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obichris
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15 Jun 2011, 1:21 pm

Found this to be very true. Great article!

http://jerrybrito.org/post/6114304704/t ... introverts



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15 Jun 2011, 1:48 pm

Great article indeed.

I think people have said every single one of these to me at one time or another.

Myth #9 is perhaps most irritating....I relax and have fun like everyone else....I just do it AT HOME.



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15 Jun 2011, 2:35 pm

Nice to read. But it seems on some points written to deny autism and on other points seem to confirm it.

Point 9 is too true indeed!



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15 Jun 2011, 2:58 pm

Great article! I should show it to certain people in my life, who don't seem to understand why socializing is so exhausting for me and why I need to "recharge" after engaging in it.



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15 Jun 2011, 3:12 pm

deffiently saving this one.

I do have a small disagreement with #9. I'm a total adrenaline junkie, I might not want to do that stuff as often, but it doesn't mean I don't like it.


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obichris
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15 Jun 2011, 4:01 pm

After exploring the source article I found a little addition that was left our in this version. I have included it below:

Quote:
“You cannot escape us, and to change us would lead to your demise.” <-- I made that up. I'm a screenwriter.

It can be terribly destructive for an Introvert to deny themselves in order to get along in an Extrovert-Dominant World. Like other minorities, Introverts can end up hating themselves and others because of the differences. If you think you are an Introvert, I recommend you research the topic and seek out other Introverts to compare notes. The burden is not entirely on Introverts to try and become "normal." Extroverts need to recognize and respect us, and we also need to respect ourselves.


Source: http://www.carlkingcreative.com/10-myth ... introverts

I found it interesting that he describes all of this in the context of being an Introvert. It very closely describes the symtoms experienced by many on the Autism Spectrum but without the true autistic traits.

On a related note, the DSM-V is looking to make Introversion, called Detachment, one of six dimensional trait domains for diagnosis of personality disorders. This will lead to individualized diagnosis of PDs and no more PD-NOS catch-all.

Detachment: http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/P ... x?rid=473#
Personality Traits: http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/p ... px?rid=470
Personality Disorder (DSM-V): http://www.dsm5.org/proposedrevision/Pa ... rders.aspx
Related Article: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sel ... verts-nuts

Given the common statement that "If you have meet one aspie, you have meet only one aspie", do you think it would be beneficial for Asperger's Syndrome to be changed to this model as well? It seems we are going the other direction currently in DSM-V by lumping AS in with ASD/HFA.



Aldran
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15 Jun 2011, 4:42 pm

The last poster did some digging, but missed something Id like to point out:

Quote:
So here are a few common misconceptions about Introverts (I put this list together myself, some of them are things I actually believed):
- http://www.carlkingcreative.com/10-myth ... introverts 1/2 way down the page, just before his "list".

I actually disagree with what he says in his list. Many of his statements are very broad or make (IMHO) un-informed assumptions. This could just be a case of poor wording on his part, but probably the single thing I dislike the most is that he seems to lump all intorverts up together, regardless of their reasons for being introverted in the first place. To be honest, his list could have been written for alot of people that blame their social inadequacy or problems on other issues, such as being on the spectrum, having a disability, or maybe possibly being a 3 eyed mutant...... IE, I find his list too broad and general to describe his own experiences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversi ... ion#Causes

To this day, nobody is quite sure what directly causes introversion, extroversion, or the rare ambivert. Personally I think they tend to boil down a series of choices and feelings that come around as a result of positive or negative experiences through life.

Regardless though, I think his personal list doesn't do his book recommendation much good. And as the original link was a borrowed copy from this guy's blog, I really can't say it makes my heart feel warm that Blogger Inaccuracy is so easy to proliferate. All I can say is, CHECK YOUR SOURCES!

Finally I didn't really care for his assumption that introverts are all some kind of united front of people that hes a part of simply for being introverted..... Im introverted for my own reasons, not all of which I know about or understand, but some of which I know I share with others, here and elsewhere, and though some were definitely the results of choices I made in my life, others I wonder about and am still looking for evidence to explain.

Thank you for reading if you have



obichris
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15 Jun 2011, 5:21 pm

@Aldran

The only part I didn't agree with:

Quote:
“You cannot escape us, and to change us would lead to your demise.” <-- I made that up. I'm a screenwriter.


As for the list, I believe many of these myth do exist about introverts and I think he does a good job of helping people see the other side.



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15 Jun 2011, 5:50 pm

Most people base estimates of introverts in the US population based on old studies in the 60's that indicate about 25% of the population are introverts. More recent studies indicate that introverts may slightly edge extroverts as linked below:

However, there is a spectrum of introversion/extroversion personality traits with some being more introverted than extroverted and some close to the middle. Interestingly our society has a whole is becoming more introverted than it was in the 60's; there may be some natural adjustment based on environmental factors. Cultures that are more introverted by nature tend to have larger percentage of people that score as introverts, so it appears that genetics and environment play a big role in this.

