Female Aspies= Borderline personality disorder??

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Yunilimo
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19 Sep 2012, 3:14 am

Eloa wrote:
Sometimes in connection with BPD it can be hard to really identify "a trauma", but it is rather a pathological form of upbringing.
There are different types of attachment and one is "disorientated/disorganized attachment".
This one is called per definition as being traumatic without a trauma in the closer definition of trauma having occured.
Secondly, but this refers close to "disorientated/disorganized attachment" there is the so called "double bind", in which the child is continuously receiving conflicting information from the attachment figure.
This can also be categorize as being traumatic, though no trauma per definition did occur.
These two can also result in BPD.


Thank you, that is enlightening. But my question remains... what if a child with a neurological patterning which puts it on the autism spectrum, is brought up with conflicting signals from the environment, is unsafely attached? Should I then believe that autistics are too much 'in their own world' to notice what's going on in their (dysfunctional) family environment? I find that hard to accept, since many aspies have a very hard time dealing with bullying while growing up and beyond... but apparently it isn"t easy to find people who have both things - dysfunctional family and autism - to deal with, or who are willing to consider/talk about it. It's like, to talk about trauma and attachment issues, you need a whole other forum (and there are plenty of those out there, granted), whereas it seems to me that nature (neurology) and nurture are intrinsically connected. Oh well, I'm probably ranting a bit, never mind :)



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19 Sep 2012, 4:17 am

Just as a general comment on meltdowns and being mis-dignosed....

Women often go undiagnosed with Autism/Asperger’s. I would recommend reading up in this area more to see if you fit this area ie such as reading the book "Asperger Girls" or other such works.

Also, try to observe what triggers the meltdowns? Is it something within the family or environment? Once you know the triggers you can be more cognizant of one pending and try to relax or control more through various methods.

From my own negative experiences with psychologists, I think I was being misdiagnosed and the treatments were not good though I rarely took medications other than Ritalin and that was for a brief time.

---

Also, it is a common trend for women to perceive misdiagnosed which is really sad and says something about our society more.....

I would also say for women to trust their instincts and if a diagnosis appears incorrect to get another; most likely from a person who deals from birth handicaps and /or autism specifically. I think psychologists/ social works are not commonly trained in these topics enough to have proper perspectives.



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19 Sep 2012, 7:32 am

Hui, I have my old diagnoses again! :D

I was by a new psychiatrist today, because I wanted to have something for my sleepdisturbance.
And he talked with me for nearly an hour and he couldn't find any Borderline behaviour in me and didn't even think that I could have something like this. He meant that I don't act at all like this. :D

He also thought that I could have Bipolar (I even didn't mantioned it, that I think that way, but just my behaviour and what I described), but that it's not really clear now because of my other stressors I have at the moment and that we have to wait now and just diagnosed depressions at the moment and wants to wait and see.
He first thought about giving me lithium, but because I have an operation soon and also he wants to wait in how far my depressions get better when I have less stress and so on, he first wants to wait and wants to see me again in 4 weeks.
But he supscribed me agomelatonine for the moment.

He also didn't diagnose me with a traumadiagnosis at the moment, because he first want's to see how my symptoms develop without getting triggered all the time anymore. I clearly have and had those symptoms but it's not clear how they will develop far away from the environment that triggered me after the trauma for nearly two years.
I have the feeling he is very carefull in diagnosing and stuff and I like that. :D

Oh man, I'm totally happy now! :cheers:


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19 Sep 2012, 12:13 pm

I was diagnosed with borderline once in my youth, but I do have some sort of cyclic mood disorder as well as OCD and moderate to severe ASD and ADD. I have to take several meds just to keep me functional. It took 6 years of agonizing medicine adjusting to get the right combo.
Geodon -mood stabilizer
Zoloft -OCD, depression
Adderall- ADD and helps with autistic inertia
Carbatrol-eplepsy and helps as a mood stabilizer as well.

