Opinions on Simon Baron-Cohen's response to critics

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Never mind.

Thanks for your opinions everyone. I guess this is one of those subjects where there is still much to sorted and ideas and opinions differ greatly. I still am in agreement with SBC in that autistic people have issues with affective empathy, but perhaps have an excess of sympathy. I've witnessed this to be true in my life as well as other family members on the spectrum. I don't take it personally, because I don't view it as it means that I am less than, but just different in the way that I process the world around me. I've always known this. Being diagnosed and being aware that I have issues with being able to infer how another person might be feeling or thinking has made a difference in close relationships. People used to think that I was purposely ignoring their needs, or even being self centered, but now give me the benefit of the doubt that I may just not be aware of all this emotional information. They tell me verbally and I respond with great concern and care, as most will and do with autism. I think explaining to parents of ASD kids that their child cares very much about others, but shows it differently, as well as needs the whole POV that seems to come naturally for non-ASD people spelled out for them will help them understand their child.

Also, I think there is some confusion in this thread about what empathy is vs sympathy. Empathy is the ability to understand another's POV, and feelings. Understanding doesn't equate caring about. It just means having the ability to know about how others feel by nonverbal communication. Sympathy is more about wanting to or fix , or help. I know that I have little need to know about how others feel and discuss feelings, but I am fast to action to help. I will give generously of my time and resources to help others. I never mind doing so, especially for the underdog.

The theory of mind test takes a lot of mental juggling of language, though. And autistics often suck at language--even Aspies have problems with figurative and between-the-lines meanings. That confounding variable makes me doubt the results of such language-heavy theory of mind tests.

Here is an excellent article debunking the "theory of mind" nonsense. One of the authors' points is the same as that made here--the fact that not all autistic people fail ToM tests would seem to suggest that ToM "deficits" are not in fact a "core deficit" of autism. Additionally, people with other disabilities that affect language comprehension also struggle on ToM tests frequently. I really recommend the article.

Cyberdad: I hate to correct you, but Tony Attwood's sister in law is autistic, he references her in a few scenarios in one of his new books. I do agree however that they are getting a slightly incorrect view of autistics in general. Especially Simon Baron-Cohen, the things I've read from him kind of piss me off, I don't like how frequently he implies that autistics are sociopaths, or close to it. It's really upsetting.

Right, I get that it's a lab test, but it's the fact that to NOT be autistic or whatever, you have to realize that other people are trying to steal your stuff. Seems more like an example of paranoia or something. I don't know, I'm going to have to read about that because it sounds like the stupidest test ever conducted.

The problem with clinical research is, as you say, they're basing their information on corrupted data. I forget what it's called, or if it has a name, but there is a principle in research that you cannot observe something without inherently changing the thing that you're observing. Thus they fail on that principle alone. Tony Attwood especially, I read things I totally agree with, and then I find passages where it seems clear he based an imaginary Aspie's reaction to certain situations on the idea that we're self centered and emotionally distant. We may in fact be both of those things in some way, but I don't believe that you can apply those two behaviors in their more extreme forms to ALL situations.

I paraphrase but: "An AS man is on his way to an interview and meets another man in the elevator. The first man says hello and asks if he's there for an interview. AS man realizes he hasn't combed his hair, and then proceeds to ignore the question and ask if the man has a comb he could borrow." And somehow that's an example of AS people being self-centered or something. He's trying hard I'm sure, but it takes an Aspie to know an Aspie, and until there are autistic researchers, there shall be misinformation from and for the NT masses.