NT Colander Brain vs AS Hourglass Brain analogy...

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analyser23
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04 Oct 2012, 11:37 pm

So after thinking further about the differences between Aspies and NTs, and reading more of Bill's Autism Discussion facebook page, I came up with an analogy that works for me but I wanted to see what you guys think....

Taking the notion that

NTs have stronger long range connections between major brain areas and hence are able to process multiple pieces of information simultaneously a lot faster than Aspies and

Aspies have weaker long range connections which results in us needing to process things sequentially, one piece of information at a time, and hence makes us slower at processing information (though I believe this makes us more accurate),

I visualised the analogy of the NTs having a Colander brain
Image


And the Aspie having an hourglass brain
Image

Imagine both "brains" getting the same amount and type of sand put into them (let's say that they both have the same area available). Because the colander has more (and bigger) holes, the information will sift through much faster through many holes at the same time. The hourglass, however, will sift the sand through much slower, close to one grain of sand at a time (ok in reality it is more than one, but hey). The colander is doing multiple things at once and faster. The hourglass is doing one thing at a time, but since it is slower and focussed, there is more time to analyse each grain of sand as it filters through. Hence, we are slower, but more accurate and in depth.

This might also explain out meltdowns/shutdowns. Because the processing is slower and more intense, it doesn't take long before there is a backlog of sand waiting - add more sand on top and it will fill to the brim and spill over more often. The colander goes fast - there is less backlog, and hence there is already a space available for new sand (new information).

Potentially, we are unconsciously aware of this/have learnt from experience that this is the case. Hence, we try to be picky about which situations we put ourselves into to avoid too great an influx of information (sand) for our hourglasses to handle. We have less confidence that we can deal with too much stimuli. An NT with the colander brain has more self confidence that they can handle a lot of stimuli. An NT can, however, get too great an influx of information sometimes too, hence why they can "lose it" as well - yet they recover quicker.

I still wonder how
(a) it fits in with differences with sensory stimuli - is it because we have to process that as an individual grain of sand, one at a time, and only that thing at that time vs an NT who has one larger hole dedicated to that while the other holes deal with other things, so they can process sensory stuff while also processing other information?
(b) Why it can be helpful for us to zone out and focus on a special interest of ours when we are overloaded? I understand why we need to go to a quiet room with no lights and no new stimuli (the hourglass needs some time to process what is already there before taking any new information), but how does the focus on a special interest work?

Edit: Grrr how do I get the pics to work?



Last edited by analyser23 on 05 Oct 2012, 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

apostolos
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04 Oct 2012, 11:55 pm

Like this it works, I think..

Code:
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/onabearskinrug/14147901/7276/7276_original.jpg[/img]
[img]http://okulweb.meb.gov.tr/81/01/289544/haber_resim/haber/yarisma2.jpg[/img]



analyser23
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05 Oct 2012, 3:03 am

apostolos wrote:
Like this it works, I think..
Code:
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/onabearskinrug/14147901/7276/7276_original.jpg[/img]
[img]http://okulweb.meb.gov.tr/81/01/289544/haber_resim/haber/yarisma2.jpg[/img]


Yay, thank you :)



analyser23
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05 Oct 2012, 3:11 am

Taking it even further, I wonder about the actual sand. Different types of stimuli might be different types of substance - larger,smaller, harder, softer, etc.

Maybe for the NT colander brain, if they come across some stimuli which is too large and hard to get through one of the holes easily, it might clog that hole up for a bit, but in the meantime they have plenty of other holes to use for other information to still flow through. This might just leave them with some stress/anxiety, but they can still "get on with things" (as they keep telling us to do!)

For the Aspie hourglass brain, if something wrong comes along and clogs the hole, we have no other holes to use to just keep on going... So possibly the hourglass shuts down, or explodes from the pressure (meltdown) and we can't "move on" and function so easily.

Refining it even more so, I started thinking about why we prefer to do routines, and why some information for us is easier to process than others.
Maybe there are different shaped filters in the hole in the hourglass. If we know which shapes are coming (planning in advance, controlling our world) then we know in advance which shaped filters to put in the hole in time so that when the info gets there, it sails smoothly through without any wasted time or confusion. When a piece of info comes along which we weren't expecting, we might get in a flurry because we have located the filter for it in time, and hence our information processing gets held up for a certain amount of time.
If we have never come across this information before (new information), we don't even HAVE a filter made for it already, so we REALLY get in a flurry because we suddenly have to create a new filter in a massive hurry.

Yes, this may all sound extremely crazy lol But in my head, it really makes so much sense!! !

I also wonder what differences are occuring within the hourglass between the different ends of the spectrum - different number of holes - maybe there is a contraption which has just 3 holes or so.... Or maybe there are bigger hourglasses - some people can take more information in before it gets to the brim, whereas those with only a small capacity brim over a lot quicker from a smaller amount of information, etc...



PTSmorrow
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05 Oct 2012, 4:56 am

The link doesn't work

Great analogy and makes sense in more than one respect. How about replacing the hourglass with a set of metal sifters?

Image


For the colander it doesn't matter which kind of information is poured into it. My autistic brain, however, can't switch so quickly as to pick out important information from the overwhelming stream of input, thus i need to decide upon which i focus at a time.

If i drive, for instance, i have to focus on driving. No radio, no talking, no phone, just driving. This applies for practically everything i do. When i work, i work and don't think about anything else. Saying i can't multitask is not enough, because my inability to do so goes to the extreme.

