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DandelionFireworks
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22 Mar 2011, 10:57 pm

NcNbl wrote:
DandelionFireworks wrote:
Some autism has been proven to be non-genetic. Also, have you ever heard of a de novo mutation? It means instead of just getting half your mother's genes and half your father's, you just kind of make up part of the sequence.

OMG what?! where can i learn these?! no i havent heard of that.. i'm a mutant now?! i always wanted to be an X-man but that's my childhood.. but i'm a very good mix and blend of both of my parents, physically and psychologically.. or their mix did this to me? but i was abused when i was a kid too though, from about 3 to 8-9 y/o. okay, am i having serious psychological identity issues now?


The only thing I'm sure has never caused autism ever is abuse, but it might cause issues. I'm not qualified to talk about that, but re: mutations, you're probably a mutant. So am I. Mutations occur really commonly. They only rarely cause anything noticeable because mostly they occur in the "junk" DNA (you have some DNA that says "make this protein and that protein and this other one if there's already this thing but not if there's none of it" but you also have a lot of DNA that basically says "bkhasdfasjknh,sahrhklwej.sjasdjkfsklae" or something similarly comprehensible). They also allow people to have different eye colors from their parents, even when they end up with a dominant trait and both parents had the recessive.

You can learn these things in a good high school biology course. I'm guessing you went to public school and didn't pay attention to the worthless, uninformative lessons.

So, the quick version of genetics (I know very little about this subject) is that there are four "bases" (A, T, C and G) and your DNA basically spells words out of sequences of three of these (each "word" is an amino acid), and then forms sentences (proteins) out of these words. You have two versions of each sentence, one from your mother and one from your father. And some sentences have an easier time getting what they want; these are dominant. The others have to shut up, basically. So if you got the same sentence both times, that's what you get. But if you got two different ones, the one that's louder (more dominant) is the one that gets used.

Some traits can be described in one sentence. But some traits are polygenic, which means they need several sentences. In the latter case, you can have varying amounts of the trait if you have only some of the sentences. So what daydreamer84 is saying is that if autism is a whole paragraph (like, "you have special interests. You don't like socializing. You like to stim. You don't like to make eye contact. You don't like loud noises."), then maybe you have only a few sentences.

But in order to make new cells (for instance, eggs and sperm), the DNA has to get copied out. Can you imagine being a scribe? Copying out everything needed to make a human being? You'd make mistakes. So maybe your parents both have the sentence "you like socializing," but your scribe read it wrong and said "you don't like socializing." (I highly doubt that I'm describing how autism actually works even if it is a polygenetic trait. It's not about stuff like stimming or special interests. It's about the way you process information.)

Also, since everyone has two and only passes on one, it's possible that each of your parents had a "you like to stim" sentence and a "you don't like to stim" sentence, but they both gave you the "you like to stim" version.

Anyway, you probably have mutations in your gibberish sentences. Like, somewhere along the line your mother's "ching-chang walla-walla bing-bang" turned into "ching-chang walla-walla beep boop." So yeah, you're a mutant, but mostly mutants don't grow claws or whatever it is the X-men do.

There's also the possibility that, like, there's a sentence that says "you could get autism if this stuff happens," and it doesn't happen to everyone with that gene so some of them are NT. There's also the fact that you can "turn off" genes (or turn them on). So you can, like, "mute" a gene if something happens. Then it stays muted in your kids, I think (I'm not sure), but of course the right trigger could turn it back on. For instance, chickens have the genes for teeth, but they're on "mute."

daydreamer84, that's really cool! I'm really interested in psychology! :D Are you going to be a psychologist?


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DandelionFireworks
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22 Mar 2011, 11:00 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
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Some Aspies find that grocery stores are hell on earth. I derive such an incredible enjoyment from a certain one... I'm really hoping it can stay in business... funny how intense a love that can be. But it does have a dark side: a cafe I went to a few times changed hands. I was so incredibly disappointed when I went there and found out it could never, ever be the same. AAAAAARRRGGGHHHH!! !! NOOOOOOOOO!! !! !

