Aspies responsible for attracting manipulative behaviour? NO

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Jayo
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20 Sep 2011, 6:23 am

After I deal with an unpleasant character who picks up on my differences and tries to manipulate me, and I tell those people within my circle about it, I still get attitudes to the effect of "well, you must be projecting certain vibes to compel them to behave this way towards you, so try not to carry on that aura..." ya, okayyy...it's as if an Aspie like me has a magical light switch where I can toggle between "please take advantage of me" and "I'm solid street-smart, so don't even try to trick me".

I got this kind of "you deserve what you attract" mindset from my wife (NT) earlier this year. I switched jobs due to having a supervisor who was a bully, she was the quintessential corporate politician diva who would regularly nitpick my behaviour or choice of words that they were not appropriate, but after running the scenario by her, and my circle of trusted friends, they would say I did nothing wrong, as I suspected. My wife suggested that I'm projecting a certain aura and behaviours that compel these type of characters to engage in psychological abuse with me b/c they see that I'm more "vulnerable" due to lack of street-smarts, so she advised me to try not to project that appearance, and I wouldn't get that treatment. Again, it's the "you deserve what you attract" mentality.

This is unfortunately a common attitude in society, and certainly not one that's consistently applied for other "vulnerable" segments of society. So, are we to believe that when the con artist cheats the lonely 85-year-old widow out of her inheritance, that she got what she deserved for being too naive and trusting???!



AtticusKane
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20 Sep 2011, 6:44 am

I'm not so sure it's that they think you deserve what you attract, just that you get what you attract. Which is true.



mds_02
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20 Sep 2011, 6:44 am

I don't think people necessarily believe that you deserve the kind of treatment that you're getting.

Rather, they may be telling you this because it is the only way they can think of to help you avoid being subjected to that treatment.

Maybe the next time someone says something like that to you, you can ask them how to project a different appearance?


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LabPet
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20 Sep 2011, 6:52 am

Jayo, so very true. Similarly, this would be like telling a pretty woman that she "deserved" to be raped - that she somehow attracts violent sexual offenders because she gives off an aura of prettiness. Illogical!

Personally, I think it's so important to surround oneself with people who are ethical and good. Those who take advantage (e.g. bullies) are a lose-lose situation waiting to happen. I read once that if you argue with a stupid pig, he'll bring you down to his level and then beat you up with his experience.


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mds_02
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20 Sep 2011, 6:58 am

LabPet wrote:
Jayo, so very true. Similarly, this would be like telling a pretty woman that she "deserved" to be raped - that she somehow attracts violent sexual offenders because she gives off an aura of prettiness. Illogical!


But would it be wrong to tell that woman that maybe should be careful about walking down dark alleys alone?


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AtticusKane
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20 Sep 2011, 7:11 am

mds_02 wrote:
LabPet wrote:
Jayo, so very true. Similarly, this would be like telling a pretty woman that she "deserved" to be raped - that she somehow attracts violent sexual offenders because she gives off an aura of prettiness. Illogical!


But would it be wrong to tell that woman that maybe should be careful about walking down dark alleys alone?


Also, if you're gonna be walking down dark alleys alone at night, you might not want to be wearing a skirt and heels. Not that you deserve to get raped if you do anyway, but, well..... if you cover yourself in meat and run into the forest, don't be surprised when you get ate.

Extreme examples of course, but same general concept....



Twist
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20 Sep 2011, 7:47 am

if someone bullies, cheats or manipulates you because they think you're weak, it's up to you to balance it out and make them regret ever giving you justification for retribution.

you can take the moral highground and ignore them too ofcourse, but people that feed on the vulnerable don't usually stop just because you don't fight back, they usually have an agenda that doesn't require any resistance on your part.

machiavellianism + a brain designed for systemizing is not something that gets taken advantage of easily, and it doesn't make you as bad as predatory personalities because you use it to defend yourself, either actively or passive-aggressively.

i do think that autism invites these types of personalities in though, simply because our naivety and altruism show up like big fat flood lights to narcissists and other deceitful phenotypes :x



pschristmas
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20 Sep 2011, 8:22 am

Jayo wrote:
After I deal with an unpleasant character who picks up on my differences and tries to manipulate me, and I tell those people within my circle about it, I still get attitudes to the effect of "well, you must be projecting certain vibes to compel them to behave this way towards you, so try not to carry on that aura..."


Nothing you do "compels" them to behave that way. No one can "compel" anyone to behave in a way that is outside of their normal way of behaving. A bully will, however, seek out and find the most obviously weak individual in their immediate area to attack. The part that's up to you, is to not be someone who looks like someone who can be pushed around. Bullies are ultimately weak and insecure; they never go after anyone they perceive to be powerful, whatever their notional rank, but they will even push around a superior within their organization if they think they can.



Ettina
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20 Sep 2011, 4:35 pm

Quote:
Also, if you're gonna be walking down dark alleys alone at night, you might not want to be wearing a skirt and heels. Not that you deserve to get raped if you do anyway, but, well..... if you cover yourself in meat and run into the forest, don't be surprised when you get ate.