However, unlike true bipolar, I can recognize when I am manic and can take steps to stablize my mood but I dont experience alot of other symptoms of borderline PD, like people with borderline always feel as though they are the victim even when they are not being victimzed. A person with BPD will turn just about any situation, conversation etc into perceiving they are somehow a victim It is a perceptional disorder that has wild mood swings. Example, my half sister has BPD, so I know this all too well. She gets BPD from her father's side, they act nearly identical.
Anyway, on with the example, Mom was talking about buying a guest cottage for my sister to stay in when she came to visit so she and her husband can have some privacy and have space without our animals which she is allergic to.
Mom told her this, and her responce was startling..."look G, she is going to stick us out back!"
That was not my mother's intentions at all, but my sister percieved that mom was wanting to build her a guest cottage to keep her away from family functions. You also cant argue logicly with a person who thinks like this. Everything you say and do will be used against you.

Jojo


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Raziel
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19 Sep 2012, 12:34 pm

jojobean wrote:
However, unlike true bipolar, I can recognize when I am manic and can take steps to stablize my mood but I dont experience alot of other symptoms of borderline PD


Well, also a lot of people with bipolar know when they are hypomanic. With mania it gets more difficult, just regulating it is just possible until a certain degree.

jojobean wrote:
Anyway, on with the example, Mom was talking about buying a guest cottage for my sister to stay in when she came to visit so she and her husband can have some privacy and have space without our animals which she is allergic to.
Mom told her this, and her responce was startling..."look G, she is going to stick us out back!"
That was not my mother's intentions at all, but my sister percieved that mom was wanting to build her a guest cottage to keep her away from family functions. You also cant argue logicly with a person who thinks like this. Everything you say and do will be used against you.


I kind of understand borderlinethinking now since my trauma.
It is still something different, but I was also highly scared by ALL people who work in the hospital I got traumaticed.
If someone would put me there again, I'll totally freak out, wouldn't be able to behave "normal" anymore and so on.
It is totally stressing and I don't want to know how it is to feel like it in all situations.

The difference from borderline to trauma is mainly in my case, that I can avoid the situation and behave just there like a total emotional fearfull "freak" and nowere else.
But I can imagine the cycle being like this everywere.
My head even couldn't come down when I had to got to the traumatic place just all 4 weeks...!

But now I'm nearly "normal" again, not being in the traumatic environment since nearly three weeks. How it looks like my PTSD was just pushed all the time because I stayed in this traumatic environment after the trauma. :D
But it still kind of stresses me that the 2nd aniversary of the traumatic event is in a view days. :cry:


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19 Sep 2012, 1:19 pm

I'm currently going through the diagnostic process...I wonder if they will conclude the same about me. :S


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Raziel
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19 Sep 2012, 1:54 pm

KnarlyDUDE09 wrote:
I'm currently going through the diagnostic process...I wonder if they will conclude the same about me. :S


Nearly two years I was missdiagnosed and now I know telling them doesn't help, just changing and also that most patients have a very good feeling what's wrong with them and you should trust your feeling and also get explained very well their opinion and proof for your own if it makes sence for you and if yes in how far and so on.
Of course we can also be wrong about ourself, but most of the times patients notice when a diagnosis just fits, at least this is what I noticed. Some patients are in complete denial about their diagnosis and their symptoms, but I believe that mostly even than they notice that there is some truth to it if it really fits.
I just met one girl so far who is totally convinced something els then she is diagnosed with, but she has delushional disorder and I think in those cases it can also happen.


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08 Feb 2015, 5:32 pm

The distinction between Autism, Bi-Polar Disorder, Schizophrenia, OCD, ADHD and Borderline Personality Disorder is not clear-cut.

There's a significant overlap in symptoms and genetic correlation between each of these "disorders". Co-morbidity is also very common.

Personally, I lean towards the notion that Autism, Bi-Polar Disorder, Schizophrenia, OCD, ADHD and Borderline Personality Disorder are not individual conditions but as different expressions of the same spectrum.

I would also argue that these are not disorders, but normal variations within human behavior that have been pathologized for no other reason but the rather eccentric and unusual behavior of people within, which makes them more difficult to manipulate and control.