Hehe. There used to be a store like that in the town I live in. It had an amazing smell -- I think it was from a combination of exotic grains, nuts, and other things they sold from big open barrels. And it was always cool and quiet, and had those spinning ventilators in the roof that make flickering light-patterns on the floor. It was one of those places that had a very strong feeling of 'character' to it (which I would get totally immersed in as a kid).

And there was another one I liked for different reasons that was also bought out and changed, after many years in the community. :(

[end of tangent]


It really hurts not to be able to go back to a place, doesn't it?


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22 Mar 2011, 11:29 pm

What would be really cool, would be a convert. We could learn so much from someone who could directly compare the NT and AS perspectives directly from personal experience.


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daydreamer84
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22 Mar 2011, 11:32 pm

DandelionFireworks wrote:
NcNbl wrote:
DandelionFireworks wrote:
Some autism has been proven to be non-genetic. Also, have you ever heard of a de novo mutation? It means instead of just getting half your mother's genes and half your father's, you just kind of make up part of the sequence.

OMG what?! where can i learn these?! no i havent heard of that.. i'm a mutant now?! i always wanted to be an X-man but that's my childhood.. but i'm a very good mix and blend of both of my parents, physically and psychologically.. or their mix did this to me? but i was abused when i was a kid too though, from about 3 to 8-9 y/o. okay, am i having serious psychological identity issues now?


The only thing I'm sure has never caused autism ever is abuse, but it might cause issues. I'm not qualified to talk about that, but re: mutations, you're probably a mutant. So am I. Mutations occur really commonly. They only rarely cause anything noticeable because mostly they occur in the "junk" DNA (you have some DNA that says "make this protein and that protein and this other one if there's already this thing but not if there's none of it" but you also have a lot of DNA that basically says "bkhasdfasjknh,sahrhklwej.sjasdjkfsklae" or something similarly comprehensible). They also allow people to have different eye colors from their parents, even when they end up with a dominant trait and both parents had the recessive.

You can learn these things in a good high school biology course. I'm guessing you went to public school and didn't pay attention to the worthless, uninformative lessons.

So, the quick version of genetics (I know very little about this subject) is that there are four "bases" (A, T, C and G) and your DNA basically spells words out of sequences of three of these (each "word" is an amino acid), and then forms sentences (proteins) out of these words. You have two versions of each sentence, one from your mother and one from your father. And some sentences have an easier time getting what they want; these are dominant. The others have to shut up, basically. So if you got the same sentence both times, that's what you get. But if you got two different ones, the one that's louder (more dominant) is the one that gets used.

Some traits can be described in one sentence. But some traits are polygenic, which means they need several sentences. In the latter case, you can have varying amounts of the trait if you have only some of the sentences. So what daydreamer84 is saying is that if autism is a whole paragraph (like, "you have special interests. You don't like socializing. You like to stim. You don't like to make eye contact. You don't like loud noises."), then maybe you have only a few sentences.

But in order to make new cells (for instance, eggs and sperm), the DNA has to get copied out. Can you imagine being a scribe? Copying out everything needed to make a human being? You'd make mistakes. So maybe your parents both have the sentence "you like socializing," but your scribe read it wrong and said "you don't like socializing." (I highly doubt that I'm describing how autism actually works even if it is a polygenetic trait. It's not about stuff like stimming or special interests. It's about the way you process information.)

Also, since everyone has two and only passes on one, it's possible that each of your parents had a "you like to stim" sentence and a "you don't like to stim" sentence, but they both gave you the "you like to stim" version.

Anyway, you probably have mutations in your gibberish sentences. Like, somewhere along the line your mother's "ching-chang walla-walla bing-bang" turned into "ching-chang walla-walla beep boop." So yeah, you're a mutant, but mostly mutants don't grow claws or whatever it is the X-men do.

There's also the possibility that, like, there's a sentence that says "you could get autism if this stuff happens," and it doesn't happen to everyone with that gene so some of them are NT. There's also the fact that you can "turn off" genes (or turn them on). So you can, like, "mute" a gene if something happens. Then it stays muted in your kids, I think (I'm not sure), but of course the right trigger could turn it back on. For instance, chickens have the genes for teeth, but they're on "mute."

daydreamer84, that's really cool! I'm really interested in psychology! :D Are you going to be a psychologist?



