Whats the difference between Schizotypal and Aspergers?

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nca14
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13 Apr 2015, 2:36 am

I have doubts about it. I would said that I do not have typical form of "aspieness". I have many doubts about it. I was "kooky" since childhood.

Some of my topics: http://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=270095 (about peculiar sexuality), http://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=270095, http://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=272036.



beneficii
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13 Apr 2015, 11:17 am

My psychologist thinks I'm autistic, but my psychiatrist leans more toward schizotypal. The latter says it's because I can sometimes exhibit odd perceptions or tangential thinking. On the latter, I always have no clue when I'm engaging in tangential thinking. It's something that I find out from the mental health professional afterward.


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13 Apr 2015, 12:40 pm

beneficii wrote:
My psychologist thinks I'm autistic, but my psychiatrist leans more toward schizotypal. The latter says it's because I can sometimes exhibit odd perceptions or tangential thinking. On the latter, I always have no clue when I'm engaging in tangential thinking. It's something that I find out from the mental health professional afterward.

According to a study (Solomon M, Ozonoff S, Carter C, Caplan R (2008) J Autism Dev Disord 38 (8): 1474–84. ) tangential thinking and other uncommon thought styles are actually common in autism and certainly doesn't necessarily point towards schizotypal.


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13 Apr 2015, 2:04 pm

Schizotypal is a personality disorder along the schizophrenia spectrum, Asperger's is along the autism spectrum. While both struggle with social interaction, I think aspies have a harder time with socializing. Schizotypals have other symptoms like bizarre experiences, superstitions,magical thinking, etc. not experienced by aspies- and aspies have symptoms like RRBs and sensory issues not experienced by schizotypals.



beneficii
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13 Apr 2015, 7:13 pm

At my psychiatrist's appointment last Monday, I remember having problems with thought interference, which is where you get random, irrelevant thoughts that aren't necessarily important (even to you) and tend to be emotionally neutral and it would cause me to lose awareness of the appointment; the thoughts keep trying to derail your train of thought. I asked my psychologist about it and he did say that fit closer to schizotypal than to Asperger's.


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nca14
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14 Apr 2015, 7:05 am

Bizarre perceptual experiences were very rare in my case. But I have a lot of magical thinking which looks like superstitions. I am "uninterested" in normal socialisation. I have large problems with religion, in my mentality there is large internal conflict. I had magical thinking since being about 7 years old, but it was "more serious" from being about 12 years old. Now I am diagnosed with both Asperger's and schizotypal disorder (I would say that I have some forms of both conditions). I am not delusional, but can have blatantly bizarre thoughts.



nca14
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18 Sep 2015, 12:09 pm

For me "childhood-onset schizotypality" is a sort of aspieness and a PDD, not a "personality disorder". And it is also not just a schizotypal disorder, but also a sort of PDD. I suppose that it is lifelong condition, which appears to be an other way of functioning of mind (other attitude to reality), which is more similar to "personality disorders" than to learning disabilities (cognitive deficits) and unique cognitive styles.

My aspieness fits better to "schizotypal continuum" than to "autistic spectrum". I have not idiosyncratic sensory reactions, need of sameness and predictability, "human blindness", visual-spatial gifts like photographic memory, "GPS in head", visualizational skills like Temple Grandin has. Theory of mind looks rather natural for me (saying always truth is seen as dangerous to my mentality, it understands that being silent about something or lying can cause lack of unpleasant reactions of others - I do not think that as a child I did not understand lying or imaginative play). My mentality is "not interested in normal life" and "can't" imagine it, looks to life as like to play and fun (careless, infantile, childish?). My "schizotypal autism" is not Mendelsohnn's syndrome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypal_autism) - I think that the title of this article in Wikipedia (Shizotypal autism) is not proper, because I think that there are other sorts of "schizotypal autism" than Mendelsohnn's syndrome. I suppose that quite many people with Asperger's diagnosis might in fact have (different) sorts of schizotypal autisms, not something which belong to one spectrum with Kanner's syndrome.

My speech was not delayed and I had large vocabulary and very good spelling skills as a child, I was also good in counting, was interested in maps and video games, learn how to ride a bike rather fast (before 6th birthday) and had rather good handwriting - these traits are rather opposite of NVLD traits (I suppose that I have "hyperlogic" profile with verbal skills more developed than visual-spatial ones - maybe it is not associated with NVLD, but with schizotypy (and possibly schizotypal nature of my PDD), OCD and effects of serious hypotrophy at birth (weaker executive functioning, poorer concentration(?))).



olympiadis
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19 Sep 2015, 9:53 am

nca14 wrote:
I have a lot of magical thinking which looks like superstitions.
... but can have blatantly bizarre thoughts.