Perhaps we notice the extroverts more because they are loud and make themselves known, but from statistics it doesn't appear that they have a numerical advantage in the US. And it appears that introverts are the clear majority in other countries.

Perhaps in countries that have a more introverted culture, it may be easier for introverts to feel accepted, and the same problems with socialization may not be as apparent. Environment, plays a significant role in where introversion or extroversion is of advantage.

http://www.thoughtful-self-improvement.com/percentage-of-introverts.html

Quote:
The real number based on the first stratified random sample by the Myers-Briggs organization in 1998 showed Introverts 50.7% and Extroverts 49.3% of the USA.

How can introverts believe it's 25% when it's really 50%? Well, it's a matter of perspective. Most introverts asking this question are very strongly introverted. If you are ever on the extreme end of something, even moderates look strongly the opposite to you.

Remember the Introvert Extrovert difference is on a continuum with characteristics overlapping and merging with no real decisive difference between one point on the continuum and the next. Look at the color bar. Can you tell exactly where one color stops and the next begins? No, Of course not.

Everyone spends time being an extrovert and time being an introvert. Remember, it's a Preference. Do you prefer the world of ideas and your own inner thoughts? Or the outer world of people and things?


Research indicates the biological component of introversion is determined by how humans react to dopamine; some get a bigger reward from extroverted behavior than others; and again, there are so many other factors involved. There really is no such thing as neurotypical, only one broad spectrum of humans.



Kon
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15 Jun 2011, 6:06 pm

I make most introverts look extroverted. What's weird though is I'm often "louder" than them. I'm more introverted and yet I tend to be more unihibited in certain stuff and around some people.



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15 Jun 2011, 6:13 pm

Quote:
Introverts typically relax at home or in nature, not in busy public places. Introverts are not thrill seekers and adrenaline junkies. If there is too much talking and noise going on, they shut down. Their brains are too sensitive to the neurotransmitter called Dopamine. Introverts and Extroverts have different dominant neuro-pathways. Just look it up.


Thats quite interesting!



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15 Jun 2011, 6:40 pm

Kon wrote:
I make most introverts look extroverted. What's weird though is I'm often "louder" than them. I'm more introverted and yet I tend to be more unihibited in certain stuff and around some people.


Apparently you have a touch of extroversion to go along with your introversion.

Depression can be a problem with people that are extremely extroverted. And when the person is depressed they likely would display traits of introversion. The spectrum of human personality and behavior is too complicated to make an educated guess about many peoples genetic propensity; when environmental differences take hold change happens, sometimes, like in your case, in the direction of extroversion, but the same holds true for an extrovert in the opposite direction, depending on the environmental circumstances.

I have an extremely hard time with the idea of "neurotypical" as opposed to people that have a diagnosis on the Autism Spectrum. In my opinion all humans are neurodiverse with elements of disability and giftedness. Science seems to support this suggestion.

Interestingly too, science suggests that extroverts are more emotional and have strong sensory responses. I speculate that while many diagnosed on the Autism spectrum may be introverted in personality, there are some that are extroverted in personality; they just have a harder time interacting, than others. I think it makes it tricky to diagnose ADHD as opposed to Autism; the two can be so intertwined. An Autistic person with ADHD may be fueled to interact inappropriately and an autistic person without it may not be fueled to interact much at all.

Even more interesting to me are all the genetic studies that show origins in the same defective genes that may play a part in Autism, Schizophrenia, Bi-Polar, and ADHD.

It reminds me of many of the statements that Annbuend has made on this site, indicating that the diagnoses are one big mix of issues with no clear boundries.

But we have to set boundries somewhere, otherwise it's all chaos.

I'm glad I'm not a psychiatrist.



Aldran
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15 Jun 2011, 6:49 pm

Alright, let me clarify:

Its not that he made a list of myths. I agree there are alot of "myths" regarding introverts and anyone below a certain "Social Level" in general. I would also agree that some of his points match my experiences, and that most of his points match further information that I've read and seen. Rather, my issue is what he said about each "myth", and I was trying to point out that he sited no research, no data, just created a list of myths from god only knows what. If he wants to create a list of Myths, thats fine, but he presents them as "Top 10".... Gee, how acceptably mainstream (sarcasm).... Now, Ill admit that the Creator of the list didn't bill it as a "Top 10", but my point about checking sources stands. The really sad part is that if you look on the original Blog link, something like 20 more people right there in the comments section "reblogged" this fictitious "Top Ten list" (The list might be valid as a straight list, but certainly not as any "Top 10 list").

Getting to that Creator....

