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Ai_Ling
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06 Nov 2011, 3:24 pm

It seems that as a person on the spectrum, in order to succeed in this world, we need to become something we're not. It requires excruciating constant behavior modification. The only reason why Im sitting here today as a college graduate with a good degree, hope for a good paying job, having friends and hopefully someday the potential for a successful long term relationship is because I've been working my ass off since I was 17.

See I was selectively mute till I was 17. And I starting working because I didnt have any friends and I painfully wanted to be normal.

But when you think about it, all the tearing into the NT direction basically means I've been working my ass of into shaping myself into something I'm not? And I still have to continue cause I have hopes and dreams. I don't want to become a financial burden on the state. And all this NT BS about "be yourself", well if your on the spectrum it apparently doesn't apply.

Does anyone else feel like this?



Radiofixr
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06 Nov 2011, 3:45 pm

I have stopped acting and hiding who I am-I also was told by someone who is also on the spectrum that my personality was a problem-I am on the spectrum-come on-I think this person is actually ashamed to admit to being on the spectrum.


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Ann2011
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06 Nov 2011, 4:38 pm

Ai_Ling wrote:
It seems that as a person on the spectrum, in order to succeed in this world, we need to become something we're not. It requires excruciating constant behavior modification.


It is so frustrating. I know I'm whining but why for one iota of a second can't an NT think that I might have a legitimate point of view. I am so sick of trying to be accepted by people who I think don't have as much perspective as I do. I know I'm ranting, but your post struck a nerve.



shyengineer
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06 Nov 2011, 4:48 pm

I feel like that everyday, and I'm in a very similar position and age to you so I can relate. Being a grad is a particularly bad time because there is huge social pressure to conform to company culture, network etc. It is exhausting (I'm sitting in my room right now instead of being out and about doing what I'm supposed to do because I don't have the energy to fake it today), but I find it gets better each week and that I am happier that I'm more capable out in the world. Don't forget that NT's have to "fake it till they make it" too, so many of these strange social gatherings and conventions are not most NT's cup-of-tea either.

Maybe you just need to find people you can relate to so you can be more of yourself. For example, I hate the corporate scene (dress codes + politics) so I'm trying to find a job that is more down-to-earth in a small company where there are often odd, but very intelligent and creative people. As for friends, try join some sort of club that interests you - I have made a great group of friends this way, and some of them have even met their girlfriends/wives this way too.

Finally, some people are just idiots or a**holes and there is nothing you can do.



Rhiannon0828
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06 Nov 2011, 4:49 pm

The fact that I am not acceptable as I am has been a long-time source of depression for me; that's part of what prompted me to start trying to figure out why I was different. For a long time I believed the "just be yourself" lie. I thought, "I am a smart, educated person who wants to do a good job for myself ,my company and my customer. I am kind, respectful, dedicated and creative. I am a hard worker. Why should I not do well at my job and get along with my co-workers?" I spent years not understanding why I was failing. As much as I hate to give into cynicism, I think I have figured it out. My bosses don't want me to be who I am. They want me to be someone I'm not. They want me to be like everyone else, playing the social climb-the-ladder games, superficial and insincere, conformist and complacent. They want a drone that they can predict and control. And what crushes my soul is that if I want to have gainful employment, pay my bills and live the life I want to have outside of work, that is what I must be, at least for that sizable portion of hours that I am at work. And I can at no time while at work let on that I am anything different.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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06 Nov 2011, 4:53 pm

Ai_Ling wrote:
It seems that as a person on the spectrum, in order to succeed in this world, we need to become something we're not. It requires excruciating constant behavior modification.
[...]
Does anyone else feel like this?


Sure. "Be yourself," only applies if you're part of the majority that the world is designed to serve. If you aren't one of those people, you quickly learn how badly "be yourself" fails. (It doesn't even serve all NT's.) But, ultimately, you do have to pay some respect to who you really are -- whether the world likes it or not.

I got myself into a fru-fru university and majored and physics and did ok, but by the time I was done I was so fried that my cognitive faculties had gone offline (i.e. couldn't read anything more than a paragraph long and comprehend it, let alone do physics). That was a result of not only pushing hard to do the academic work, but also trying to "normalize" my behavior as much as possible, i.e. movements, tone of voice, speed of comprehension, speed of speech, pushing into stressful situations, and a dozen other things (including covering up all the resulting stress & exhaustion). I did all that as much as possible, ithout ever taking a break. I didn't know what I was fighting, but thought if I "flogged" it hard enough it would die, and then I would become normal. After a while it was hard to remember who I was.

But, the truth of things reasserted itself harder and harder until I had no choice but to acknowledge it. My intellectual talents were about all I had going for me, and that is what shut down the hardest (and it has stayed that way for many years). So, I had to figure out a more balanced way.

I am in no way trying to discouraging people from pushing themselves. I did learn a lot of critical life skills, and that was a good thing. In my teens, I couldn't even deal with checkers at the grocery store, or librarians.

I do mean to argue against "normalization at all costs," though. (Not that you/OP said that.) There can be a literal cost that is higher than you imagine, and which is almost certainly higher than what the NT's around you can imagine (including family, doctors, and other who are supposed to be helpful).



