Ever or Never Bring Up AS To Therapists?

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Today, I saw my therapist and explained my absolute social disconnect/unawareness/incompetence/shutdown, obsessive behaviors/hyperfocus/rigidity, 3-year-old mindset of total naivete/difficulty understanding other people's behaviors/motives, and extremely abnormal childhood. I have most of the traits of AS, most of the childhood ones (extreme) and many of the adulthood ones (getting worse by the minute). Basically, any therapist would be able to diagnose me if I were 5.

But I never once mentioned AS to her, because I wanted her unbiased professional opinion, just in case everything's all in my head. She kept consulting the DSM for different conditions like schizotypal personality disorder, then social anxiety disorder with physical symptoms that I don't have, then something else that had manic episodes. That was after I told her I once stayed up for 8 days straight hyperfocusing during finals week. In college, studying and learning were my obsessive interests. I took 7 math and science classes per term. I had to get special permission to do so. She kept flipping through the little silver book for different conditions. I never knew the DSM was so little. I imagined it as a huge dusty leatherbound tome.

Anyway, we ran out of time and didn't figure anything out, so she's going to call me tonight. Should I bring up AS to her then? What happens when you self-diagnose to the therapist? Is that going to bias them towards or against a condition? Is it bad form to "educate the professional"? Socially unacceptable? Does anyone have experience with this? Should I just say the words out loud and have her look through the book again? She's already hunting through the DSM for SOMETHING. I suspect that she's eliminated AS because I can sit in her office blathering about myself using facial expressions and hand gestures for 45 minutes while feeling that she's mistinterpreting everything I say as negative beliefs about myself that I am utterly unaware of or conditions that don't apply to me. I kept saying that I don't have those beliefs or symptoms. Also, I am female, 30, appears friendly and energetic in the way that a happy playful 3-year-old without negative beliefs would be friendly and energetic.

I thank my lucky stars for this forum. I thank everyone for replying to my previous excessive rant about CBT, sharing personal experience, and making me feel welcome and not insane.

Against. She'll tear the page out of the DSM if you do that. We are dumb. Never even mention that you have internet. I was asked 3 times "you have internet, right?" as if it was a mortal sin to educate yourself. They want to do all the thinking, let them think they are in control.

I see my therapist on Friday and I really want to bring AS up with her... but I think I may have better luck with your method and just describing the symptoms. Let her draw her own conclusions. Ugh. It's hard. I definitely feel your pain. Hopefully she'll come to the right conclusion and not just say "you're depressed, end of story."

You could also try talking about what kind of therapy you think you WOULD benefit from, if CBT isn't your thing. For example, there are social skills classes and other workshops... you could ask her whether you think you'd gain anything from them. It might help generate more discussion, at any rate.

It seems to me that if you don't mention AS to her there isn't much point in seeing her. After all, the idea seems to be occupying your thoughts a great deal.

PS. I found your post about CBT very interesting, thanks for that.

First off, I would like to read your post about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Yes, I would. Whereas, I think it has some potential if done with a light touch, if it's made into a damn religion, all rigid and dogmatic and right about everything, then it's not going to be much good.

And yes, you can educate your therapist. I'm a little surprised she said she was going to call you at home. Sounds like something if someone was on the verge of a breakdown and doesn't sound like you are, and/or if the therapist was going to get their medication. Is she seemingly young or inexperienced, and thus trying too hard?

just had a chuckle imagining you telling her: "Oh, i really feel like i have marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction, and it's really annoying!! "
maybe she will be able to put her finger in the right line then

I'd say, bring it up, but don't expect much. There is a good chance that the response will be: "So, tell me why you think you need a diagnosis."

Here's a link to my too long post about CBT: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt151900.html

It's probably not that educational, mostly an incoherent rant about my own cluelessness in social interactions and life in general. In the group, CBT was definitely a religion. The therapists were trained by David Burns. Around and around the circle we went. All those distortions. All those techniques. All the phantom beliefs that I believed 100% because the therapist told me I believed them 100%. I could never identify them myself and he always had to tell me. At the end, I always believed them 0% because that was how much I believed them in the first place. After the group, I gained the negative belief that "I am insane". I think therapy screwed me up more. I was merely dysfunctional before.

Or is that the actual goal of therapy? My mother just told me to quit all therapy and avoid all therapists and don't believe anything they tell me. I'm leaning towards it. I'll just go back to being "The Freak". In fact, I'm going to let it all fly now. Here comes "The Super Freak". No more faking, except I might write a handbook on the topic. Maybe a pop-up book with buttons for playing the conversations in different annoying voices. Maybe the pop-ups can be animatronic. And spontaneously combust. And all the people will be super creepy. Everyone will be a clown or one of those ventriloquism puppets. Or Chucky. Who spews tear gas out of his scars.