That's a really good explanation. I like the word/sentence analogy (I think my bio prof last year used something like this with words and a reading frame but not the proteins as sentences). Interestingly, though "junk DNA" is not all junk! It serves some very important regulatory purposes (telling the genes to turn off or on or what to do). This was not known until recently (I only learned this last year in a intro to bio university course ). Mutations in non-coding DNA and RNA may be implicated in many disorders. Since only a very small percentage (around 1 or 2% ) of our genome code for genes and the rest is what was known as "junk DNA " it makes sense that it serves a purpose! Scientists just couldn't figure out what the majority of our DNA did so they assumed it was "junk"!

I don't think I'll be a psychologist because I've found it so difficult to get through this year doing an undergraduate thesis (in Canada (Toronto anyways) to get a 4 year undergrad in psych you have to write a thesis) that I really can't stand the thought of having to do a MA/PHD thesis. The difficulty mainly had to with getting along with my supervisor........he almost dropped me as a student. Anyways........it's so stressful and I really don't want to write another one. I'm looking for a program of study in which I can study something related to neuropsychology and autism but do a practical masters thesis (without a thesis). I was thinking of going into speech pathology .....maybe I could research speech and language in people with autism but I don't want to work as a clinician because I think my social difficulties might get in the way.



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22 Mar 2011, 11:46 pm

Verdandi wrote:
torako wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
this may be a first for autism but this is not a new phenominom.have your heard of body identity integrity disorder.this means people who want to be disabled usualy amputees and paraplegics.i have seen post on non specific disability forums where people amputated there own limbs.there is a website that specializes in this called transabled.org


body integrity identity disorder is just people who want *physical* disabilities. hence the "body integrity" part of the name. plus, it's not really people who just wish they were disabled because it would be "cool", it's a serious neurological disorder that affects the brain's "body map" and makes the affected person feel that their body is wrong because it does not have the impairment. it is often compared to gender identity disorder (transgender) because it is the same feeling of the body being 'wrong'.

please please PLEASE don't talk about things you don't know anything about.


I would argue it probably isn't the same feeling of the body being 'wrong' and that they should probably find a different way to explain it.


i would argue that as a person that is both transabled and transgender, that i have more authority on the subject than you, kthxbai.



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23 Mar 2011, 2:40 am

This reminds me a little of hearing people who join Deaf society because they love the language and the culture. Autistic culture is a subculture just like Deaf culture is; and I don't see why we can't have NT people in it. After all, we already have plenty of NT family members and spouses; so why not people who just like to hang out with autistics? What's wrong with that?


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23 Mar 2011, 3:10 am

Um, if autistic people have our own culture, why haven't I heard about it?


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23 Mar 2011, 3:45 am

Quote:
There's also the fact that you can "turn off" genes (or turn them on). So you can, like, "mute" a gene if something happens. Then it stays muted in your kids, I think (I'm not sure), but of course the right trigger could turn it back on. For instance, chickens have the genes for teeth, but they're on "mute."


Like Axlotls. They're actually advanced larvae whose "evolve into salamanders" gene has been muted, but if they're taken out of water for long enough it gets un-muted.


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23 Mar 2011, 5:10 am

OP: one of your biggest struggles would be the lack of logic in the way other people think and behave. For example, some or even many of the rules of successful socialising are counterintuitive. Also (in my case, anyway) it is often tempting to do things which are logical and make sense to to the aspie, even if they break rules and thus have unpleasant side-effects. One of my colleagues mentioned how he'd been to a cafe where all the staff had asperger's (it was at a special needs school). He asked for tea and was served hot chocolate, because hot chocolate was cheaper. :lol: It is very frustrating trying to understand the world in a logical way and having your efforts to do so repeatedly confounded.



