Does society oppress those on the spectrum with noise?

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Pileated woodpecker
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19 Sep 2020, 4:43 pm

It's how it seems to me, every single time I move it happens... and it's not just random people either, but governmental institutions who know the diagnoses and yet where do they send them? Well, of course, on the busiest, noisiest street possible, and then... Pikachu face when they go insane and start threatening them? Yeah, totally couldn't have seem them coming. Society is sociopathic... at best.



emotrtkey
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19 Sep 2020, 4:51 pm

Government housing tends to be located in cities because it provides easier access to services for those who need them. It's unfortunate for autistic people but we're a small minority of those who need housing.



Pepe
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20 Sep 2020, 1:44 am

The problem is,
I don't have sound sensitivity. :mrgreen:



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20 Sep 2020, 1:58 am

No, it doesn't. Society just happens to have noise; it's not there to bother people. If you have bad problems with loud noises, you could move out of the city or invest in making your place more sound proof. If the problem is noises outside when you have to do whatever, try noise cancelling headphones or going out when there's likely to be less noise.



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20 Sep 2020, 2:04 am

I think this is a bit of an outlandish assumption. Most social housing are in cities close to amenities. Chances are if someone is in need of social housing then they also struggle with transport. There is no real easy way to deal with it. They might have some properties in much quieter rural places but what if the aspie or anyone for that matter can't drive?

Secondly you seem overly paranoid and need to keep that in check. If your being threatened as a result of your response to where you live then you run the chance of being evicted and no further assistance being given.



Nades
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20 Sep 2020, 10:52 am

And on a side note. Have you ever thought about getting a load of half decent ear plugs? I use them in work every day as I work in a metal fab shop that can get outrageously noisy with all the machines and hammering on steel. The good ones that keep the health and safety guy happy blocks pretty much every bang regardless of how loud. Once you get used to them and use them properly (it's amazing how few people put them in their ears properly) you don't even know you have them on.

Judging by most of your previous posts, they'll solve 90% of your problems provided they're good soft ones and not those crappy yellow ones.



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20 Sep 2020, 11:03 am

I think the primary way society oppresses spectrumites is by relegating truth, logic, and reason to the dust bin in favor of strict power games, manipulation, Darwinian competition, and constant angling for short-term fitness payouts.

Now.... if we wanted to reclaim the world for sanity, as autists, we might want to think about saying that other people's forced unreason and social politicking is an intolerable form of oppression, that it impinges on our right to exist, and that covering all language in subterfuge or handling the survival race by stabbing the person in the legs whose running next to you rather than running in it (especially if they don't fit in socially) is a form of genocide against autistics. In this I actually beg to differ with Audre Lorde - you can take apart the master's house with the master's tools.


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Nades
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20 Sep 2020, 11:06 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I think the primary way society oppresses spectrumites is by relegating truth, logic, and reason to the dust bin in favor of strict power games, manipulation, Darwinian competition, and constant angling for short-term fitness payouts.

Now.... if we wanted to reclaim the world for sanity, as autists, we might want to think about saying that other people's forced unreason and social politicking is an intolerable form of oppression, that it impinges on our right to exist, and that covering all language in subterfuge or handling the survival race by stabbing the person in the legs whose running next to you rather than running in it (especially if they don't fit in socially) is a form of genocide against autistics. In this I actually beg to differ with Audre Lorde - you can take apart the master's house with the master's tools.


Lol what? The guy lives in an urban area by the looks of it where noise is inevitable. I think you're reading to much into his post.



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20 Sep 2020, 11:24 am

What seems like malice is usually just stupidity and insensitivity. They are not out to get you, but in a sense, you are. If you react as if someone neutral was hostile, they will become hostile. If you react in a friendly way, they may follow suit. It can be hard to switch and come off as sincere - it is best to practice on minor matters first.



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20 Sep 2020, 11:51 am

Society is too far about traffic in some places.

Cities that have pedestrianised areas are still loud and not aspie friendly sometimes.

