No wonder most Aspies have such low self-esteem!

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13 Nov 2011, 11:04 am

NT behavior may seem discernable but when trying to assimilate and anticipate thier behavior with written rules , we fail because humans are capricious and to them it's natural.

My suggestion is do what's natural for yourself , and if someone looks at you , thier is no need to live under rules that tell you not to look back when your not suppose to just because they make you feel unvarying, just look back , who cares.

No wonder I have such high self-esteem.



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13 Nov 2011, 11:17 am

"Why can't you be more like your brothers??!"

I used to hear that bullshit almost everyday when I was growing up...maybe if my brothers were more like me they wouldn't be such cowards and actually stand up and face the music once in a while when they do something wrong, instead of endlessly having all the fun times and leaving me with the blame.



monstermunch
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13 Nov 2011, 2:56 pm

Joe90 wrote:
And don't say ''it's not what you say it's the way you say it'' or ''you probably do it at the wrong time'' because it's not about that. I am good at mimicking NT behaviour, and I observe NT behaviour every day, and I know what's right and what's wrong. I'm not sure if it all just depends on how popular you are, but it just seems so unfair how NTs can get away with being rude ot nasty to us but we're never allowed to rude or nasty to anyone else without us being considered ''the problem''.

Here's some examples:-

An Aspie girl learns it is inappropriate to stare at other people and so she doesn't do it, she only glances up at people to see who they are then looks away and carries on going about her business. But she catches people staring at her quite often, even though she knows full well that she doesn't go out looking unusual or acting in any notable way that is considered noticable and weird. So she learns that staring at other people is inappropriate, but other people staring at her is totally appropriate, and so this damage her self-esteem and gets her into a state and makes herself feel hated.

Another scenario is, an Aspie boy has learnt never to accidentally insult people by giving their honest opinion on their behaviour or looks, but he gets NTs criticising him non-stop about his behaviour and how he looks, so thinking it's OK for people to point out all of his quirks but him never being allowed to point out anybody else's quirks makes him feel very downhearted about himself and makes him actually believe that he's bad, causing self-esteem issues.

Anyone with me on this? There are loads of other examples like these to put down, but these are all I can think of at the moment and they actually describe the way I feel but I changed it to third person because it makes it look less like I'm just ranting on. Is this why some of us, including me, suffer with self-esteem issues?


You must learn that just because NTs do it, doesn't mean it's appropriate.



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13 Nov 2011, 3:23 pm

negative thread titles dont help people here, at all

its heartless to whip others so



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13 Nov 2011, 3:31 pm

High school doesn't stop at high school.
People that have spent their entire lives fitting in have no personality of their own, no actions of their own, no brain of their own. Their friendships are highly superficial and they whine when their friends turn on them too.

You do need friends. We all do. Just not them. Find people more like you and don't turn around and mistreat that new friend out of spite of how others have treated you.

They bend the rules.

When people see that you have friends and people that care about you, they will leave you alone.



paddy26
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13 Nov 2011, 3:56 pm

Great post by the op. It got me thinking that maybe some people see socializing as a game and use double standards in order to confuse aspies. Also I find being told that I need to be more confident a little bit under meaning. I could just be over analyzing things though. I think the majority of people are pretty easy going and acceptable to my quirks its just I sometimes seem to attract the wrong sort.