Could you give some examples?
I am curious.



nca14
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20 Sep 2015, 6:11 am

I have obsessions like these which "say" that when I do not walk somewhere something bad will happen (for example I will not be married or someone would be a victim of a crime). I have "magical obsessions", controlling compulsions which are a sort of OCD symptoms.

Blatantly bizarre thoughts are for example thinking that I am the Highest Being, that I created everything. I have "delusional ideas" about female humans.

I suppose that in USA I would not be diagnosed with PDD, Asperger's, ASD and even schizotypy, but maybe just with NVLD and OCD. I have an obsession about "NVLD". I would classify many sorts of "NVLD" as sorts of PDD/autism/aspieness. Maybe even all cases of "S-NLD" - "social NVLD" (https://non-vld.wikispaces.com/NVLD+Subtypes) or"social learning disability" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnJpqrNTASU) are cases of a developmental conditions from "schizocontinuum". Some sorts of aspieness (like mine) may be in fact "schizoid-schizotypal disorders", not conditions related to childhood autism described by Leo Kanner. Aspieness starts in childhood and causes significant difference from other people just in childhood, it is not something which starts in adolesence or adulthood (schizophrenia rather does not start in childhood, aspieness always starts in childhood). I suppose that some sorts of schizotypy and schizoidia are also sorts of aspieness which are not related to Kanner syndrome.

Traits like fixated interests, unattachment to people, inability to mutual interactions, strange rituals like controlling compulsions, one-sided conversations should be excluded from the picture of any specific developmental disorder and any learning disability. My mentality is not interested in "normal" life, is rather disinterested in being loved by other persons, in socialisation (gaining social skills), lives "in own world". It sounds like a condition from schizocontinuum, not from so-called autistic spectrum (the word "autism" (from Greek "autos" - "self") was coined by Eugen Bleurer, he used it to refer to one group of symptoms of shizophrenia). n the 1940s, researchers in the United States began to use the term "autism" to describe children with emotional or social problems (http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/history-of-autism).

Why my condition which started in childhood could be called "learning disability" instead of "autism"? For me autism is something like "personality disorder" or "different way of socio-emotional functioning which the nature has", not something associated with "idiosyncratic brain", "other wiring" or cognitive deficits (such as lack of theory of mind) or unique cognitive style. I would associate so-called autistic spectrum with idiosyncratic brain, other wiring of it and cognitive deficits or unique cognitive style, but not with something like "personality disorder" which starts in childhood. I would name something which I experience as autism, although it is not something which looks so similar to the condition which Temple Grandin has.



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13 Dec 2016, 10:32 pm

going back to the original question. I think that the author of the thread or even his/her psychiatrist may have confused or mixed up the term schizotypal personality disorder and schizoid personality type which i believe are two separate terms.


Reading "the complete guide to Asperger's" by Tony Attwood, I read the following interesting info.

"We now know that it was probably a Russian neurology scientific assistant, Dr Ewa Ssucharewa, who first published a description of children that we would describe today as having Asperger’s syndrome (Ssucharewa 1926; Ssucharewa and Wolff 1996). Ssucharewa’s description became known as Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD). Sula Wolff (1995, 1998) has reviewed our knowledge of Schizoid Personality Disorder and suggested that SPD closely resembles the characteristics of Asperger’s syndrome"



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13 Dec 2016, 11:32 pm

Quote:
According to a study (Solomon M, Ozonoff S, Carter C, Caplan R (2008) J Autism Dev Disord 38 (8): 1474–84. ) tangential thinking and other uncommon thought styles are actually common in autism and certainly doesn't necessarily point towards schizotypal.


Sorry to bother you. I was wondering if you had more information about the above original source.
For example. The full name of the book or article and perhaps if possible a link to the original source or where i could buy a copy if necessary. I ask, as i have tangential thinking which has been a bit of a problem all my life but i have no explanation as to why i have this problem.
Thanks



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14 Dec 2016, 2:27 am

madbutnotmad wrote:
Quote:
According to a study (Solomon M, Ozonoff S, Carter C, Caplan R (2008) J Autism Dev Disord 38 (8): 1474–84. ) tangential thinking and other uncommon thought styles are actually common in autism and certainly doesn't necessarily point towards schizotypal.


Sorry to bother you. I was wondering if you had more information about the above original source.
For example. The full name of the book or article and perhaps if possible a link to the original source or where i could buy a copy if necessary. I ask, as i have tangential thinking which has been a bit of a problem all my life but i have no explanation as to why i have this problem.
Thanks


Full research : http://sci-hub.cc/10.1007/s10803-007-0526-6


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 133 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 47 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)


neurotypicalET
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14 Dec 2016, 5:04 am

Its Russian...lol... :D


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rpcarnell
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02 Jun 2018, 12:49 am

I have been posting here for years, and today, I found out I am schizotypal. I never had Aspergers, it seems.