But at least it is humans they are suiting and not lorries etc. At least they are usually quiet and aspie friendly during the week.

People still ought to think about how they spend their time. For the benefit of: autistic people they don't know, neurotypical people they don't know, their own people who care about themselves and even themselves. It is not healthy or helpful to be one of those people who gets drunk in the middle of the afternoon in a big gang or spend the whole weekend drinking. They really annoy me esp because I'm autistic and sound sensitive but they also annoy NT people. And they worry their loved ones. And it can't be doing their own livers any good.

It's not just autistic people either. Society is also oppressing the Deaf community when it puts too many roads in places so people who struggle to hear can't.

Some shops do tricks with music which are meant to annoy NTs but can be worse than that in autistic people. They play fast loud music. The idea is, to get the people moving in time with the music so they pick up the stuff they like at a pace which encourages them to move on to picking up the next item/get to the till rather than lingering. I know this cos I worked in a book shop which was sharing with a general shop and our managers used to argue about it in front of us. Bookshops do the opposite - they want you to linger, to get so hooked on a book you simply 'have' to buy it. So they use quiet, slow, classical music.

Retail experience is a designed one, not a natural one. But it is designed mostly thinking about NTs. Even the negative in-built features are built in order to annoy the customer a bit in order to influence their change. But with an NT in mind.


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techstepgenr8tion
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20 Sep 2020, 12:13 pm

Nades wrote:
Lol what? The guy lives in an urban area by the looks of it where noise is inevitable. I think you're reading to much into his post.

Not reading too much in, just taking my own riff on 'oppression' narratives - and I think mine was a really cool one that skeptics and rationalists who are horrified by what's happening right now in politics would probably sign on to.


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20 Sep 2020, 1:01 pm

No, not with any specific intention.


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20 Sep 2020, 6:22 pm

In as far as non-deliberate oppression exists, I suppose society does oppress with noise those on the spectrum who have particular difficulty tolerating noise, along with anybody else who has the same difficulty with it. And I'm happy with the use of the word "oppression" to describe any form of riding roughshod over people, whether it's deliberate or not, so to answer the OP's question, yes.

But maybe the OP is more wondering how much of a crying shame we judge it to be - oppression is usually seen as a shameful thing that "should" be stopped. I don't believe in "should be," because the term implies a notion of duty and moral absolutism, and I see that as a construct rather than a real entity. All I can objectively say is that I strongly dislike people making a lot of noise (if it reaches my ears or the ears of those who similarly dislike it), and in many situations where they do make such noise, I wouldn't hesitate to stop them if I had the power. Indeed I have sometimes had noisy neighbours shut down via the city council's Noise Team. I was glad to discover that they have certain statutory rules about noise that they're prepared to enforce if they can get evidence that the rules are being broken.

Sometimes they can't get proof, and sometimes the noise doesn't break the rules, and I've occasionally wished the rules were more stringent. Those car stereo systems appear to be exempt - I gather it's only an offence if the noise is coming from somebody's home or fixed property, not if it's coming from a vehicle on the street, which is a matter for the police, who don't seem very interested unless it's really extreme. That annoys me, as I don't see why they can't invent a device to quickly and cheaply detect the offender, and change the law to include motorists. I was also told that my ASD didn't make any difference to the statutory noise limits - they have their definitions of what's unacceptable, based on the general population who can probably tolerate noise more easily than I can.

As for the details of my sensitivity to noise, I've known for a long time that I can't think straight if I'm subjected to certain types of noise. I know it's not a matter of desensitising myself to it because I've been in various situations (notably in my workplace) where although there was strong pressure on me to think clearly (it was my job), the noise level made that impossible. At the time I had no idea I had ASD. I tried to adapt, but failed. Nobody was more upset about that than I was, but there was no help for it. Eventually I would simply down tools and leave the room until the noise had gone. It scared me to do that, and it took a lot to make me blatantly desert my tasks, but sticking around didn't work. Luckily for me my employer either was too compassionate, oblivious, or weak-willed to get on my case about it.

