Whats the difference between Schizotypal and Aspergers?
25 Sep 2012, 12:37 pm
The difference is my doctor told me "No, you don't have that one, you have Asperger's, I'm a world class authority on this."
I hate appeals to authority, but he was right about that one.
edit: I've been told that though the list of symptoms is similar, if you meet a schizotypal person and an AS person, you will immediately realize that they are totally different. A schizotypal person is more likely to be in an institution with an incorrect diagnosis of schizophrenia, as well. All the schizotypal people I've talked to have been institutionalized for at least short periods.
25 Sep 2012, 12:58 pm
Yes. You are so flipping sensible. That is so right. I hope I my thoughts of the state of psychiatry today compared to 40 years ago is somewhat correct also. Cause I think that it hasn't changed so much, in it's understanding of the human being it has been improvements, and also in many other areas it has become merely more humane and socially conscious. But the way they work and how they think of the mentality of the human has only changed in accordance to dominant ideologies and in accordance to many conformist values in society, it's nothing revolutionary or nothing of convincing breakthroughs.
My answer to the magical thinking part is that also the evolution of the brain is an important factor, and every other gray aera of the brain and mind that people don't seem to consider. It's not pathological, I don't think so either. It's a shame psychiatrists don't seem to realize this. It may be because of how their task in society is in the first place, they need to limit their understanding so that they have a blueprint to work from.
24 Dec 2012, 8:58 am
I would like to share my experience with schizotypo. I don't really have the disorder I was diagnosed with AvPD + Schizoid and OC features. I guess I'm pretty near of the diagnosable criteria. I've come to realization how different I am.
I mean I see sometimes things that aren't there but I know it is not really true. My intuition is somewhat wild. I'm always making connections (sometimes very far fetched). I have had pretty wild religious experiences and I'm familiar with ideas of references. I mean there are pretty crazy theories in my head but I don't share those with others because... My language is sometimes quite metaphorical and not so exact than descriptive. I'm scatterbrained and bit disorganized in my head. My EQ is clearly above average and SQ is lower average. I'm pretty good at reading people and I think I sometimes go too far interpreting it. I was quite a hugger boy before the school environment changed me and my mother wrote that I was extremely good at picking up peoples emotions but I really needed my own time alone.
I have excelled in sciences. I would describe it as a love affair rather than interest in pure logic and systems. It is a very emotional experience for me to make new connections and such. I can use my intuition to navigate with technology and such without really thinking about it. I don't read the manuals if there is no memorization required.
I have pretty bad social anxiety but on the other hand I usually view people as too predictable and shallow.
24 Dec 2012, 12:51 pm
Many people have infrequent hallucinations that are too isolated and brief to cause problems. That's where I am. I've never had a hallucination lasting longer than an hour. An hour's the longest.
Other people have frequent and longer lasting hallucinations that cause problems. Is that where you are?
24 Dec 2012, 1:39 pm
I suspect that the cause of the rule "ASD and schizophrenia SD can't coexist" is because the symptoms are so similar that, if you have symptoms of both, it is more logical to assume that you have only one disorder (being the apparent symptoms of the other only a side-effect) than that you have simultaneously two relatively rare conditions.
Without this rule, I imagine that shizotypals could be easily diagnosable with AS - they have the social problems, the strange non-verbal communication and their delusion/bizarre ideas could be easily considered "special interests".
24 Dec 2012, 1:43 pm
The only personality disorder that is only diagnosed in adults is Antisocial Personality Disorder; the others could be diagnosed at children in the symptoms are present by more than one year.
24 Dec 2012, 1:49 pm
I wonder if my ex boyfriend had magical thinking? My mom thought he may have been a schizophrenic because of the way he used hand gestures, the look on his face, how he talked, things he believed in, his paranoia he had, and she knew he had something else going on than ADHD, anxiety, and depression. But he did have friends and he had one close one too. I didn't notice his speech patterns or his hand gestures being odd or his facial expressions. The only thing I noticed were his thoughts and what he would get paranoid about.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
24 Dec 2012, 2:02 pm
Research is finding that individuals classified as being on the schizophrenia spectrum have an "atypical" neurology--and that signs arise early in development. The same neurolocial soft signs that autistic people exhibit are also found in schizoids/schizotypals. Bizarre movements/stereotypies/and tics are also associated with these disorders. Repetitive/ruminative thinking and OCD are features of schizotypes.
There may be schizoids who are schizoid because of emotional trauma/upbringing, but this isn't so for schizotypals. Schizotypals are almost certainly born, not made.
I think that there is a recurrent misconception running in this forum: that the difference between ASD and personality disorders is that the first are from birth and permanent while the second are acquired and perhaps treatable.
No, no, no - personality disorders are supposed to be permanent traits of thinking and behavior. The reason because PDs are rarely diagnosed at children is exactly because, in children, you don't know yet if their behavior will be permanent or it will change when they grow. The cause of PDs is not established: they could be from "nature" or from "nurture", does not matter - the point of a PD is that it is permanent, independently if the reason why you "catch" it.
The reason because, in DSM-IV, PDs are classified in Axis-II, together with mental retardation, is exactly because PDs and MR are supposed to be permanent and non-curable (if anything, it is ASDs who are misclassified in the Axis-I, when they should be classified in Axis-II - probably a reminiscence of the tendency to see autism as a "children's condition").
24 Dec 2012, 2:16 pm
This is interesting.
