Autism in France: Psychoanalysis, Packing, Other Travesties

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shubunkin
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03 Mar 2012, 8:25 am

I'm not clear how you arrived at the conclusion that she knew, but withheld the knowledge with purpose?

It sounds as if things have worked out well for you, and you feel that not knowing was useful.

I am left wondering how things would have worked out for Professor Temple Grandin has she been treated solely with psychoanalysis, and grown up in France with the "care" provided by the analysts in this documentary.

I doubt she would have become the world class scientist, engineer and academic, activist and role model had an explanation been withheld.



Lyll
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03 Mar 2012, 8:57 am

At the time she was diagnosed, american psychiatrists were probably as advanced as the french ones are today. It seems that her mother's education helped more than doctors.



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03 Mar 2012, 10:32 am

Quote:
I'm not clear how you arrived at the conclusion that she knew, but withheld the knowledge with purpose?


Putting a label on someone with differences (whatever differences they are) can be negative.

I act like this because I am 'sick' does not sound right to me. It gives the individual a way to escape the responsibility of their actions, eludes what they are. I act like this because this is the way I function does not make things right in the context of social norms but is closer to the truth and makes you face what you are, obliges you to accept it and deal with it. (Example: I can't freak out in supermarkets because of crowd and sensory overload, but I can wear earplugs and concentrate on music to feel safe in my own world)
The principle of acceptance is a first step towards well being. I disagree with the 'illness' , 'abnormal' classification. I would rather qualify it as a difference. Understanding the difference enables you to know yourself , helps you control yourself and adapt to the 'norm' which to me is only a system established by a bigger group out-performing smaller ones. You are different, it is a fact. You have to respect the norms it is another fact. Find alternatives.

If she had labelled me instead of giving me tools, i would probably not have worked on myself, searched who I was, how to feel better. I would probably have accepted her diagnosis and given up trying.

I believe I found out about asperger at the time I was ready to know. There is a reason to everything. I have been functionning pretty good in the last decades but finding out tput into light why I have always had to work harder than others. I look at the description of asperger not as a diagnosis but as a confirmation of why I act certain ways when others don't. It also enables me to explore areas I haven't explored yet. It is just information that helps me move forward even more in my personnal evolution.



shubunkin
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03 Mar 2012, 11:14 am

shubunkin wrote:
I'm not clear how you arrived at the conclusion that she knew, but withheld the knowledge with purpose?

It sounds as if things have worked out well for you, and you feel that not knowing was useful.

I am left wondering how things would have worked out for Professor Temple Grandin has she been treated solely with psychoanalysis, and grown up in France with the "care" provided by the analysts in this documentary.

I doubt she would have become the world class scientist, engineer and academic, activist and role model had an explanation been withheld.


What I meant by the first sentence, (which does appears unclear - my apologies) is in response to your statement that you believed your psychologist "knew" but did not tell you.

I'm not clear how you arrived at the conclusion that your Jungian psychologist knew that you were on the spectrum, but withheld the knowledge for some purpose?



shubunkin
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03 Mar 2012, 11:21 am

Lyll wrote:
At the time she was diagnosed, american psychiatrists were probably as advanced as the french ones are today. It seems that her mother's education helped more than doctors.


Autism is not caused by bad parenting. It is totally wrong that psychoanalysis is the main treatment for autism in France. It is shocking that France is so backward.

Not my words, but Professor Grandin's, in response to the film this thread is about.



Lyll
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03 Mar 2012, 12:30 pm

I did not say autism was caused by bad parenting. I meant that dr Grandin'smother did not get any help from doctors . She found out the ways to make her daughter a high functionning person. It is thanks to her mother's education that dr Grandin is highfunctionning.



shubunkin
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03 Mar 2012, 12:39 pm

Lyll wrote:
I did not say autism was caused by bad parenting. I meant that dr Grandin'smother did not get any help from doctors . She found out the ways to make her daughter a high functionning person. It is thanks to her mother's education that dr Grandin is highfunctionning.



? I didn't say you said autism was caused by bad parenting, I am pointing out using Grandin's own words, written in 2012 that France is behind because analysis is used as a principal treatment modality. It sounds from all the posts and news I have read as if France does not have clear national guidelines about assessment or treatment of autism spectrum disorder.

I am intrigued - but please don't feel you need to reply to the question I posted above - as to what makes you think your analyst ( or was she a qualified clinical psychologist - this would make a great difference in the UK, maybe not in France? ) didn't tell you you were on the spectrum as it wasn't the right time for you to know.