Contrary to stereotypes, rape perpetrators aren't particularly more likely to rape a woman who dresses attractively. The biggest characteristics they tend to pick out are vulnerability characteristics such as low self-esteem, rather than attractiveness characteristics - they generally go for the women who make easier victims. Ironically, women with low self-esteem are actually less likely to dress really sluttily, because they're more likely to have body image issues leading them to want to hide their bodies.

Furthermore, most rape victims aren't attacked by some stranger while walking alone in the dark. They're raped by someone they know, such as a date who doesn't take 'no' for an answer. Something like 90% of rape victims knew the rapist prior to the rape occuring.

Back on topic - I think autistics do tend to 'look like victims'. This does not mean we're to blame for being victimized, but due to our disability we're more vulnerable, and perpetrators pick up on this and seek us out. Ironically, I've been picked out by perpetrators as a good victim based on my poor social skills and (readily acknowledged) history of sexual abuse, even though my abuse experiences have taught me how to spot these people and defend myself pretty well. For example one guy convinced me to go watch TV with him at his house, then when I decided to leave he blocked the door and told me I had to kiss him before he'd let me leave. I immediately started searching for his phone, telling him I was going to call the police, and he let me go.



SkipNip
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20 Sep 2011, 5:02 pm

I attract manipulative, cunning people too. They probably see me as a mark. I don't really know how to deal with them cuz they don't up front, directly display negative intentions towards me so I'm left wondering whether they are to be trusted or not. The ones who pose as your friends are very tricky to deal with because you never know whether they are actually your friend or not. Even strangers are tricky to deal with though, heres one situation I remember off the top of my head: one day I was walking my dogs in the park and this park and some guy started walking beside me and talking to me. I'm not scared of anyone but I find it near impossible to read their body language and consequently, I think I act like I'm unaware or stupid etc. We were talking about drugs or something then he told me he had some crack on him and asked me if I wanted to buy some. I told him to show it to me (I wasn't gonna buy it, I just wanted to see if he was bluffing) and he got pretty pissed off and was like "I'm not gonna take it out in public like that, what the f**k is wrong with you". He wasn't very friendly to begin with but that was pretty hostile so I just said "alright its cool, I don't wanna buy it" but he seemed pretty insistent on robbing me, he started asking me how much money I had on me and stuff like that. I let him get way too close to me, because I started talking to him in a friendly manner he had the opportunities to try and talk me into putting myself into the position where he can rob me or whatever. I seem to let scumbags like this get too close to me. Normal people would just find ways to end the conversation and distance themselves from him without showing any disrespect but I find that kinda thing difficult. If I try and end the conversation and get away from the person I usually come across as disrespectful and hostile. Over the years I've learned that its all about the replies you give them. Just give them short, 1 word replies to everything and that way all their attempts to start a conversation are futile without you being disrespectful or hostile.

Ettina wrote:
Contrary to stereotypes, rape perpetrators aren't particularly more likely to rape a woman who dresses attractively. The biggest characteristics they tend to pick out are vulnerability characteristics such as low self-esteem, rather than attractiveness characteristics - they generally go for the women who make easier victims. Ironically, women with low self-esteem are actually less likely to dress really sluttily, because they're more likely to have body image issues leading them to want to hide their bodies.

Same goes for most of the dangers you encounter on the streets. People who wanna mug someone will go for people who look like they'll just hand over their money without putting up a fight. Luckily for them, rich people usually meet that criteria. Con artists will target people who appear gullible and unaware. I never get mugged but I get targeted by more tricky thugs quite often. These thugs don't put a gun to your head and tell you to hand over your money, instead they'll talk to you and try and trick you into putting yourself in a vulnerable position. I don't look weak and have scars that make me look like I've been in a fight or 2 so muggers probably don't see me as an optimal target but since I walk like a penguin, have a slouched posture and talk with a real deep voice like I'm mentally disabled or something, con artists probably deem me a suitable target.



Last edited by SkipNip on 20 Sep 2011, 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Verdandi
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20 Sep 2011, 5:10 pm

AtticusKane wrote:
mds_02 wrote:
LabPet wrote:
Jayo, so very true. Similarly, this would be like telling a pretty woman that she "deserved" to be raped - that she somehow attracts violent sexual offenders because she gives off an aura of prettiness. Illogical!


But would it be wrong to tell that woman that maybe should be careful about walking down dark alleys alone?


Also, if you're gonna be walking down dark alleys alone at night, you might not want to be wearing a skirt and heels. Not that you deserve to get raped if you do anyway, but, well..... if you cover yourself in meat and run into the forest, don't be surprised when you get ate.

Extreme examples of course, but same general concept....


No, it's never a woman's fault for being raped, it's the rapist's fault for choosing to rape, whatever the venue. And this is all BS anyway, as the majority of rapes are committed by men already known to their targets.

Similarly, it's not anyone's fault for an abuser picking them out of the crowd. Focusing on how to "protect yourself" only goes so far.

Edit: Or just look at Ettina's post.



