Do Intelligent People Automatically Fall on the Spectrum?

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Ganondox
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26 Nov 2011, 8:59 pm

Are to you positive that she didn't say that most people on the spectrum are of above average intelligence, as that makes a lot more sense?


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OliveOilMom
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26 Nov 2011, 9:03 pm

Ganondox wrote:
Are to you positive that she didn't say that most people on the spectrum are of above average intelligence, as that makes a lot more sense?


Holy crap, it took three pages for one of us to come up with this.

But yes, it really does make more sense.

Frances



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26 Nov 2011, 9:09 pm

idlewild wrote:
I'm trying to decide if I want a diagnosis and I spoke to a friend in who's worked in HR for many yearsfor advice. Apart from the professional input she gave me, she told me she has a sister that works in special education who told her that almost anyone with higher than average intelligence falls on the autistic spectrum.

Do you think this is true?


No.

Intelligent and introverted, maybe.



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26 Nov 2011, 10:10 pm

http://www.sengifted.org/articles_socia ... tten.shtml

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You know at least one or perhaps are one: the child who immediately, when he comes home from school, escapes to the privacy of his room for time alone; the speaker who presents beautifully in front of 1200 people but who leaves a few minutes into the social hour because he says he can't deal with large groups of people; the quiet student who always has a book in hand, commonly plays alone, and whose favorite place is the reading corner; the adult who is vocal and social in a small group of people but who becomes silent and withdrawn if she is made to work in a larger one; the adolescent with only one best friend who lives in another city or state and who is content with that situation; or the individual who when attending a conference or convention can only take so much socializing and hustle and has to retreat to the privacy of her hotel room to 're-center' herself.
These are just some examples of introverted individuals. These aren't simply shy people, although certainly many are shy. They also are not simply depressed individuals, although introverts just as extraverts can be depressed. And they aren't all social outcasts, although it may appear this way to the extraverts who need that ongoing social contact to be healthy and happy. Introversion is not a pathological condition; it is not an abnormal response to the world. It is simply a personality trait found in a small percentage of the total population. Introverts are different from extraverts and this difference is very difficult for the extravert to understand because they do not operate in that fashion. And because they do not understand it, many continually try to help the introvert become more social, more gregarious, more outgoing, and have more fun from the extravert perspective. Such is the situation of the introvert, a minority in the regular population but a majority in the gifted population (Gallagher, 1990; Hoehn & Birely, 1988). And that difference from the 'norm' is the reason this factor needs to be considered when developing educational programs and parenting strategies for gifted students.


http://www.agateny.com/Article_SocialSkills.html

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Gifted children are often accused of being social misfits. However, most of their social problems arise when they do not fit with the surrounding children: gifted children lack true peers rather than lacking peer relationship skills. This means, then, that one of the main ways to foster these children's relationships with other youngsters is for them to have access at least occasionally to like-minded peers. As children of all ages and ability levels choose friends who share their interests and can interact with them reciprocally, gifted children are most likely to form friendships with other gifted children. This means that subject or grade skipping at school or early entry to the next level of schooling can be crucial measures - not only for some children's academic stimulation but also for their social inclusion. It also means that in the years prior to school, children are particularly vulnerable to social difficulties as most children who share their developmental level are already at school and so are inaccessible.

The social difficulties that have been observed in some gifted children include the following:

* Because of their advanced language and conceptual skills, some are highly directive ('bossy') in their play with others, which is not always well received by their play mates.
* Typically, gifted children have play interests in advance of surrounding children with the result that they cannot share similar play activities, resulting in the social isolation of gifted children.
* Some expect of others the same high performances that they demand of themselves, which other people find too demanding.
* Many seek out adult company when like-minded peers are not available.
* Some might need to learn to be tactful about parading their skills in front of less able classmates; however, the more common difficulty is that children are too reticent about displaying their talents as they know that these will be disparaged.
* Some are disparaged by average learners, whereby they feel that in order to fit in socially, they must underperform.
* Some gifted children are placed in leadership roles because they have the intellectual, social or problem-solving skills to lead successfully. However, leadership is conferred voluntarily by followers - and surrounding children might not receive positively the placement of gifted children in leadership positions, while the gifted children themselves often do not want this role. Also, one must guard against the 'Robin Hood' effect of robbing time from gifted children as they support less able students: all children have a right to be working at their developmental level.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectu ... #Isolation

Quote:
Generally, gifted individuals learn more quickly, deeply, and broadly than their peers. Gifted children may learn to read early and operate at the same level as normal children who are significantly older. The gifted tend to demonstrate high reasoning ability, creativity, curiosity, a large vocabulary, and an excellent memory. They can often master concepts with few repetitions. They may also be physically and emotionally sensitive, perfectionistic, and may frequently question authority. Some have trouble relating to or communicating with their peers because of disparities in vocabulary size (especially in the early years), personality, interests and motivation. As children, they may prefer the company of older children or adults.[14]

Giftedness is frequently not evenly distributed throughout all intellectual spheres; an individual may excel in solving logic problems and yet be a poor speller; another gifted individual may be able to read and write at a far above average level and yet have trouble with mathematics. It is possible there are different types of giftedness with their own unique features, just as there are different types of developmental delay.