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08 Feb 2015, 10:36 pm

Borderline especially, as a diagnosis, is corrupted by sexist, cultural and gender issues - most psychiatric diagnoses are, IMO, though none so much as BPD.



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08 Feb 2015, 10:49 pm

I was diagnosed as Bpd, which now is actually known as emotional dysregulation disorder, when I was 21.
I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome last year. Thus, I retain both diagnoses, but the clinician believed that the bpd traits developed as a result of the lack of knowledge of the Asperger's and abuse thus not being dealt with appropriately when it occurred. As I have become older, I am not so bad as I was. The main residue is the appallingly low self esteem, hyper alertness for any sign of criticism and an occasional sense of sadness at the fact that I matter to so few, due to my tendency to just not be able to put myself out there, and a general inability to feel myself to be cared for or loved. I must confess, I have always thought bpd is a bit of a cop-out, and is thrown upon anyone they cannot be bothered to investigate in more depth. I also believe it just another form of PTSD.


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bethannny
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24 Nov 2016, 10:33 pm

Sora wrote:
I was almost diagnosed with BPD because the psychiatrist thought a girl my age can't have autism (or ADD). She insisted I had symptoms I had not and she insisted that I wasn't telling the truth when I told her about my symptoms, my difficulties, my feelings and my (sensory) perception.

The diagnosis was later ruled out entirely during an assessment that literally found no evidence for BPD.


It was the same with me. Though I carried an ASD diagnosis since childhood as a young adult Psychiatrists were very reluctant to believe that. They assumed I must be BPD instead and I MUST be lying about the source of the meltdown/shutdowns (which were always sensory too). They also didn't believe that I was a non-drinker either :roll: - the One guy said flat out "do you seriously expect me to believe you don't drink alcohol to cope with your emotions?"



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25 Nov 2016, 12:41 am

I have been reading about this condition and lurked on forums about it. I once thought I could have this when I was 16 after watching Girl Interrupted and then I decided I didn't have it. Some people think she didn't have it either and she was just going through a hard time and got diagnosed because she is female and then she was "recovered" because she didn't have it to begin with. That is a possibility. I think it was just anxiety I was going through and then I was magically better when our puppy died because he was a major stresser in my life all because he wouldn't quit peeing in the house and wouldn't learn to go outside because he would hold it until he was inside to go. I don't think BPD works like that because they need DBT to get better and their condition isn't caused by a stresser or by anxiety. It's a personality disorder, not an anxiety disorder or an adjustment disorder. I didn't become a victim of this diagnoses.


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bethannny
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25 Nov 2016, 7:17 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I have been reading about this condition and lurked on forums about it. I once thought I could have this when I was 16 after watching Girl Interrupted and then I decided I didn't have it. Some people think she didn't have it either and she was just going through a hard time and got diagnosed because she is female and then she was "recovered" because she didn't have it to begin with. That is a possibility. I think it was just anxiety I was going through and then I was magically better when our puppy died because he was a major stresser in my life all because he wouldn't quit peeing in the house and wouldn't learn to go outside because he would hold it until he was inside to go. I don't think BPD works like that because they need DBT to get better and their condition isn't caused by a stresser or by anxiety. It's a personality disorder, not an anxiety disorder or an adjustment disorder. I didn't become a victim of this diagnoses.


Sorry about your puppy (regardless). I too as a young teen got pets I couldn't handle and felt relieved when I re-homed them.

About girl interrupted, if you you watch the movie carefully you will notice the sexist undertones towards her through out the movie. Especially the affair with the professor which was apparent he was the one harassing her and not the other way around. I also think that was part of the reason she got sent to the ward.



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25 Nov 2016, 7:31 pm

I was assessed using the SCID-II across all the PDs but had none, but especially not BPD. I don't believe that actual BPD and ASD look alike at all, having been put in a PD therapy group for lack of other services and it not working out.


