Has anyone noticed what I think is irony....?

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I think it's ironic (I'm not sure about the word "irony", though) that so many "normal" people:

1) "Insist on sameness in, and adherence to" the "ritualistic behavior" that they engage in during social situations--rituals which, I might add, seem to lack a "functional purpose", given that direct communication could accomplish the social goals of showing respect and concern for the other person's feelings and achieving shared understanding just as well as all the arbitrary, symbolic social niceties and figurative language of social conventions. (I'm told that the social goals above are supposed to be achieved by using much of the indirect language and seemingly pointless actions demanded by social conventions).

2) Often display a degree of "inflexible/rigid thinking" about social conventions that defies logic.

3) Display serious deficits in "empathy" (note: I don't consider pity to be the same as empathy) and "have profound difficulty understanding the concept of 'other' minds." They seem "unable to imagine thoughts and feelings beyond their own" when those thoughts and feelings belong to people who aren't "normal" or who come from a vastly different background---this seems to be the most likely reason that they have "significant difficulty with predicting and interpreting the behavior/words of" those who are not like them.

I don't really have a point to make except to point out that the same words used to describe the behavior of folks on the autism spectrum from a neurotypical point of view can be turned around (my thoughts are still coalescing).... thoughts, anybody?

I agree 100%, and I'm often astounded by the hypocrisy of the DSM criteria statements. The only differences in the contexts you state are the focus of the subject matter (interests vs. people).

I have considered the points you make myself and I have to say I agree with them!

Unfortunately NTs presently dominate society because they are greater in number and so they continue to label anything that is different as abnormal. If AS people were greater in number to the point where they were the dominant mindset in society they would be considered to be 'normal' whilst the NT's would be the abnormal ones.

One thing I have serious problems with, introducing myself. I never say to anyone "Hi, my name is ___________." It's something I never do. I don't know why I don't do it, I just never have and when I say never, I mean NEVER unless someone shakes my hand first and asks me my name or someone I know introduces me to others. The thing is, I don't even think about it most the time. I am thinking about it now because what you typed reminded me of it, but, when I am out and about I will totally forget to do it like always.
Do NTs do this instinctively?
I also know people who give out their phone number when they meet new people. That's another thing I don't do.
If all of us started doing these things, it might help. I just don't have the nerve.

I am not officially diagnosed with an ASD so technically, although I suspect I may have an ASD, I could still be an NT. If I am I can tell you that I find neither of those things to be instinctive! I am known for launching straight into conversations whilst forgetting the introductions and small talk completely. Well, when I do actually speak. Most of the time I stand there quietly and adopt the smile and nod technique whilst my mind wanders off to think about more interesting things. Just don't smile in the wrong place, it gets you into trouble! Neither do I give my phone number out to people I have just met, unless I am very drunk or something and they ask for it...I have not consumed alcohol in years though.

As for other NTs...I don't know as I tend to be a bit on the weird side so...I can't really speak for them. Most people confuse me.

It's definitely not instinctive to me either. I have to remind myself that people expect me to do such things. Unfortunately I have yet to successfully remind myself once.

I actually agree with everything you have said.

as do I!

I noticed this a long time ago. There was a member of the 'care' staff at the school I used to go to who fit the diagnostic criteria quite a bit; she was the most annoying member of staff, as she used to insist that everyone conform to the 'social rules'. I suspect she may have had Aspergers, which manifested itself as the most extreme Entie traits....

I agree with all 3 points.

Good point! I was having trouble fitting the examples into applicable categories (interests vs. people) for broader comparison.



Very true! I don't know why one group of humanity has to dominate



I don't introduce myself either--it just doesn't occur to me....it sometimes takes me a second to figure out why someone is extending their hand to me since handshakes are not something I ever think to offer. I also forget to say "how are you?" as part of the greeting (it's not something I naturally ask unless I'm actually wondering how they are and expecting them to answer honestly), and often I forget to say goodbye to people when a conversation/interaction is over--I just leave (I don't do this on the phone, though....at least not often).

I never give out my phone number unless it's asked for by somebody who needs/wants to make plans with me or talk to me about something later.

"how Are you" is one of my least favorite things to be asked..it always raises my hackels..especially when asked by complete stranger...or completely out of nowhere or what-have-you...the phrase drives me crazy..

Well, to avoid repeating the same phrases already overly stated, I have to say that I do not disagree!

It seems such a waste of breath repeating the same formalities over and over again, generally the rhetorical question of "how are you today?" Generally speaking, most people who ask that question do NOT want an honest answer! The moment they hear "well, to be honest....." they have already turned their own back and and walking away at a rapid pace (especially if they have had previous experience with my honest and unpadded responses). While I don't have SERIOUS issues with introductions, it is the awkward moments following my introduction in which I feel myself shrink to about 3 inches while the static in the back of my head drowns out everything else. Yeah, I realize I have anxiety issues.... I know it's not an all-encompassing social phobia as I can perform music in front of large audiences with no problem. I'm also rather good at lecturing, but I tend to get overly technical and when I get excited, I talk WAAAAAY too fast.

Whenever someone asks "how are you," I reply "fine." It's standard with me. Maybe the way I say it leads others to believe I don't wish to converse because that's usually where the conversation stops. That, and I don't make eye contact when I talk to them. It's probably why most of them stop talking at that point. When I was talking to the clerk the other day, I managed some eye contact when it was apparent she wanted to talk to me and seemed friendly. Once that started, it was easier to keep the conversation going. I have a hard time getting past the first hurdle.

On my second visit to my therapsit she asked 'How are you?". I said 'Good.' She smiled said she was glad and continued up the steps. When she reached the top landing she looked back to me and asked 'Is that just a stock answer or are you actually happy?'

I was pleased.

I told her "It's a stock answer. People don't really ask that question to get a real answer." She smiled and pointed at herself... 'Therapist here."

The "How are you?" question doesn't bug me like it used to. It used to drive me nuts because it seemed like such a stupid non-question and I could never figure out who meant it and who didn't.....or why/what exactly they were asking.

now I just assume virtually nobody actually wants a real answer so the question doesn't really register anymore. I answer on autopilot or I don't answer at all.