The considered many issues, the 567-questions questionnaire, how anxious I am when I talk, social anxiety, mannerisms, and, the anger attacks I get where I talk to imaginary opponents (similar to "Are you talking to me?" in Taxi Driver).

The medications are likely to punch a serious hole in my pocket, unfortunately.


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02 Jun 2018, 4:37 am

I think even the so called experts, ie mental health professionals, are confused by the two. A while ago while still living in Essex I mentioned some things to my nurse practitioner while dropping the A word into the conversation. She said it could be explained by schizotypal while at the end of the conversation handing me a printout about a local Aspergers charity. It is of course quite possible to be both although the crudeness of the diagnostic systems tends to deny that possibility .


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Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 47 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)


AnnaTheFox
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14 Feb 2019, 1:44 pm

firemonkey wrote:
I think even the so called experts, ie mental health professionals, are confused by the two. A while ago while still living in Essex I mentioned some things to my nurse practitioner while dropping the A word into the conversation. She said it could be explained by schizotypal while at the end of the conversation handing me a printout about a local Aspergers charity. It is of course quite possible to be both although the crudeness of the diagnostic systems tends to deny that possibility .



Necromancy engaged. Bring this thread back to UNDEATH!

(Special note: included several weblinks to research about ties between Schizophrenia and ASD, but can't do that as a 'new user'. Ah well)

It seems highly likely that similar genetic differences are attributable to both autism and schizophrenia spectrum disorders. It could be that they share some genetic markers, but not others.


"...COS (childhood onset schizophrenia) is preceded by and comorbid with Pervasive Developmental Disorder in 30%-50% of cases."

Now onto Schizotypal PD (StPD). While the specific etiology of most PDs is likely environmental, it's possible there may be some genetic cohorts.

Specifically in the case of Cluster A PDs (ScPD, StPD, PPD) likely are related to Schizophrenia spectrum disorders.

In the specific case of StPD, likely environmental etiology is familial discord/estrangement/neglect (sexual and/or physical abuse also common), bullying by peers, and an internalized sense of being estranged from social relationships, or of being abnormal, bad (Beck et al 2004, pg 153).

As a defensive measure, the person may adopt magical thinking ("the world is dangerous, but this crystal/spell/ritual will keep me safe"), endorse ideas of reference ("this TV program is about an idea I had, this cannot be a coincidence, it must be fate"), suspicion ("Why is this person being nice? What do they want from me?"), Odd behaviors, speech (vague, overly elaborate, metaphorical, circumstantial) (metaphorical: "I'm an alien in district 9", overly elaborate: see this post, circumstantial: "I thought I had ASD but Schizotypal PD seems more likely. Have you ever wondered about aliens? Do they exist? I think abduction stories are likely misremembered sexual abuse memories, have I told you about my own experiences of sexual abuse? Oh, refer back to my example of of overly elaborate now." Vague: "It's kinda like that thing some object oriented programming languages can do. Like a box inside of a box inside of a box, this post?"), presentation ("I look different to signal that I am special/abnormal"), and unusual perceptual experiences, such as bodily perceptions ("my soul leaves my body"), derealization ("the world isn't real"), depersonalization ("I'm not real"). Under stress StPD can present with hallucinations/delusions that are generally not endorsed as strongly as those of active schizophrenics ("Once I saw my partner and heard him as if he were Wrex Urdnot from Mass Effect. I knew he wasn't, but I still couldn't shake the perception. At the same time, I thought my therapist was trying to set up a puzzle where I discovered my Autism through his referral to my arrested development (idea of reference/delusional belief).

This is not an exhaustive list, and more information is available from the DSM-V, heading: Personality Disorders, subheading: Cluster A Schizotypal Personality Disorder 301.22 F22, found on page 655.

I think it's possible, especially for an undiagnosed aspie having been raised in the correct (or perhaps incorrect?) environment to develop maladaptive coping mechanisms which invariably could be translated into a diagnosis of StPD. Both likely have similar genetic predispositions, as there is some hereditary reality to StPD and Schizophrenia. Further, as a personality disorder, StPD is a pervasive pattern of interacting with the world and others. Thus, I'm not entirely sure a diagnosis of ASD Level I precludes developing StPD. To be fair, both are still very much emerging fields of study.

Beck, A. T., MD, Freeman, A., EdD, ABPP, ACT, & Davis, D. P., PhD. (2004). Cognitive Therapy of Personality Disorders (2nd ed.). New York, NY: The Guilford Press.
Pg. 153 Schizotypal Personality Disorders

Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders: DSM-5 (5th ed.). (2017). Arlington, VA: American Psychiatric Association.
Pg. 655 Schizotypal Personality Disorder