non verbal autistics on the forums?

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are there any WP posters here who are non verbal?

if someone is non verbal are they able to be adept enough to use something like a forum?

if not, who are the guys who are the furtherest down the spectrum and can still participate in online discussions?

There are non-verbal autistic people who read and post here. I can think of two or three offhand - well, I can think of two and I have vague recollections of a third.

I have read from a few people that this forum is not perceived as accepting or friendly to autistic people who might be described as "low-functioning" and thus I suspect many who come here either don't participate much or ultimately leave for that reason. I can think of one who explicitly said she did not really identify with much of what she reads here, and doesn't post much, for example.

Many of the comments I've seen here over the past several months definitely read to me as supporting everything I said in the above paragraph, especially the lack of acceptance and friendliness. The other day, for example, I saw someone say that Aspies are not deficient, but LFA people are (I can dig up the thread if I have to). And when discussion of a cure comes up, there tends to be an attitude that AS/HFA can decide for ourselves, but LFA must still be cured for their own good (without any input or feedback from them - even though many might very well choose a cure themselves, the idea that it's up to others to decide for them is pretty deeply patronizing).

I don't really agree with HFA and LFA terminology, but it's hard to refer to the concepts I need without using the terms, although I suspect the terms themselves may also contribute to the environment.

that is incredibly exciting that i could talk to non verbal guys on here. thanks for the very interesting info. they're in a totally different world and this actually enables us to connect with them.

if they don't generally hang out on WP, where do they go? is there a forum that is more friendly to the lower end of the spectrum?

it is rather ironic that the LFA's don't feel accepted here, yet the HFA's complain about being accepted by NT's. Kind of a double standard by some?

Agreed. I think in the past I have been a little discriminatory towards LFA's. They have feelings too. Sometimes I get way too wrapped up with being able to blend in (with mixed success) as an NT.

I don't really know where they go specifically. I do know some blog as well.

Also, nonverbal doesn't always mean "low-functioning," although people tend to make a lot of wrong assumptions about people who do not speak.

I am non-verbal. Verdandi is partially right, in that this is not a very friendly place for those deemed "less-functioning". Interesting to read, but not a place I'm comfortable in. It is, however, not a matter of being accepted and it isn't because people here are not accepting. I will occasionally post here when someone asks about nonverbal autistics. I don't communicate with others much beyond that either online or in person, it usually takes deliberate effort and direct questions to get a response from me.

You are right about it being a "totally different world", I think, if you expect to find a forum where people like me would be. Maybe others are different, that I don't have any way of knowing.

I think I misremembered how it had been stated in the past, and I probably inserted "accepting" because "acceptance" comes up a lot in other conversations I have in other contexts, and I'm used to it being part of that sort of statement. I will remember for future reference.

Thank you for the clarification.

I'm partially verbal, which ranges from complex echolalia to simple echolalia to no words or even sounds at all. I cannot speak new thoughts without having heard someone else speak them or without typing them first.

Oh, ETA: Was it me that said the comment about not having much in common with people here? I know I've said that, and that's the main reason I'm pretty quiet here; I simply don't have anything to contribute as I deal with different things than most people here do.

As far as the cure issue... it should be up to each person and family. Who are you to say that I "need" to be cured? No offense, but you're no one. Who am I to say that no one needs to be cured? Again, no one! As far as actually taking a cure... I'm quite happy and don't feel the need to change, BUT, I cost my family and the country a ton of money so that I CAN function, and that's not fair... not to mention the stress my mom is under. All that said, thus far there IS no cure and it's really a nonissue.

I have come across non-verbal people on this site before. You often can't tell them apart from the verbal unless they explicitly say so themselves that they are NV. I have to say though I can see why they don't like it here too much because some people on here can be quite judgemental of spelling and grammatical mistakes, which might be a bit more common with LFA/NV people. I personally welcome everyone here verbal or not.

Also on the cure thing, I personally would love a cure, but I don't go telling other people they should be cured, because it's up to them. I think to decide what is right for someone who is NV is often wrong because they might not want what is being chosen for them.

It might have been. I know I've seen comments like that more than once, and I do pay attention to your posts.



Yeah, it really is a nonissue so I don't even really care about cure talk, even when I participate. That was one example of the kinds of things that get said, and of course it's not anyone's business, but there's a pattern of comments like that on a variety of topics.

(by the way, if I came across as saying that anyone needs to be cured, I apologize)

I have a friend who's non-verbal, but his mom is on here instead of my friend. He has Classic Autism and speaks through sign language.

LOL @Jellybean- I am the spelling and grammar police in a HUGE way... I mean, I don't correct people, but I almost explode when people don't spell/type well. Gah.