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14 Nov 2011, 5:04 pm

Well it's so annoying when I'm expected to think of other people's feelings, but other people don't give a crap when it comes to my feelings. If somebody huff and sighs at me and makes me feel uncomfortable, it's always ''ohh maybe they're having a bad day'', in other words I have to respect their feelings and let them huff and sigh at me. But when I'm having a bad day and I happen to just give a little tut, it's a different story. It's always ''smile more, stop acting so irritated, you're drawing attention to yourself'', even though I'm more sensitive than the average person and so I naturally get more uncomfortable when other people react harshly, but I don't react half as harshly as what I've seen others do, but I'm still expected to give myself up to make everyone else happy when I'm out.
For example yesterday in the supermarket I was choosing something off the shelf then just gently stepped back into somebody's trolley and it moved an inch, it was just a little error, and I said sorry, but the woman who was pushing the trolley just tutted, and I made myself think, ''I will ignore her, maybe she's feeling a bit irritated or something'', but then a few minutes later I was just coming out of one of the aisles when somebody knocked right into me with their trolley (and they were moving so fast), and I hurt my rib, and I just pulled a frown and the person pushing the trolley looked at me as though my small reaction was wrong. I bet they didn't think, ''oh maybe she reacted negatively because she's having a bad day or something''. No - nobody ever thinks that.

I really cannot make it out. It's like they see a common trait in any humans but consider it a visible Aspie trait in Aspies and puts it down all over the diagnostic criteria, and you feel like saying, ''hold on a minute - I see people doing that all the time.''

I think quirks aren't that visible in NTs. I will never know why. This is why I don't like having Asperger's. You can never win.
And this is what is making me feel that it is an Aspie trait to have too much empathy. I can read body language well. If somebody is coming towards me looking a bit apprehensive or unconfident or nervous with their head down, I look away from them because I think to myself, ''maybe they're looking like that because they might not want to look at anyone or catch anybody looking at them, so I'm not going to make them feel even more nervous by staring at him. Maybe something bad has happened in his life and he's feeling a bit upset or unsociable at this moment'', but when the boot is on the other foot (which it normally is), nobody has empathy or sympathy or whatever these words are, and nobody considers my feelings. They just think they can stare at me to their heart's content and not give a crap about how I may be feeling.

People just think I was born yesterday.


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14 Nov 2011, 5:33 pm

What Joe90 describes is what I see all the time in people. I see the black and white thinking people do, the rigidness, the lack of empathy, misreading people, etc. and it confuses me. I cannot tell the difference between an aspie doing it and an NT. It's like AS doesn't even exist but I know it does exist and I see myself as normal because if everyone else has traits, then I am normal and it's no different when I do it. I cannot tell when it's my AS or just me being normal because everyone does it. Maybe when you are moderate or severe, then it's obvious but when you are mild, you have a hard time knowing the difference.

My defense always is "Isn't anyone like that?" "Wouldn't NTs do that too" "What's the difference between me and NTs doing it?" "Normal people do it too."



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14 Nov 2011, 6:38 pm

"You're not like other people, you know." I remember the first time I heard that and how it stunned me. The voice was full of scorn. No wonder I would hide away, try to make myself invisible. While Aspies can be blunt, it's not with scorn or attitude, it's just the facts. But NTs seem to like to be blunt with a knife edge, cutting right through you. It would be easy to get down on myself, but I know I'm better than that. I know I'm better than them.


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14 Nov 2011, 9:41 pm

monstermunch wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
And don't say ''it's not what you say it's the way you say it'' or ''you probably do it at the wrong time'' because it's not about that. I am good at mimicking NT behaviour, and I observe NT behaviour every day, and I know what's right and what's wrong. I'm not sure if it all just depends on how popular you are, but it just seems so unfair how NTs can get away with being rude ot nasty to us but we're never allowed to rude or nasty to anyone else without us being considered ''the problem''.

Here's some examples:-

An Aspie girl learns it is inappropriate to stare at other people and so she doesn't do it, she only glances up at people to see who they are then looks away and carries on going about her business. But she catches people staring at her quite often, even though she knows full well that she doesn't go out looking unusual or acting in any notable way that is considered noticable and weird. So she learns that staring at other people is inappropriate, but other people staring at her is totally appropriate, and so this damage her self-esteem and gets her into a state and makes herself feel hated.

Another scenario is, an Aspie boy has learnt never to accidentally insult people by giving their honest opinion on their behaviour or looks, but he gets NTs criticising him non-stop about his behaviour and how he looks, so thinking it's OK for people to point out all of his quirks but him never being allowed to point out anybody else's quirks makes him feel very downhearted about himself and makes him actually believe that he's bad, causing self-esteem issues.