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Alexinwonderland
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04 Dec 2016, 7:30 am

Before I was diagnosed with NLD I thought I may have BPD. However, it would not at all surprise me if I have both NLD and BPD.



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04 Dec 2016, 10:29 am

Quote:
The essential features of a personality disorder are impairments in
personality (self and interpersonal) functioning and the presence of
pathological personality traits. To diagnose borderline personality
disorder, the following criteria must be met:
A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:
1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):
a. Identity: Markedly impoverished, poorly developed, or unstable self-image, often associated with excessive selfcriticism; chronic feelings of emptiness; dissociative states under stress.
b. Self-direction: Instability in goals, aspirations, values, or
career plans.
AND
2. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):
a. Empathy: Compromised ability to recognize the feelings
and needs of others associated with interpersonal
hypersensitivity (i.e., prone to feel slighted or insulted);
perceptions of others selectively biased toward negative
attributes or vulnerabilities.
b. Intimacy: Intense, unstable, and conflicted close
relationships, marked by mistrust, neediness, and anxious
preoccupation with real or imagined abandonment; close
relationships often viewed in extremes of idealization and
devaluation and alternating between over involvement and
withdrawal.
B. Pathological personality traits in the following domains:
1. Negative Affectivity, characterized by:
a. Emotional liability: Unstable emotional experiences and
frequent mood changes; emotions that are easily aroused,
intense, and/or out of proportion to events and
circumstances.
b. Anxiousness: Intense feelings of nervousness,
tenseness, or panic, often in reaction to interpersonal
stresses; worry about the negative effects of past
unpleasant experiences and future negative possibilities;
feeling fearful, apprehensive, or threatened by uncertainty;
fears of falling apart or losing control.
c. Separation insecurity: Fears of rejection by – and/or separation from – significant others, associated with fears
of excessive dependency and complete loss of autonomy.
d. Depressivity: Frequent feelings of being down, miserable,
and/or hopeless; difficulty recovering from such moods;
pessimism about the future; pervasive shame; feeling of
inferior self-worth; thoughts of suicide and suicidal
behavior.
2. Disinhibition, characterized by:
a. Impulsivity: Acting on the spur of the moment in response
to immediate stimuli; acting on a momentary basis without
a plan or consideration of outcomes; difficulty establishing
or following plans; a sense of urgency and self-harming
behavior under emotional distress.
b. Risk taking: Engagement in dangerous, risky, and
potentially self-damaging activities, unnecessarily and
without regard to consequences; lack of concern for one‟s
limitations and denial of the reality of personal danger.
3. Antagonism, characterized by:
a. Hostility: Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger or
irritability in response to minor slights and insults.
C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s
personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and
consistent across situations.
D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s
personality trait expression are not better understood as normative
for the individual‟s developmental stage or socio-cultural
environment.
E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s
personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct
physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse,
medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma).


Aside from very superficially - the conditions are really very different. I think that a lot of people see only the superficial stuff and don't look at the core details - they are especially detailed if you read the guidance chapter (not published online) in the DSM. BPD essentially is about emotional instability resulting in chaotic feelings, decisions and actions. For example, 'difficulty establishing or following plans' doesn't mean executive function type difficulties associated with ASD - it means people who have a plan for a career one day and when you ask them days or hours later, have scrapped the intention of being a hairdresser in favour of being an astronaut.

It is characterised by the attitude of "I hate you/don't leave me". People with BPD usually get angry and/or sabotage relationships but then panic about being alone and clamor to get their friend back.

You'll notice that even the parts about interpersonal relationships differ in origin.

BPD is more similar to disorders arising from traumatic situations. Indeed, BPD almost always occurs where a person has experienced trauma which is why dissociation is a symptom. So I do not believe it's origin is at all related to ASD.


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Diagnosed with:
Moderate Hearing Loss in 2002.
Autism Spectrum Disorder in August 2015.
ADHD diagnosed in July 2016

Also "probable" dyspraxia/DCD and dyslexia.

Plus a smattering of mental health problems that have now been mostly resolved.