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23 Mar 2011, 8:37 am

daydreamer84

Quote:
...very intense (exclusion of most other interests) and often narrow interests, rigid adherence to routines and a need for sameness "same clothes, same food etc" as well as stereotyped motor and sensory behaviours( such as dangling a sting in front of your face, rocking, flapping arms ect). Do you have any of these traits?

omg..... uhm.... very intense and narrow interest, yes. i am kinda currently very obsessed with AS, Aspies & how they are and my aspie; in order.. i keep talking about it to my family and friends. adherence to routines; though i could kinda turn it off, but if im not too aware or too conscious its what i'll be seen doing everytime. sameness; not much in clothing, i dont like wearing the same set of clothes or look in the same week hehe, except when i have a favorite piece of clothing or shoes. but with food; when i was a kid i only like to eat a very few kind of food, and up to now its still kinda like that but i could control it. i only like eating fried food, whether hotdog or spam, and/or pasta. whats dangling a sting in front of my face? i do the rocking when i stand up and bored, but i could stand straight but thats with effort.

Quote:
Do people in your family have traits of AS?

uhm yes.. but very few though.. most resembles adhd which i kinda do too.. so that kinda conflicts right?!

DandelionFireworks
Quote:
I'm guessing you went to public school and didn't pay attention to the worthless, uninformative lessons.

ehm.. i went to private catholic schools all through out.. so biology huh?! yep! i didnt pay attention there, i'm already bad with names of people i know. there are terms there that are so uncommon that it wont register to my brain. but i know genetics, i remember liking that subject for some reason i cant remember..

Quote:
Also, since everyone has two and only passes on one, it's possible that each of your parents had a "you like to stim" sentence and a "you don't like to stim" sentence, but they both gave you the "you like to stim" version.

i got the analogy..

Quote:
Anyway, you probably have mutations in your gibberish sentences. Like, somewhere along the line your mother's "ching-chang walla-walla bing-bang" turned into "ching-chang walla-walla beep boop." So yeah, you're a mutant, but mostly mutants don't grow claws or whatever it is the X-men do.


dangit! no weather control and cool stuffs?! but with de novo mutation, are you kinda saying that my mutation could also start the autism gene in my future bloodline? i feel this is so..

Both
i was planning to take up my MA in psych or counselling psych but i think i'll just do that when i move to australia or US, i'm still trying to decide where it will be easier to get my needs and wants. its so cool! you guys, or i mean, girls are now my psycho best friends!! :lol: hehe kidding.. no, because psychology is what i am so into right now as in crazy in to, and you kinda just spoke fluently and directly to my interest. :wtg:

CrinklyCrustacean
i like u'r username, i am now distracted from my thoughts.. hehe.. yeah, i heard trying to figure everything NT is exhausting and vice versa. actually trying to figure out anybody is potentially exhausting.. but not very much in my case than usual, i always feel like i have the physical and mental energy of four people.. but i know how to solve NTs very quickly and easily and i know how to break them too.. i dunno though if i could say the same towards aspies. i think i know how to get to people's person than psychology. get what i mean?


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23 Mar 2011, 11:18 am

I only speak for myself when I say this, but being 24 years old and still being a virgin, never been in a relationship, having no real friends, having no social life, having dwindling career prospects and an uncertain future, unable to get a good job because no employer wants to hire you, having no life outside being trapped in an endless cycle of special interests, lacking motivation and ambition outside your special interests, living in constant anxiety when you step out of your comfort zone, unable to complete school or college work by the deadline because you're so disorganised and lacking drive because you're focusing all your energy on your special interests, being easily frightened by sudden loud noises all your life, being frail both physcially and emotionally, being treated with disdain because people sense your vulnerability, having oblivious parents, being unable to relate to anyone around you and going through constant series of phases of depression and self-pity and lacking in self-confidence isn't that great, you know.