Quote:
A section of Laney’s book maps out the human brain and explains how neuro-transmitters follow different dominant paths in the nervous systems of Introverts and Extroverts. If the science behind the book is correct, it turns out that Introverts are people who are over-sensitive to Dopamine, so too much external stimulation overdoses and exhausts them. Conversely, Extroverts can’t get enough Dopamine, and they require Adrenaline for their brains to create it. Extroverts also have a shorter pathway and less blood-flow to the brain. The messages of an Extrovert’s nervous system mostly bypass the Broca’s area in the frontal lobe, which is where a large portion of contemplation takes place.
- http://www.carlkingcreative.com/10-myth ... introverts

The problem with "a little information" is that its often more dangerous then no information at all. If hed left this paragraph out of what he wrote, and allowed people to find their own reasons for introversion (Because there are more then one, and they're not extremely well understood as yet, PLEASE go google it, or at least look at wikipedia), at least he wouldn't be suggesting that Dopamine addiction or lack there of might be the sole/only reason people are introverted/extroverted. It could be that Dopamine is the sole deciding factor in Introversion/Extroversion, but what causes it? Choice? Hard wiring? Experiences? Memories? Genetics? Mental/Neurological Disorders?

Quote:
Biological factors

The relative importance of nature versus environment in determining the level of extraversion is controversial and the focus of many studies. Twin studies find a genetic component of 39% to 58%. In terms of the environmental component, the shared family environment appears to be far less important than individual environmental factors that are not shared between siblings.[13]
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversi ... troversion

At the very least, he puts almost as a foot note at the very bottom of his article a suggestion for further reading and research..... Then he goes and puts a plug for his own book.... But again, this is one the biggest issues I have with blogging, its too easy for so many people to spread inaccurate or less then useful information. I just spent 15 minutes digging for an article I heard on NPR where, IIRC, the Anchor of the News Station that originally reported the "Mass Grave" in texas recently that turned out to be false pretty much fingered the blame for the widespread reporting of it at the Sherriff Deputy in charge, AND Blogging, but couldn't find it. NPR had a 30 minute discussion of how such bad information managed to get world wide coverage in a matter of hours, and the conclusion that that program seemed to come to was that A;, Cops shouldn't tip anyone off about finds claimed by a psychic before they're verified, and B;, in an age where almost every News Agency employee, and many law enforcement employees have their own blogs, some institutional rules being implemented to stop the spread of rumor and unconfirmed belief would be a good idea.

Finally, I think I probably wouldn't have even posted here if it had just been a discussion about "Myths about Introverts" as the title claimed (A rather nebulous topic in my minds eye because its a discussion of the views of a Group of people that dont seem well represented here, but I could see it happening with enough data). Instead I looked and discovered "just another guy" making broad generalizations about something he apparently couldn't be bothered to do any research beyond reading his little book, and couldn't even be bothered to quote that verbatim..... The worst of it all in my opinion, is that he adds, what I can only guess, are either his own conclusions, or the conclusions of a book, which probably at least should have made a reference to the fact that theres more to be said then what this one book does.

Anyway, hope that this does actually clarify my earlier post some.

Edited for Grammar.



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15 Jun 2011, 7:03 pm

aghogday wrote:
Kon wrote:
I make most introverts look extroverted. What's weird though is I'm often "louder" than them. I'm more introverted and yet I tend to be more unihibited in certain stuff and around some people.


Apparently you have a touch of extroversion to go along with your introversion.


I think it may be because I so rarely hang out with people or need them that when I do see them, I kind am too loud, I think. But it doesn't last for very long. I get exhausted and prefer some time off. It kind of feels like sex. If you withold sex for a while it it makes it better when you do have it. If you do it everyday, it gets boring. I think it's one of the reasons why I would hate to work in a field that involves my obsessions/interests. It would be like getting paid for having sex. After a short while I'd hate it.



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15 Jun 2011, 7:35 pm

Kon wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Kon wrote:
I make most introverts look extroverted. What's weird though is I'm often "louder" than them. I'm more introverted and yet I tend to be more unihibited in certain stuff and around some people.


Apparently you have a touch of extroversion to go along with your introversion.


I think it may be because I so rarely hang out with people or need them that when I do see them, I kind am too loud, I think. But it doesn't last for very long. I get exhausted and prefer some time off. It kind of feels like sex. If you withold sex for a while it it makes it better when you do have it. If you do it everyday, it gets boring. I think it's one of the reasons why I would hate to work in a field that involves my obsessions/interests. It would be like getting paid for having sex. After a short while I'd hate it.


The pitfalls of oversatiation. There is so much instant gratification availble today, it is easy to get bored and frustrated, because there is not as much time to look forward to the next event. A possible cause of lower attention spans and the loss of patience, more evident today in society, where the speed of life is in fast forward for many.

Because instant gratification is directly related to dopamine, society today, though one more of individual pursuit, is extremely stimulating, compared by historical measure. It makes sense that extroverts would be able to handle the excess stimulation better than introverts. The "extreme world theory of Autism" isn't hard to understand from this viewpoint.



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15 Jun 2011, 7:45 pm

It seems a lot of these myths are actually true of me.

Am i alone?


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