Many gifted individuals experience various types of heightened awareness and may seem overly sensitive. These sensitivities may be to physical senses such as sight, sound, smell, movement and touch. For example, they may be extremely uncomfortable when they have a wrinkle in their sock, or unable to concentrate because of the sound of a clock ticking on the other side of the room. Sensitivities of the gifted are often to mental and emotional over-awareness. For example, picking up on the feelings of someone close to them, having extreme sensitivity to their own internal emotions, and taking in external information at a significantly higher rate than those around them. These various kinds of sensitivities often mean that the more gifted an individual is, the more input and awareness they experience, leading to the contradiction of them needing more time to process than others who are not gifted.[16]

Hypersensitivity to external or internal stimuli can resemble a proneness to "sensory overload", which can cause such persons to avoid highly stimulating, chaotic or crowded environments. This kind of highly sensitive nature has also been called "overexcitability" by Kazimierz Dabrowski. Some are able to tune out such unwanted stimulation as they focus on their chosen task or on their own thoughts. In many cases, awareness may fluctuate between conditions of hyperstimulation and of withdrawal. (An individual's tendencies to feel overwhelmed is also affected by their extraversion and introversion.)

These conditions may appear to be very similar to symptoms of hyperactivity, bipolar disorder, ADHD, autism-spectrum conditions, and other psychological disorders, but are often explained by gifted education professionals by reference to Kazimierz Dabrowski's theory of Positive Disintegration.[17] Some researchers focus on the study of overexcitabilities. Overexcitabilities refer to ways people, both children and adults, understand and experience the world around them (Gross 2008). The more channels of overexcitabilities that are open to receive the information or stimulus, the stronger or more intense the experience is.

According to Gross (2008), an individual response to a stimulus is determined by his/her dominant overexcitability. Overexcitabilities are expressed in five dimensions: psychomotor, sensual, intellectual, imaginational, and emotional. These dominant channels of acquiring information differ by quantity in some individuals.[18]


Gee, this sounds NOTHING like AS. :roll:


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Last edited by SammichEater on 26 Nov 2011, 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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26 Nov 2011, 10:11 pm

Intelligence connected with AS? That is a bogus proposition.


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26 Nov 2011, 10:13 pm

I very highly doubt this! I know MANY very intelligent people who are no where close to being on the autism spectrum.


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26 Nov 2011, 10:23 pm

Irony: it used to be "dumb" people that were the stereotype of autism (no matter the islet of ability).



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26 Nov 2011, 11:27 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Are to you positive that she didn't say that most people on the spectrum are of above average intelligence, as that makes a lot more sense?


Holy crap, it took three pages for one of us to come up with this.

But yes, it really does make more sense.

Frances


Also, it makes more sense as I've heard this said to people with other mental disorders where the afflicted people tend to be intelligent, but they might need to be explicity told so to boost their self-esteem, such as dyslexia.


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27 Nov 2011, 1:59 am

No. I know plenty of very, very intelligent people who are socially skilled, flexible, spontaneous, handle change well, have a wide variety of interests- i.e.- not autistic.


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27 Nov 2011, 2:11 am

At the moment I dont' have the link ( it was posted here btw), but if the stat is correct then approximately 25% of Apergerians score in the superior range. That's 120 + or in the 90th percentile. Looking at the bell curve @ the 120 mark makes 10 percent of the typical population score in this range or greater>. On side two of the coin, though, I wonder if this bell curve indicates the other 25 percent score * 80 *?



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27 Nov 2011, 10:13 am

Ganondox wrote:
Are to you positive that she didn't say that most people on the spectrum are of above average intelligence, as that makes a lot more sense?


No, that's not what she said. She pretty much said anyone with high intelligence would be diagnosed with Asperger's. That it was a byproduct of high intelligence.



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27 Nov 2011, 10:28 am

idlewild wrote:
........ she has a sister that works in special education who told her that almost anyone with higher than average intelligence falls on the autistic spectrum.

Do you think this is true?


This sister works in special education. Therefore it's quite likely that all of the high IQ children that she works with in special education fall on the autism spectrum. It looks like she wildly over generalized. I'm sure that in a school's special education department, the highest IQ children getting services from that department will be autistic. This does not hold true of the larger world.



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27 Nov 2011, 1:48 pm

idlewild wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Are to you positive that she didn't say that most people on the spectrum are of above average intelligence, as that makes a lot more sense?


No, that's not what she said. She pretty much said anyone with high intelligence would be diagnosed with Asperger's. That it was a byproduct of high intelligence.


If that's what she said, she's full of crap. Just goes to show you that just because people hold certain positions and titles does not mean they have any clue what they are talking about even in their own field.

There are idiots EVERYWHERE.


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27 Nov 2011, 2:27 pm

Before I could even begin to answer that question, I would need to know how we are defining "intelligence."

Personally, I don't believe in a "general intelligence." There are only people with various strengths that may or may not come into play in relation to certain, highly specific situations. Beyond that, there is no "overall intelligence" that can be mapped on a line ranging from "stupid" on one end to "smart" on the other.

Besides, what is considered "smart" at any given time in history has a direct relation to what the culture in question finds "valuable." Currently, in the U.S., people who design cell phone apps are graced with the honorific of "intelligent person" because we value cell phone apps. People who write poetry are not "intelligent people" because we do not currently value poetry as much as we value cell phones. Sad, but true.

Anyway, to answer your question, I do not believe "intelligent people" are all Aspies because, for the most part, I don't actually believe in "intelligent people."

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27 Nov 2011, 5:06 pm

^ That's like saying the world is flat.

There are short people. There are tall people.

There are people with blue eyes. There are people with green eyes.

There are young people. There are old people.

Some people are fat, some are not.

Some people have hair, some do not.

Some people can run, others cannot.

Some people have AS, some do not.

Some people can think for themselves. Others cannot.

All I'm saying is that there is some correlation between the last two. Not totally, mind you, but some. :wink:


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27 Nov 2011, 7:04 pm

Ganondox wrote:
Are to you positive that she didn't say that most people on the spectrum are of above average intelligence, as that makes a lot more sense?


This makes even less sense, attending that a substantial share of people in autistic spectrum are mentally ret*d (or, at least, appears to be in the formal tests),.