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23 Mar 2011, 11:45 am

Sirunus wrote:
I only speak for myself when I say this, but being 24 years old and still being a virgin, never been in a relationship, having no real friends, having no social life, having dwindling career prospects and an uncertain future, unable to get a good job because no employer wants to hire you, no life outside being trapped inside an endless cycle of special interests, lacking motivation and ambition outside your special interests, living in constant anxiety when you step put of your comfort zone, unable to complete school or college work by the deadline because you're so disorganised and lacking drive because you're focusing all your energy on your special interests, being easily frightened by sudden loud noises all your life, being frail both physcially and emotionally, being treated with disdain because people sense your vulnerability, having oblivious parents, being unable to relate to anyone around you and going through constant series of phases of depression and self-pity and lacking in self-confidence isn't that great, you know.

i know. i never said i wanted those.. but those are the ones i wish i could help with if only i knew what it is like. thats why i wished it, because i wish i could alleviate what could be afflicting you, and because being as someone who's concerned, it hurts to see another hurt in a way that i could never understand or might not even be able to help with. my wish actually has dual sides and is rooted first from admiration down to now sadness.. and that's the sad part of my wish.. like its so sad you cant help or rescue someone you care about because you dont know anything let alone how..


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23 Mar 2011, 12:27 pm

NcNbl wrote:
daydreamer84
Quote:
...very intense (exclusion of most other interests) and often narrow interests, rigid adherence to routines and a need for sameness "same clothes, same food etc" as well as stereotyped motor and sensory behaviours( such as dangling a sting in front of your face, rocking, flapping arms ect). Do you have any of these traits?

omg..... uhm.... very intense and narrow interest, yes. i am kinda currently very obsessed with AS, Aspies & how they are and my aspie; in order.. i keep talking about it to my family and friends. adherence to routines; though i could kinda turn it off, but if im not too aware or too conscious its what i'll be seen doing everytime. sameness; not much in clothing, i dont like wearing the same set of clothes or look in the same week hehe, except when i have a favorite piece of clothing or shoes. but with food; when i was a kid i only like to eat a very few kind of food, and up to now its still kinda like that but i could control it. i only like eating fried food, whether hotdog or spam, and/or pasta. whats dangling a sting in front of my face? i do the rocking when i stand up and bored, but i could stand straight but thats with effort.

Quote:
Do people in your family have traits of AS?

uhm yes.. but very few though.. most resembles adhd which i kinda do too.. so that kinda conflicts right?!

DandelionFireworks
Quote:
I'm guessing you went to public school and didn't pay attention to the worthless, uninformative lessons.

ehm.. i went to private catholic schools all through out.. so biology huh?! yep! i didnt pay attention there, i'm already bad with names of people i know. there are terms there that are so uncommon that it wont register to my brain. but i know genetics, i remember liking that subject for some reason i cant remember..

Quote:
Also, since everyone has two and only passes on one, it's possible that each of your parents had a "you like to stim" sentence and a "you don't like to stim" sentence, but they both gave you the "you like to stim" version.

i got the analogy..

Quote:
Anyway, you probably have mutations in your gibberish sentences. Like, somewhere along the line your mother's "ching-chang walla-walla bing-bang" turned into "ching-chang walla-walla beep boop." So yeah, you're a mutant, but mostly mutants don't grow claws or whatever it is the X-men do.


dangit! no weather control and cool stuffs?! but with de novo mutation, are you kinda saying that my mutation could also start the autism gene in my future bloodline? i feel this is so..

Both
i was planning to take up my MA in psych or counselling psych but i think i'll just do that when i move to australia or US, i'm still trying to decide where it will be easier to get my needs and wants. its so cool! you guys, or i mean, girls are now my psycho best friends!! :lol: hehe kidding.. no, because psychology is what i am so into right now as in crazy in to, and you kinda just spoke fluently and directly to my interest. :wtg:

CrinklyCrustacean
i like u'r username, i am now distracted from my thoughts.. hehe.. yeah, i heard trying to figure everything NT is exhausting and vice versa. actually trying to figure out anybody is potentially exhausting.. but not very much in my case than usual, i always feel like i have the physical and mental energy of four people.. but i know how to solve NTs very quickly and easily and i know how to break them too.. i dunno though if i could say the same towards aspies. i think i know how to get to people's person than psychology. get what i mean?


