problems for our kids, and I lived in constant fear. We all required counselling.
I will try to talk to him again, but it is difficult to find the right time.

Him getting off the meds will be best. Unless you've been on them, turned very suicidal yourself, turned aggressive then I'd advise you not to jump to the conclusion those meds are really that great.

He needs love right now. He must be battling on the inside. Have him take an aspie quiz. It will be of his own doing and he can see for himself.

http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

Lead him to water and see if he'll drink. Think of a way to broach the subject that will be least threatening to him, run down the symptoms and sell him on AS at least enough to pique his curiosity. Hopefully he'll look into it himself. It can't hurt to see how he behaves once he has some perspective.

You also didnt mention his childhood. That's another good place to look for clues. Also think about the behavior of his relatives. It's common for one side of the family to have fragments of AS behavior, if not the full range of traits.

For a moment, I thought you really meant to lead him to a glass of water. The next line cleared it up. Water does sound good. Thanks for mentioning it.

Since Aspergers cannot be cured you have to also question what is the point of having him diagnosed. A diagnosis will not solve anything. If you have problems between you, you need to work them out. Only you can decide whether you can continue to remain in the relationship. Do not buy the media hype in regards to anti medications. They have no idea at all of what causes depression, anxiety, etc. In order to get the drugs approved, they just have to produce a study in which people were described by the doctors as being better on them, then on placebo. In many cases it has taken 20 or more studies to get any such results and even then it was only for 4 weeks, after that there is no difference shown between those on the medications and those off them. The drug companies are extremely limited in what they can legally say about the drugs and in order to market them they pay doctors to say it for them, even though it is all false. The risk of suicide on drugs is about 5 times the rate as off them. If your husband needs help, then why not look to a psychologist who can talk to him, instead of expecting to find a pill to cure all your problems. There is no anti aspergers pill, and I am not aware of anyone with aspergers that would want to take it anyway. Just because you want him to have friends doesn't mean that he wants to have friends. If he does have aspergers it is all the more reason for you to accept him as he is. It is like you want to find something to blame for his problems and then cure him. You cannot cure aspergers it is a biological aspect of who he is. Some things can be done to try to help us to act normal, but the fact is we are happy as we are. If you don't want to pull the bed up for him, don't, let him live his own life and you life yours. You seem to be doing every single thing to look after him and then complain when he doesn't do anything for himself. How did he do these things BEFORE you got married. How did he go to bed, how did he manage his money, etc. It lis like you have walked into the relationship, taken over those things and he has willingly handed them over and now you are complaining about them. He did not move in with you straight from mommy and daddy and so how was he looking after himself before you began to look after him.

Oh bah! Yes it cannot be cured BUT if someone is living their whole life in a mental fog not quite sure why that is, it's more damaging than helpful. Those medications SUCK! Money, money money. Weaning off, distress. Alot of people just want to shove pills down people's throats instead of actual trouble shooting or figuring out that you need to develop these coping mechanisms that drugs just cannot do! Then you get people who become addicted to these drugs and defend them even after they end up hurting themselves or start having other problems on top of your original problems.

People like to tell you all the time you are confined to your diagnosis. Here take these drugs! They'll save you! I swear those hallucinations you have now, oh but it's way better than your original problem! Oh the weight gain? Oh much better than your original problem! Oh your new homicidal thoughts? Way better than what you did have? Oh you want to kill yourself now? Way better than what you had right?

You cannot cure it but you can help make it work for you instead of against you. Oh but that thought isn't allowed because it doesn't produce $$$$$$$$$

Wish there was a "Like" button on this forum.

Absolutely brilliant post, and incredibly accurate too. How can any doctor or anyone else possibly know if the original problem was worse than the one the peron is currently experiencing. ONLY the individual taking the medications can know that, and then they have no idea of what the med's are doing or WHY we need them in the first place. They are like diabetes for insulin, except they cause diabetes and do not cure any definciency, rather create one, where one did not previously exist. Even the American Psychaitrict Society has admitted there is NO chemical imbalance in the brain and that they have no evidence of any biological basis for any disorder, but we stilll need the drugs, even though they kill us in the process!