Ai_Ling
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06 Nov 2011, 5:07 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
Ai_Ling wrote:
It seems that as a person on the spectrum, in order to succeed in this world, we need to become something we're not. It requires excruciating constant behavior modification.
[...]
Does anyone else feel like this?


I got myself into a fru-fru university and majored and physics and did ok, but by the time I was done I was so fried that my cognitive faculties had gone offline (i.e. couldn't read anything more than a paragraph long and comprehend it, let alone do physics). That was a result of not only pushing hard to do the academic work, but also trying to "normalize" my behavior as much as possible, i.e. movements, tone of voice, speed of comprehension, speed of speech, pushing into stressful situations, and a dozen other things (including covering up all the resulting stress & exhaustion). I did all that as much as possible, ithout ever taking a break. I didn't know what I was fighting, but thought if I "flogged" it hard enough it would die, and then I would become normal. After a while it was hard to remember who I was.

I do mean to argue against "normalization at all costs," though. (Not that you/OP said that.) There can be a literal cost that is higher than you imagine, and which is almost certainly higher than what the NT's around you can imagine (including family, doctors, and other who are supposed to be helpful).


Yeah I guess I have to be careful so I don't come into a burnout. My last semester of my senior year, I came into a near burnout. Thankfully 2 profs who were helping me knew I had asperger's so that helped. 1 profs daughter is borderline aspie, the other prof is an educational specialist who works with people on the spectrum(on the side). I was trying to manage doing well academically and well socially. Eventually I became so exahuasted, I dropped the social part 90% of the way and focused on the academic part. I became so angry about why I couldnt be myself and that anger held for months later and later. Its only recently I've starting to overcome it. \

If I continued, I would have went in for a burnout.

And about the normalization at all costs, its funny I work my ass off for normalization and people still expect more out of me.

One of the most important things I had to learn about myself is that I have executive functioning limits and working socially counts as work. For so many NTs being social is not work, its like breathing. And working socially can contribute to a burnout as well.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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06 Nov 2011, 5:56 pm

Ai_Ling wrote:
Yeah I guess I have to be careful so I don't come into a burnout. My last semester of my senior year, I came into a near burnout. Thankfully 2 profs who were helping me knew I had asperger's so that helped. 1 profs daughter is borderline aspie, the other prof is an educational specialist who works with people on the spectrum(on the side). I was trying to manage doing well academically and well socially. Eventually I became so exahuasted, I dropped the social part 90% of the way and focused on the academic part. I became so angry about why I couldnt be myself and that anger held for months later and later. Its only recently I've starting to overcome it. \

When your needs are not "allowed" by the world, yeah, that is definitely anger-inducing. That's cool about those 2 profs, though.
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And about the normalization at all costs, its funny I work my ass off for normalization and people still expect more out of me.

Heh, yeah, the price of success is people taking it for granted and then expecting more.



aspie48
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06 Nov 2011, 6:16 pm

jeez i feel like this all the time. the cost of being self aware and having life goals is that you get these feelings. i miss the days when i was a kid before i got diagnosed or had to care about the future.



hanyo
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06 Nov 2011, 6:18 pm

Ai_Ling wrote:
And about the normalization at all costs, its funny I work my ass off for normalization and people still expect more out of me.


That's why I like to keep people's expectations of me low. If you do too much they just expect more. If you don't do much they might be thrilled if you just manage to shower and get dressed and actually leave the house.



aspie48
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06 Nov 2011, 8:10 pm

hanyo wrote:
Ai_Ling wrote:
And about the normalization at all costs, its funny I work my ass off for normalization and people still expect more out of me.


That's why I like to keep people's expectations of me low. If you do too much they just expect more. If you don't do much they might be thrilled if you just manage to shower and get dressed and actually leave the house.

uhhh that has its costs too. pretty high sometimes.



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06 Nov 2011, 8:28 pm

Maybe it was better not to have a diagnosis. When I was twenty, you could be a hippie, "tune in, Turn on, Drop out", and being yourself, finding yourself, was a peer socially approved destination. Of course, I never did finish college, but a lot of hippies did, and dropped back in, with their life changed. It was a whole different scene to what you folks are going through, and hippies were in general contemptuous of the fakery and the rat race.

But without there being any such thing as Asperger's or HFA, I didn't really have a clue that "being myself" was all _that_ different from anybody else.


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MrXxx
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06 Nov 2011, 8:33 pm

Oh, I really have to disagree with the OP.

Just take a look at a list of highly successful, recognizable names of people confirmed to have Autism.

They didn't get where they are by conforming.

Personally, I think conforming is one of the worst things we do for ourselves. It may stop a lot of the external pressure, but it also squashes who we really are.

It's pretty rare though, that any of us has the strength and endurance to remain who we are in spite of all the external pressure.

Most of us try to conform enough to lessen the pressure on ourselves, but in the process, lose our self esteem and our identities.

Pretty sad, and it won't stop until those of use who really CAN speak for ourselves, DO SO.

Personally, I believe that it is directly due to the fact that so many of us do go along with efforts to convince us to conform, that is the reason so many of us are NOT successful.


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06 Nov 2011, 8:39 pm

It shouldn't be that way, but it is.