Anyone with me on this? There are loads of other examples like these to put down, but these are all I can think of at the moment and they actually describe the way I feel but I changed it to third person because it makes it look less like I'm just ranting on. Is this why some of us, including me, suffer with self-esteem issues?


You must learn that just because NTs do it, doesn't mean it's appropriate.


Well then why don't they get penalized for it? the issue I see is it seems sometimes it seems like people with AS or autism are expected to uphold a higher standard than the NT kids........Why is it we are expected to follow the rules, and work extra hard not to make social mistakes when NTs are not held to the same standard. I am not officially diagnosed and was not as a child either so no one knew quite what was going on with me but even I seemed to get the 'well you have to follow all the rules because you're not quite like the other students, but we'll give the normal students slack when they mess up because well they are worth more to society than you' attitude. when I went to elementary/middle school.

Now I don't follow all the rules........why should I follow what society defines as right and wrong when even normal people are not held to that standard? is a question that should be asked.



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14 Nov 2011, 10:26 pm

You bring up a very good point and I noticed these things as a kid. There were always kids who could get away with anything and others who could get away with nothing. It didn't seem fair. I am sure the ones who got hypercritical responses from others suffered eroding self esteem while those who were never criticised developed a positive image of themselves.



Alevai
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08 Oct 2014, 12:26 pm

Joe90 wrote:
And don't say ''it's not what you say it's the way you say it'' or ''you probably do it at the wrong time'' because it's not about that. I am good at mimicking NT behaviour, and I observe NT behaviour every day, and I know what's right and what's wrong. I'm not sure if it all just depends on how popular you are, but it just seems so unfair how NTs can get away with being rude ot nasty to us but we're never allowed to rude or nasty to anyone else without us being considered ''the problem''.

Here's some examples:-

An Aspie girl learns it is inappropriate to stare at other people and so she doesn't do it, she only glances up at people to see who they are then looks away and carries on going about her business. But she catches people staring at her quite often, even though she knows full well that she doesn't go out looking unusual or acting in any notable way that is considered noticable and weird. So she learns that staring at other people is inappropriate, but other people staring at her is totally appropriate, and so this damage her self-esteem and gets her into a state and makes herself feel hated.

Another scenario is, an Aspie boy has learnt never to accidentally insult people by giving their honest opinion on their behaviour or looks, but he gets NTs criticising him non-stop about his behaviour and how he looks, so thinking it's OK for people to point out all of his quirks but him never being allowed to point out anybody else's quirks makes him feel very downhearted about himself and makes him actually believe that he's bad, causing self-esteem issues.

Anyone with me on this? There are loads of other examples like these to put down, but these are all I can think of at the moment and they actually describe the way I feel but I changed it to third person because it makes it look less like I'm just ranting on. Is this why some of us, including me, suffer with self-esteem issues?


Having a low self-esteem is not any worse than having a false self-esteem based on outside forces like a high-earning job, a beautiful wife, and a college degree. Because eventually those things lose value as well only to meet the person with a trainwreck of a depression later in life... think mid-life crisis.

I have made a concious decision not to waste friendships on Neurotypicals. I will only befriend/talk to other aspies. This way, we are on the same level and there is more understanding and TRUE friendship



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11 Jul 2019, 4:21 pm

One rule for us Aspies and another one for allistic people. I have experienced such double standards It isn't fair but that, is allistic society. Welcome to Babylon :?:



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11 Jul 2019, 4:37 pm

One thing that annoys me is when people say "Think positive" when there is really no objective reason to be positive in the given situation. "You blew it!" is harsh, but much more truthful at the moment.



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11 Jul 2019, 4:49 pm

"We all learn at our own pace." That hurts when you're the slow learner, especially at social things, when you're not slow otherwise.

These days, most things people say to bolster my self-confidence winds up having the opposite effect, driving me deeper into a hole. Only positive action, not words, will help me move forward at this point.