I don't think you'd ever guess my speech difficulties based on how I type. That's why I like typing so much, because I'm free to actually say when I'm thinking rather than being held back by my incessant "kitty cat" and "hi" and stuff. Sometimes, I open my mouth to say something difficult, and "kitty cat" slips out. Frustrating.

Hey, is the 'non-verbal' of this thread including creating text? Or, is the definition just being limited to speaking aloud to others?

how could someone be unable to create text and participate in the forums?

The second one.

guywithAS: some non-verbals prefer using symbols (as opposed to letters of the Roman alphabet...or 'letters' of other more-established 'languages') for 'written' conversation. I for one would love to participate sometime in a 'text'-based conversation using only ASL/Gallaudet (or even a version of Braille) 'pictographs' (so to speak - ha!) and really stretch out the part of my brain/interaction experience from not formulating my thoughts into English (whether written or verbally articulated). Of course, 'resorting' to something other than what's already been assumed as the 'norm' (replacing written English with a communicative picture system, for example) can easily lead to conflicts.

I could be considered a partial (to almost completely) non-verbal, according to the defining parameters in play - which is why I asked for clarification within this thread. But, I know that not all non-verbals (of my 'level'/classification and others') or 'verbals' for that matter, would feel the same about distinctions regarding what's said out loud, what's written as (English) text and, what's written/appears as just some kind of picture code to non-users. ...To put it another way, some regard English text as basically an 'extension' of verbalized English (which implies that rules of written English are predicated on rules of verbal English - and not vice versa...which would demonstrate a preconception that any written English is CREATED AND DEFINED OUT OF AND BY VERBAL PRACTICES). I don't happen to see it that way (written English to me is quite different from verbal English...almost a whole separate language rather than an extension, though one can often affect the other given enough time), but am interested in seeing the perceptions of other participants so I can better fit into the current 'conversation'.

Jellybean wrote: I have come across non-verbal people on this site before. You often can't tell them apart from the verbal unless they explicitly say so themselves that they are NV. I have to say though I can see why they don't like it here too much because some people on here can be quite judgemental of spelling and grammatical mistakes, which might be a bit more common with LFA/NV people. I personally welcome everyone here verbal or not.

If non-verbal's are being considered/treated as verbals in our WP format (which is in written form but might be considered/evauluated via 'verbal'/extension rules by some/many users), the above (being corrected on spelling/grammar) may occur more frequently because those doing the correcting equate written text with verbal (skills). May or may not be accurate (or 'fair')...but it happens very frequently. So then, non-verbals get 'corrected' (misconstrued sometimes as criticism/punishment...not a conducive 'atmosphere/environment') because they've 'failed' to communicate adequately to someone else's standards - the 'correction/criticism' being doubly unfair since those who far exceed their personal comfort zones to communicate have done so out of a sense of courtesy and civility (among other motivations) trying to reach out. There's not much sense of discouraging those communication efforts in the name of preserving correct spelling. Asking for clarification is one thing but simply pointing out an error for its own sake is a misplaced priority.

Considering it unfair still stands even if the 'error-catcher' doesn't consider written English as an extension and/or subject of/to verbal rules. I've studied the English language (verbal and written) in a very-motivated fashion for well over 30 years yet make errors. It's an extremely complicated communicative system. And it definitely sends a message to (would-be) users...The message I hear the most often is this 'language' isn't for you - despite having been born and growing up here!

Do you see? For me, if definition of being 'verbal' is ONLY LIMITED TO AUDIBLE VOICE COMMUNICATIONS and 'non-verbal' is a term that covers anything else outside of what's been defined as 'verbal' , then, as an NV, I'd be more apt to participate in a thread where my occasional text errors won't 'damage' any credibility I may experience as a post-er. Decisions regarding choosing whether or not to participate really could hinge on just one supposedly unimportant aspect. I'm like so many other people: I don't want to open myself to any variation of criticism or ridicule if I feel it (either the initial act of opening up OR any resultant criticism) wouldn't be justified. I will communicate in the recipient's preferred format if it seems 'safe' enough. ...But, this leads to a question I haven't gotten an answer for yet...If anything verbal (English, Spanish, Japanese, whatever) is not one's 'first language', then is the first 'language' something written or pictured? Some cultures have been oral-based only with no written equivalents...what do we call the reverse (some written-based form only with no verbal equivalents)? What amazing differences in humans there would be if we were written-based/no verbals only!

To me, there are important differences between being non-verbal (even if just partially) - which has to do with speech- and being illiterate (even if just partially) -which has to do with handwritten/printed text. I have found (and am finding more and more) that it's usually considered much more acceptable (by NT terms) to be illiterate to some degree than it is to be non-verbal in some degree. A few decades ago, that wasn't as true as it's become these days...If mainstream focus today were on literacy-related communications, I'd be a god! Well, maybe. At the least, I'd be given a lot more cookies!