Lyll
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03 Mar 2012, 2:37 pm

Aspie misunderstanding? :D

She was a 'psychotherapeute'. Her approach includes other areas than just traditionnal medecine and psychology. This however has no importance to me. Her 'official'qualifications do not interest me. All I value is the fact that she helped me.



shubunkin
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03 Mar 2012, 3:51 pm

@Lyll

The belief that official qualifications and regulations are immaterial when it comes to being helped is an understandable concept, and I do appreciate that you are talking about your own experience.

However.........! !
I do have to state the following :

Using unqualifed people doesn't stand up to scrutiny when there is:

- the need for a diagnosis of a developmental disorder

(I think most people would prefer that an assessment leading to a diagnosis would be carried out by a clinical psychologist, or at least someone who had actually studied modern psychology at a doctorate level, specialising in developmental and cognitive psychology and informed by neuroscience.)

- the need for a diagnosis of a mental health disorder

- the need for a diagnosis of a physical health disorder

Getting 'help' from unqualified workers means that people can run the risk of serious consequences.

Nathalie de Reuck's book cautions against unqualified medical professionals' involvement in the treatment of health problems:

http://www.psyvig.com/default_page.php?menu=1&page=44

I do appreciate that not everyone can agree with my statement above

- probably most alternative therapists, shamans, yogis, naturopaths, reiki masters, Germanic New Medecine enthusiasts, anthroposophists.... the list can go on....



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03 Mar 2012, 5:46 pm

Qualified does not necessarily mean capable. However, qualifications helps most of them to get away with it.
That link is a pure example of people's stupidity and unability to use their brains and common sense.
Conmen are everywhere.
I am saddened to see that if one alternative therapist is labelled a crook, a liar or a danger, people feel the need to believe they all are. Shame this does not work with politicians too.
As you said. I am just sharing my experience. Trying to convince hermetic minds would be useless. Some people will find it helpful, others won't. Some will laugh at it, some might try it. So be it.



shubunkin
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TallyMan
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09 Mar 2012, 5:08 am

shubunkin wrote:
http://www.europe1.fr/France/Autisme-la-psychanalyse-ecartee-980679/

Good news!


I saw it on the news here (France) yesterday. It is a step in the right direction. Someone finally stood up and said that there was no data over the last thirty years to say that the psychoanalytical approach had any beneficial effects treating autism.

France has an excellent medical system (compared to most parts of the World) but it is seriously deficient / backwards in certain areas.


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shubunkin
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09 Mar 2012, 6:06 pm

TallyMan wrote:
shubunkin wrote:
http://www.europe1.fr/France/Autisme-la-psychanalyse-ecartee-980679/

Good news!


I saw it on the news here (France) yesterday. It is a step in the right direction. Someone finally stood up and said that there was no data over the last thirty years to say that the psychoanalytical approach had any beneficial effects treating autism.

France has an excellent medical system (compared to most parts of the World) but it is seriously deficient / backwards in certain areas.


Exactly .......!

So,

If psychoanalysis doesn't have any beneficial effects to show in the treatment of autism, and there has been a massive u-turn from government watchdogs, resulting in their recommendation not to use it,
and given that psychoanalysts insist that they've been doing the best that could probably be done.... and that their theories are fine because they are derived from ancient knowledge and transmitted by enlightened theorists such as Jung and Lacan,
I wonder.........
if
psychoanalysts can be trusted to treat anything?

The thing is, in a country where astrology, medium consultation, numerology, homeopathy and bio-energy healing is put on the same level as clinical psychology and neuroscience, I don't think there is much hope for immediate change....

:0)
( wouldn't trust them to treat my pet fish - how people have allowed them to treat their kids is beyond me...)



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11 Mar 2012, 12:28 pm

shubunkin wrote:
[I don't think there is much hope for immediate change....

:0)
( wouldn't trust them to treat my pet fish - how people have allowed them to treat their kids is beyond me...)

i don't think there is much hope either , it's going to take time, 10 more years probably .....
About your last sentence : parents never had a CHOICE. Schools have school psychologists, who send your child to a child psychiatrist if they notice anything odd, and then those people start official "treatment ", and once your child is caught in this machine , removing them constitutes default of care, and they can REMOVE your child from your home , to get him "proper care": psychoanalysis . in the meanwhile you've lost custody.
Is it a little less "beyond you " now?



shubunkin
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12 Mar 2012, 4:45 pm

I was referring to parents who purposefully take their kids to see analysts like this.

Not for one minute was I referring to parents who are forced.

I am aware of the difference.