A friend was dx'd with "schzoid personality disorder"( I believe thats what he said), but it might have been "schzotypal personality disorder". Havent talked to him in some years.
Is there such a thing as "schzoid personality disorder"?
He lives with psychiatric supervision. Does have paranoid tendencies -some of which verge on 'magical thinking' IMO( ie he leans toward conspiratorial explanations for things- some of which can be rather 'imaginative' to say the least).
For example - he had a relative who died changing a tire on the shoulder of a highway- killed by a hit and run. The relative happened to be an evangelical christian. He once said "you have to wonder about his death.." and then implied he was done in by a jewish conspiracy threatened by this relative's fervent christianity. When I asked him why exactly he thought that was the cause of the relative's death...he immediately caved and was embarrassed ( he either relealized that it was absurd- or realized that it SOUNDED absurd and that he didnt have the intelect to make an explanation that sounded good).
24 Dec 2012, 2:18 pm
Many people have infrequent hallucinations that are too isolated and brief to cause problems. That's where I am. I've never had a hallucination lasting longer than an hour. An hour's the longest.
Other people have frequent and longer lasting hallucinations that cause problems. Is that where you are?
I can perceive what is true quite fast and they don't really last that long. I have experienced minor hallucinations as long as I can remember. Never dared to share it with anyone. It is not that frequent or disturbing. I think I'm safe from very serious psychotic break if I take care of myself. As I said I'm not that super high schizotypal spectrum. I don't know whether professional can diagnose it as a PD.
24 Dec 2012, 2:40 pm
Many people have infrequent hallucinations that are too isolated and brief to cause problems. That's where I am. I've never had a hallucination lasting longer than an hour. An hour's the longest.
Other people have frequent and longer lasting hallucinations that cause problems. Is that where you are?
I can perceive what is true quite fast and they don't really last that long. I have experienced minor hallucinations as long as I can remember. Never dared to share it with anyone. It is not that frequent or disturbing. I think I'm safe from very serious psychotic break if I take care of myself. As I said I'm not that super high schizotypal spectrum. I don't know whether professional can diagnose it as a PD.
Same with me. I don't have a psychotic disorder but have been getting those periodic brief hallucinations at a varying frequency consistantly since I was a toddler.
Have you ever had one that was realistic and plausible enough that you had to check it to determine whether it was a hallucination or not?
I heard a message on the intercom at the grocery store I was working at telling me that my assistance was needed at register 11. I found it a little odd because I never get asked to help out at the registers and my name is never used on the intercom. The message referred to me specifically. I decided to check it out just in case I really was needed even though I was already suspicious that it was a hallucination. As soon as I got to register 11 I asked if there was anything going on and the cashier said everything was fine. Then I asked another co-worker if my name was mentioned on the intercom at all and he said no. That was proof enough for me. I had to do a check that time but I figured it out.
Maybe we're getting off topic and should continue this discussion in a PM but the question I'm asking is this: Have you ever had a hallucination that was plausible enough that you had to do a reality check on it even though you were in a rational state of mind?
LonelyLoner
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25 Dec 2012, 5:07 am
Lecture about schizotypal persons
http://blip.tv/enneagon/sapolsky-on-religion-2215838
Shamanism, religious views, loose connections and so on. There was need for schizotypals in the past but modern world discriminate against this personality trait. Schizophrenia under control. It was desired in small amounts in the past.
25 Dec 2012, 7:38 pm
http://blip.tv/enneagon/sapolsky-on-religion-2215838
Shamanism, religious views, loose connections and so on. There was need for schizotypals in the past but modern world discriminate against this personality trait. Schizophrenia under control. It was desired in small amounts in the past.
I suspect that, in present times, schizotypals simply changed of field and, instead of being shamans or founders of religions, they now are in things like philosophical/political/psychological theories.
25 Dec 2012, 9:09 pm
A pervasive pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference);
odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions;
odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped);
suspiciousness or paranoid ideation;
inappropriate or constricted affect;
behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar;
lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives;
excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self.
Where do you draw the line between someone who is merely eccentric and someone who has something as horrible-sounding as schizotypal personality disorder?! Many people believe in telepathy, many have had bodily illusions, and most people are superstitious to one degree or another. It is only when you add a little paranoia, a degree of social isolation, some social anxiety... that a psychologist can begin to feel more confident in making this diagnosis. Perhaps, in the schizotypal, we are looking at a combination of slight psychotic tendencies mixed with social anxiety and/or Asperger's syndrome.
From this, I'd say the biggest difference is that schizotypal is more of a learned behavior, whereas AS is a neurological condition that is most likely genetic. They are not mutually exclusive.
Very different disorders-this and AS.
BUT to an outside observer they would LOOK similiar- one could be easily mistaken for the other. A person who was shy at a party because he was affraid of looking like a dork could be mistaken for a person who was shy because he was convinced that all of these strangers are in cahoots with the CIA to get him (or vice versa-the paranoid could be mistaken for the socially inept dork).
And ofcourse- as different as they are, there is nothing about one that means you couldnt also have the other at the same time.
And indeed one person on this thread has actually been dx'd as having both (forget your name but thanks for the input).
26 Dec 2012, 2:47 am
You appear to be mixing up social anxiety and "being a bit shy" with pervasive developmental disorders. Autism isn't just being shy, and if your social interaction is lacking because you're just shy or have social anxiety, then it isn't autism.
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