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

I once had a severe eye inflammation, and the eye surgeon got all pissy that I consulted the Horrifying Internets about the drug that he was gave me. It happened to cause anaphylactic shock. Then, he assembled a team of doctors to study and publish a scientific paper about "Eye Inflammation of the Century in Young Healthy Female Guinea Human" or something like that. Then, he wanted to cut open my eye and do what (?) before I fired him.

s**t, that's lousy. He should have viewed that as an opportunity to have some back and forth conversation.

Bring it up, but expect a very patronising response.

If you do have AS, its unlikely the therapy you get will be very useful to you until your autism is taken into account. As you've already experienced. Its going to be best in the long run if you do bring it up, but the intial response is probably going to be very hostile. You will almost certainly be asked why you want the label, so you need to have thought about that beforehand. And just make sure you're feeling very thick skinned that day!

I'd say bring it up, as a test of the therapist's suitability - if she refuses to discuss the matter rationally, she's failed the test. At least that way you'll know.

I brought up AS to a Relate counsellor, before I was diagnosed - she was quite helpful - gave me the AQ test and recommended that I push my GP hard for a DX. My only complaint was that she seemed to jump to conclusions, and kept telling my wife that this or that expectation was out of the question because of my condition......i.e. she didn't seem to want to wait for a proper diagnosis, and she didn't seem to know that the symptoms aren't hard and fast. She also thought that my employer would respond to a DX by putting me into a little room on my own.

I wouldn't take up with any therapist who didn't accept my condition from the start, though as I've got a DX, it's obviously a lot easier for me to argue for that.

I brought it up with my councilor on the third day of seeing her, week later she told me she has put in an assesment for me. I think sometimes it is the best thing you can do, just make sure you want their opinion though first as you are not compitant fully with your opinion. this way they can still be in control and not become biased, or feel you are being biased.

Honestly, it may be worth it to mention you may have either ADHD or be on the spectrum. I would say AS or Atypical (PDD-NOS), which sounds to be more what you have honestly. I would go into great deal of your childhood history, if you have not already done so.

The reason I mention this is while some therapist are on power trips, many are not. A wrong diagnosis is worse than than the right one. You can also always fire your therapist and find one that works.


I do think it is worth mentioning, because she does seem to be struggling figuring out the diagnosis.

That's kind of what I favor. A series of medium steps. And sometimes you can simply take it to the side (that is, firing the therapist is not the only option).

So, for me, a medium step, giving myself time to feel my reaction (some thinking, but primarily the feel-and-texture), and time to consider next steps and feel what medium step now feels promising.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a religion. One would hope that David Burns would have said, 'First off, don't make the damn thing a religion. Yeah, these methods that I have used have been helpful in some cases. Please don't make more of it than that.' But I guess, being popular and being a star are heady stuff. (He could actually be more of a star if he was a genuine builder of other people.)

I got the idea that CBT was merely one version of realistic optimism (of which of course there can be a number of versions). But maybe I've given it too much credit! Maybe they end up primarily waging war against 'catastrophizing' and other "incorrect" beliefs.

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About lousy group dynamics, at one meeting of the adult discussion group at the Unitarian Church, the topic was ethics. I brought up H&R Block where the client is not meaningfully informed of some real negatives of the bank products (including the possibility of third-party bank collection against this years expected tax refund). Later on, I talked about another workplace where they didn't have the standard accounting in place to keep honest people honest. One lady kind of went after me. I defended myself. Then a second and I think a third person criticized me. When I tried to defend myself, the 'moderator' put a hand on my foot (my legs were crossed) as if I was being the problem.

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A really good leader would welcome a nonbeliever or a skeptical as a living, breathing example that, no, you don't need to believe this across the board. Take of this what you find helpful and leave the rest. But such leaders are few and far between.

Which actually gives us an opportunity. I have actually gotten pretty good at skills of low-key leadership. I've said to myself, instead of doing a poor parody of passive skills such as "hanging out" which I'm not all that interested in anyway, why don't I develop the really good skills, such as positive leadership. Still patchy skills, but that's kind of okay. So many life situations have such a crying need for positive leadership that patchy skills often suffice.

LOL. This is what I dream of on a daily basis. If only. I wish to both live and work in this same room called "The Labartment". And have a defense perimeter in place to reject intruders of the unscheduled variety. Like a miniature version of the planet "Solaria" in Asimov's "Robot" series. Or like an 18th century aristocrat scientist playing with quicksilver all day everyday.



I said it felt Pollyannish and like sugarcoating everything. I think I pissed off the therapist. Oh no, and everyone else as well.



Totally agree. Have horrible social skills, but could become cult leader or dictator of a country. As long as there are people willing to follow. If not, there are always chemicals to brainwash people into becoming willing to follow.