So, how much of a crying shame I judge all that to be, that's hard to answer definitively. I'm sure there are much nastier cases of oppression than noise. All I can say is that noise and the way people selfishly inflict it on each other is one of the reasons I feel somewhat ashamed of mainstream society. Noise pollution may seem trivial in the grand scheme of things, but that doesn't much alter the way I feel about it. I'm just glad I've usually been able to get away from it or get it stopped.



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20 Sep 2020, 6:28 pm

I think our own brains amplify the signals if you will. It feels unbecoming to me to be attributing blame to the whole world about something we should seek to deal with medicinally.


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20 Sep 2020, 10:19 pm

^
Didn't know there was a medicine for it, except maybe a general anaesthetic, which wouldn't be safe to use every day.



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21 Sep 2020, 6:03 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
In as far as non-deliberate oppression exists, I suppose society does oppress with noise those on the spectrum who have particular difficulty tolerating noise, along with anybody else who has the same difficulty with it. And I'm happy with the use of the word "oppression" to describe any form of riding roughshod over people, whether it's deliberate or not, so to answer the OP's question, yes.

But maybe the OP is more wondering how much of a crying shame we judge it to be - oppression is usually seen as a shameful thing that "should" be stopped. I don't believe in "should be," because the term implies a notion of duty and moral absolutism, and I see that as a construct rather than a real entity. All I can objectively say is that I strongly dislike people making a lot of noise (if it reaches my ears or the ears of those who similarly dislike it), and in many situations where they do make such noise, I wouldn't hesitate to stop them if I had the power. Indeed I have sometimes had noisy neighbours shut down via the city council's Noise Team. I was glad to discover that they have certain statutory rules about noise that they're prepared to enforce if they can get evidence that the rules are being broken.

Sometimes they can't get proof, and sometimes the noise doesn't break the rules, and I've occasionally wished the rules were more stringent. Those car stereo systems appear to be exempt - I gather it's only an offence if the noise is coming from somebody's home or fixed property, not if it's coming from a vehicle on the street, which is a matter for the police, who don't seem very interested unless it's really extreme. That annoys me, as I don't see why they can't invent a device to quickly and cheaply detect the offender, and change the law to include motorists. I was also told that my ASD didn't make any difference to the statutory noise limits - they have their definitions of what's unacceptable, based on the general population who can probably tolerate noise more easily than I can.

As for the details of my sensitivity to noise, I've known for a long time that I can't think straight if I'm subjected to certain types of noise. I know it's not a matter of desensitising myself to it because I've been in various situations (notably in my workplace) where although there was strong pressure on me to think clearly (it was my job), the noise level made that impossible. At the time I had no idea I had ASD. I tried to adapt, but failed. Nobody was more upset about that than I was, but there was no help for it. Eventually I would simply down tools and leave the room until the noise had gone. It scared me to do that, and it took a lot to make me blatantly desert my tasks, but sticking around didn't work. Luckily for me my employer either was too compassionate, oblivious, or weak-willed to get on my case about it.

So, how much of a crying shame I judge all that to be, that's hard to answer definitively. I'm sure there are much nastier cases of oppression than noise. All I can say is that noise and the way people selfishly inflict it on each other is one of the reasons I feel somewhat ashamed of mainstream society. Noise pollution may seem trivial in the grand scheme of things, but that doesn't much alter the way I feel about it. I'm just glad I've usually been able to get away from it or get it stopped.


I really don't think it's even unintentional oppression. For the most part normies also don't like loud noises and do a decent job of behaving and restraining themselves when it comes to making it. Only a very small minority of them actually don't care about the level of noise they make and a small minority hardly equals societal oppression.

OP has a general sensitivity to all noise as is evident from his previous posts. Car doors, garage doors, kids playing, noise coming in from windows of a large area but what can be done to realistically stop those noises? I cant think of anything to help other than ear plugs. When it gets that impractical the onus is on the OP to think of something to mitigate his discomfort.