It is time we started to help people to help themselves, instead of blaming it all on something that does not exist and creating more problems along the way. That does not mean that there will never be a role for medication, but it has to be an individual decision to make on the basis of them being told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and them being able to weight up for themselves whether they are better than the original problem!! WHEN are they going to start to tell us the truth, which is that they know nothing, that most people do not do well on med's long term, there are NO reliable long term studies, but what we do know is that people who ween themselves off meds do better over the longer term. Sure there is a small group of about 5% of people who are prescribed them that do do well over the longer term, but we have no idea of how to tell who is in that 5%, and the fact that we are not in the 5% does not mean that we are doing something wrong.

Oh and if this side effect is a problem, just take this extra pill to cure it, you now have these thoughts, lets add this pill to the pile, Oh, another side effect, here's another pill, the pills no longer working, then we need to put some electricity into your brain to kill some brain cells and cause permanent memory impairment. BUT it is ALL so so so much better than what the original problem, even though they have no idea of what the orignal problem because the person we told that to is about 50 doctors ago!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!

bjcerceleb: to address some of your questions. the point of diagnosis is that it would provide an explanation to all of us in the family and allow us to understand each other better. I diagnosis of Aspergers would solve the issue in my mind as to whether he does have a condition that contributes to his angry outbursts and verbal abuse or whether he really is a narcissistic aggressive man who believes it is his right to name-call and demean his family in public places. I have read all the information and books about abusive people and he just does not seem to fully fit any of those profiles. It is because I do care and love him that I want to try and make this work.
Medication has its place in regards to depression. I have been on it myself. My husband was taken to hospital and sedated because of his suicidal/anxiety state. (this was before he started the meds). Since he commenced the medication he made some positive changes to his job situation, took up an exercise regime and stopped asking my permission to do things. Once the depression lifted, I was able to much better see his real personality. Stopping his medication abruptly without doctor advice poses health risks and is naturally a concern for me.
My husband has spent 9 months seeing a psychologist and I believe this has had some positive effect on the way he manages his life.
My post was not meant to come across as complaining about my husband. Rather I was providing factual information about his personality to see if others on the forum identified that these personality traits could be aspie. I am not looking to blame someone or something. Should I just assume his angry and abusive outbursts are by choice? I believe i owe it to him, our marriage and children to find out the real reasons behind his behaviour. Knowledge is power. having that knowledge will allow us all to make informed decisions for the future.
It is true my husband has been happy to take a back step and let me handle many things. And I am quite happy managing day to day things. As far as how he coped on his own before we met. Life for him was a lot less stressed then. He did not have the financial commitments, family house and garden that we have now. He did not have children or have to fit in around other people in the household. His can manage his finances on his own but does not really have any interest in it and his father took care of any DIY around his apartment that he lived in. My husband lived on microwave meals to avoid dirtying his new oven and stove top.

My husband's childhood was one of strict rules and regulations. My husband tells me, his mother did everything perfectly and his father yelled at the family if he wasn't happy with things. It was a traditional family. Dad worked, mum stayed home with the children. My mother-in-law's attitude to her son is "dismissive". She raises her eyebrows and rolls her eyes a lot when he is speaking and criticised him a lot in his younger years. They are not a very communicative family and hold in a lot of emotions. That are my observations anyway.
I hope some of the above clarifies things somewhat.

Cheers

Accept him and enjoy the clean house that you come home to, after a long day at work. As for the other things, I don't really have any advice. I don't like to impose myself on others in that way. Talk to him about the idea of getting help but don't force him to, if he doesn't want to. That would only make things worse.