:lol: I have an intense interest in autism/AS right now too! Dangling a string in front of your face was just an example of a sensory stim. I played with a string constantly as a child....now I play with something that has the same look/feel as a string in private. I think I was meant to have been a cat! Yes there is a lot of diagnostic confusion with things like ADHD(some kinds of stimming could also be hyperactive fidgeting, children with ADHD often have social problems). ASD symptoms overlap with the symptoms of so many disorders….and ASD’s often co-occur with those same disorders….confusing!



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23 Mar 2011, 5:11 pm

NcNbl wrote:
i know. i never said i wanted those.. but those are the ones i wish i could help with if only i knew what it is like. thats why i wished it, because i wish i could alleviate what could be afflicting you, and because being as someone who's concerned, it hurts to see another hurt in a way that i could never understand or might not even be able to help with. my wish actually has dual sides and is rooted first from admiration down to now sadness.. and that's the sad part of my wish.. like its so sad you cant help or rescue someone you care about because you dont know anything let alone how..


Unfortunately the odds of inheriting all the desirable traits of Asperger's and none of the 'undesirable' ones is very few and far between. My Asperger's isn't as severe as some individuals on this site, but it seems apparent to me that I must have inherited most of the crap stuff and none of the good stuff. I have no notable talent or notable gift. I'm no genius, in fact I'm probably amongst the stupidest on this site. The only difference between me and a NT is the NT probably isn't spending too much time alone, whilst I'll drown in loneliness as I get older, meaningful to nobody.

The only way you can really help us is by changing the way NT's think. A lot of my problems have Asperger's at the bottom of it, and a lot of it is to do with society's disdain of those who are different. For me personally, a life with Asperger's is a miserable existence, and it seems that way for all aspies who don't have some profound talent or gift unless you're one of the aspies who can eventually be accepted and loved for who you are or you're one of the ones who are so distracted by your special interests that you're oblivious to all the things you're missing out on. For everyone else in between, conditional love is the most we'll ever get, and contempt is what we'll always get.

Attention is the light of the human soul, and sometimes I'm so starved of attention, I'll settle for hate. But hate will eventually eat me alive, stripping away my heart until there is nothing left.



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23 Mar 2011, 5:25 pm

You do sound like you have some traits.

Partly seconding what Sirunus says, but I don't think it HAS to be this way. If you really want to help us, when you see a "weirdo" or a "space case" or a "retard," don't mock them or judge them. When someone else mocks them and you're there, point out that they're judging this person on superficial appearance. Remember that sometimes appearances can be deceiving (like, looking "retarded" but being highly intelligent, or looking very intelligent but actually lacking rather basic cognitive abilities), remember that sometimes you can do something without having the abilities that ought to be necessary, like correct people's spelling and grammar without understanding words. If you're ever in a position to design a public space, avoid fluorescent lights. If you're ever in a position to interview candidates for jobs, don't assume they're untrustworthy or shy for not making eye contact. Boycott companies that give money to Autism Speaks. When people say stuff about autism and clearly don't know what they're talking about, correct them.

So if you want to help us, that's what you should do. Pretty easy. Pretty simple. You just have to remember to do it in the moment. That would all be really, really useful. Any of it would be good. So helping isn't something you wish you could do but don't know how. It's really simple. It's a whole bunch of little things. And if anyone ever says they want to help us, tell them the same stuff I just said.


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23 Mar 2011, 6:57 pm

Sirunus wrote:
I only speak for myself when I say this, but being 24 years old and still being a virgin, never been in a relationship, having no real friends, having no social life, having dwindling career prospects and an uncertain future, unable to get a good job because no employer wants to hire you, having no life outside being trapped in an endless cycle of special interests, lacking motivation and ambition outside your special interests, living in constant anxiety when you step out of your comfort zone, unable to complete school or college work by the deadline because you're so disorganised and lacking drive because you're focusing all your energy on your special interests, being easily frightened by sudden loud noises all your life, being frail both physcially and emotionally, being treated with disdain because people sense your vulnerability, having oblivious parents, being unable to relate to anyone around you and going through constant series of phases of depression and self-pity and lacking in self-confidence isn't that great, you know.


Even though I was Mr. Positive Poster that hit incredibly close to home.