MrXxx
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20 Sep 2011, 5:17 pm

I actually posted about this same topic quite a while back and got very similar results.

No, it isn't that people dealing with us deal any differently than they would would otherwise, because of anything we are necessarily doing, but it does seem that people who are already manipulative, gravitate toward those they perceive as easily manipulated. Many seem to think we are, even if they have no idea that Autism is part of our make-up.

Many of these people wouldn't dream of doing what they do to us, to someone with, say, Downs Syndrome, because DS is easily recognized by others watching what they are doing, and "picking on" people with Downs Syndrome has become far too politically incorrect. I doubt most of them would pull that kind of crap with obviously severely Autistics either. It's the fact that high functioning Autistics appear "more normal" that causes them either to not recognize we are Autistic, or the fact that they realize most people looking on won't see it that I think causes manipulative people to think they are more likely to get away with it.

In my own case, as I'm sure is true with many other high functioning Autistics but not all, a lot of manipulative people seem to be attracted to me with their wily ways. Unbeknownst to them, I have grown enough to know who they are when I see them coming, and usually play it cool until they begin to display their disgusting behaviors. It's very gratifying when they discover that I am not so easily manipulated anymore, and it ends up blowing up in their own face. :twisted:


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Maje
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20 Sep 2011, 5:22 pm

Verdandi wrote:
AtticusKane wrote:
mds_02 wrote:
LabPet wrote:
Jayo, so very true. Similarly, this would be like telling a pretty woman that she "deserved" to be raped - that she somehow attracts violent sexual offenders because she gives off an aura of prettiness. Illogical!


But would it be wrong to tell that woman that maybe should be careful about walking down dark alleys alone?


Also, if you're gonna be walking down dark alleys alone at night, you might not want to be wearing a skirt and heels. Not that you deserve to get raped if you do anyway, but, well..... if you cover yourself in meat and run into the forest, don't be surprised when you get ate.

Extreme examples of course, but same general concept....


No, it's never a woman's fault for being raped, it's the rapist's fault for choosing to rape, whatever the venue. And this is all BS anyway, as the majority of rapes are committed by men already known to their targets.

Similarly, it's not anyone's fault for an abuser picking them out of the crowd. Focusing on how to "protect yourself" only goes so far.

Edit: Or just look at Ettina's post.


Either you see the connection or you dont. I dont say the rapist is innocent, I just ... cant give better examples than AtticusKane just did.

As an aspie I can disprove the statement of "us" attracting manipulators though, because if you know what you emit... its controllable!



MrXxx
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20 Sep 2011, 5:32 pm

Maje wrote:
As an aspie I can disprove the statement of "us" attracting manipulators though, because if you know what you emit... its controllable!


Really? I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is. I highly doubt you can disprove it, just as much as I highly doubt anyone else could prove it's true. I'm an Aspie too, and my own personal experience, along with many others I've spoken to, totally contradicts your claim.

I'm NOT saying either for or against is true for all Aspies. Practically nothing is true in all cases. Dismissing the experiences of others though, based on your on your own or any others, is, well, dismissive, and doesn't prove or disprove anything.

"if you know what you emit... it's controllable..."

Yeah, I can agree with that, but don't forget that "knowing what you emit" is exactly the sort of thing that Autism makes extremely difficult, if not impossible. That is part of the effect of Autism, so it's not that simple to just change the "vibes" you are sending to others if you don't even know and can't understand what they are.


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Maje
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20 Sep 2011, 6:19 pm

MrXxx wrote:
Maje wrote:
As an aspie I can disprove the statement of "us" attracting manipulators though, because if you know what you emit... its controllable!


Really? I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is. I highly doubt you can disprove it, just as much as I highly doubt anyone else could prove it's true. I'm an Aspie too, and my own personal experience, along with many others I've spoken to, totally contradicts your claim.

I'm NOT saying either for or against is true for all Aspies. Practically nothing is true in all cases. Dismissing the experiences of others though, based on your on your own or any others, is, well, dismissive, and doesn't prove or disprove anything.

"if you know what you emit... it's controllable..."

Yeah, I can agree with that, but don't forget that "knowing what you emit" is exactly the sort of thing that Autism makes extremely difficult, if not impossible. That is part of the effect of Autism, so it's not that simple to just change the "vibes" you are sending to others if you don't even know and can't understand what they are.


Yeah, well ok, since this is going to be impossible... I will just say some words... First you understand what people react to. If you dont understand that, its probably a deficit (according to people´who know this). Yes I change my vibes towards potential rapists etc. How the f*** do I explain that? I play the I-am-dangerous-and-it-will-be-a-hard-task-trying-to-abuse-me role. I was diagnosed with AS by a professional 2 weeks ago, and knowing what I emit is maybe the one thing in the world Im good at. (That doesnt include controlling it at all times, but surely I have used tricks like these in times when they where necessary). Its surely manipulative... Why am I answering to this?

I have been thinking if I ever am confronted with a hungry lyon .... if I could fool her with my stronger (fake) personality, so that she wouldnt attack me according to the risk.