Angry outbursts and verbal abuse should not be accepted and explained away by some condition. The fact is EVERYONE, regardless of their condition, can learn to better control their behaviour. It may be harder for some, but to say they have the right to abuse you because they have aspergers is not right either. If what he is doing is anyonying him and you then he needs to learn to manage it. A diagnosis is not going to enable him to learn to control his behaviour, it is something he has to do through plain hard work. A person with autism spectrum disorders can change parts of their behaviour. Some parts should be accepted as they are, others are very hard to change, but to say that someones angry and abusive outbursts are simply to be tolerated becuase they have XXX is then saying they have the right to go and kill anyone they do not like because they have XXX. Sure I find interaction with people incredibly difficult, sure I struggle to read body language, etc, but the fact is I have spent decades learning to do so. I will never do it well, nor wil it ever come easily to me, but I want to be able to understand how the world communicates.

Angry outbursts and verbal abuse and not signs and symptoms of aspergers or any other condtion on the spectrum. What we do have are language deficits, social deficits and restrictive interests. Just because they are socially deficit to in some way, does not mean they are abusive, and no condition is ever an excuse for abuse.

There is no doubt that medication helps some people, but do not assume that antidepressents helping you means they help everyone, as there is not one bit of scientific research to support that. While going off medications with medical advise is not ideal the over prescribing of them at present is also not ideal. Just because you liked how he was on medication does not mean that he liked it that way. The only person who can decide whether taking medication is better is the individual concerned. You are not your husband, you did not experience the side effects that he experienced, etc, etc. There is no way of being on these medications and not having side effects and the only person who can decide if the benefits outwiegh the side effects is the person on the medication.

I know someone who had scizophrenia. His halluciantions was that he saw bunnies everywhere and would constantly walk around them, and hence look odd. He NEVER told other people off for walking on them and nor did he ever hurt other people or himself. He was placed on medication which caused him to be so sedated he could barely walk one step, he was drooling all over the place and could not hold his head up. According to the doctors that was better than him seeing bunnies. How can they decide what is better. Sure his life would have been easier if he did not see the bunnies, but it was not made easier by not being able to walk, drooling so no one would go near him and not being able to lift his head up. The doctors said he needed to stay on the medication as it was so much better for him. BUT he decided that seeing bunnies was much better than the side effects of the said medication. Only he could decide what was and what was not a tolerable side effect and a doctors definition of improvement is not always equal to the individauls definition. Seeing bunnies did not make this person a risk to other people and it hardly made him a risk to himself. Let people decide for themselves whether side effects are tolerable. You are propably not even aware of half the side effects the drugs caused. You also cannot say that the medication alone was what allowed good things to happen. The fact is people do things good and bad all the time, and have good and bad days all the time it is a part of life.

A correct diagnosis allows one to focus the work in an efficient manner. An incorrect diagnosis can make things worse, no matter how much work is put into changing behavior.

Whether you go for the DX or not, I think it might be good to work out what you want the most from him, that he isn't doing now. Find the most important thing from the list, and see if you can get him to do it. Could be something like asking you how you day's been when you meet every day after work. I used to be lousy at that but once my wife had explained that it was important to her, it wasn't all that difficult for me to get into the habit. You'll probably have to reinforce the message a few times before it sticks. It's probably more difficult for an Aspie to make such changes, but there's nothing impossible about it. Aspies often relate well to the simple ethical concept of fair play, so it might be worth pointing out that you listen to him often enough, and he'd be worse off without that, so why not reciprocate.......just make sure you reassure him that you don't resent doing him the favour, but just want somebody to do it for you too.

The verbal abuse and pushing, most people would find that very hard to live with. Personally I'm usually able to let a lot of it wash over me without it affecting me, and I sometimes use that as a strength, because I think that people too often "jump on" an aggressive outburst, and it becomes the sole focus, when what really needs discussing is why anybody could feel so hurt and angry to need to act that way. If you can stay calm without distancing yourself from the issue, you might be able to calm him down and get him talking about what's really going on. Though I don't accept abuse as a way of life from anybody. I think I might tell him that although I was concerned about the causes of the anger, and happy to talk about better ways of expressing it, the abusive yelling must stop. After all, where does it get him? All he needs to do is to express his sentiments as they are - describing his experience accurately instead of just venting frustration - and you'd be able to respond appropriately.