About the shutdowns/meltdowns, they happen to me when there's too much sensory input and at any point i can't no longer process the stream of information and everything around me seems to happen like in a fast motion movie.

Quote:
I still wonder how
(a) it fits in with differences with sensory stimuli - is it because we have to process that as an individual grain of sand, one at a time, and only that thing at that time vs an NT who has one larger hole dedicated to that while the other holes deal with other things, so they can process sensory stuff while also processing other information?


NT's can process just about any type of information simultaneously, whereas i can only process some types of information successively. Compared to my NT sister who has a freeway to process information, i have just a narrow trail for the same purpose.


Quote:
(b) Why it can be helpful for us to zone out and focus on a special interest of ours when we are overloaded? I understand why we need to go to a quiet room with no lights and no new stimuli (the hourglass needs some time to process what is already there before taking any new information), but how does the focus on a special interest work?


My routines are a way to focus or re--focus. I think it works because when i do the same things, i activate the same brain areas and that's like thinking the same pleasant, familiar, calming thought again and again like a mantra, but that's only my unqualified opinion.



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05 Oct 2012, 5:20 pm

You think you can post this where caring NTs tend to congregate? PTSmorrow and analyser23 both.


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analyser23
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06 Oct 2012, 7:08 pm

emimeni wrote:
You think you can post this where caring NTs tend to congregate? PTSmorrow and analyser23 both.


Do you think it makes sense emimeni?
Where do you suggest I post it?



analyser23
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06 Oct 2012, 7:12 pm

PTSmorrow wrote:

For the colander it doesn't matter which kind of information is poured into it. My autistic brain, however, can't switch so quickly as to pick out important information from the overwhelming stream of input, thus i need to decide upon which i focus at a time.



So you're saying, PTSmorrow, that with the metal sifters that you can only focus on one small area at a time, and that while you are focusing on that, the other information is still going through but you can't focus on it. Compared with the hourglass where you have to focus on every single part (but not miss any of it)?
That could make sense, yes.

PTSmorrow wrote:
My routines are a way to focus or re--focus. I think it works because when i do the same things, i activate the same brain areas and that's like thinking the same pleasant, familiar, calming thought again and again like a mantra, but that's only my unqualified opinion.


That makes sense... How does that work with the metal sifter analogy though?



emimeni
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06 Oct 2012, 7:39 pm

analyser23 wrote:
emimeni wrote:
You think you can post this where caring NTs tend to congregate? PTSmorrow and analyser23 both.


Do you think it makes sense emimeni?
Where do you suggest I post it?


I'm not sure. A non-WP blog, maybe, or the parents forum.


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Mdyar
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06 Oct 2012, 11:45 pm

Here's your hour glass:

Quote:
Deficits in high-functioning individuals occur in processing that places high demands on integration of information and coordination of multiple neural systems. Intact or enhanced abilities share a dependence on low information-processing demands and local neural connections.


From: http://archneur.jamanetwork.com/article ... eid=794123

Btw, that's a pretty pic.of one.



IDontGetIt
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07 Oct 2012, 3:57 am

I like it. The NT sand gets spilled all over the place, while the AS sand is carefully processed. :lol:



urbanpixie
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07 Oct 2012, 7:34 pm

This is a great analogy. Not only does it describe the difference between the way Aspies and NTs receive information, but it describes the way Aspies and NTs communicate information.

For example: My father, who is AS, communicates information in an hourglass-type way, so that he only gives one piece of information at a time. For example, today he told me that he found a new iPhone app he thought I would like. I told him thanks, but I didn't need an app like that. What he really wanted to say was: I miss you. I don't see you much anymore. I found an iPhone app for you so we can spend time together. But he's not really good at verbalizing emotions along with content, and didn't give any clues with his tone or body language that he was trying to say something personal. When I told him I didn't want the app, he got mad, since he thought he was being rejected. But he didn't give enough information at the same time to show me what he really wanted. Now that I've been reading this forum, I see what he was really trying to say.

NTs, on the other hand, seem to have a more open and emotive communication style, where they communicate through content, emotion, tone, and body language, and express each at the same time through multiple holes in the colander. When an NT communicates in this way to someone with AS, it's as though the AS recipient can only take one of the pieces of information at a time- which is why they can pick up the content but not the body language. I think the difficulty in eye contact stems from the fact that it's difficult for the AS to process the facial expression, the emotion, and the content at the same time. Then, the NT is confused because they feel they have communicated a message with multiple pieces of information and only one of the pieces of information was received.

I have no idea if the above makes sense and I believe it's an overgeneralization, but I want to hear what you all think!



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11 Oct 2012, 2:41 pm

analyser23 wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:

For the colander it doesn't matter which kind of information is poured into it. My autistic brain, however, can't switch so quickly as to pick out important information from the overwhelming stream of input, thus i need to decide upon which i focus at a time.



So you're saying, PTSmorrow, that with the metal sifters that you can only focus on one small area at a time, and that while you are focusing on that, the other information is still going through but you can't focus on it. Compared with the hourglass where you have to focus on every single part (but not miss any of it)?
That could make sense, yes.

I can switch my attention to another sifter if necessary, although it takes a lot of effort to do so, but at any given moment I'm only aware of one particular input.

PTSmorrow wrote:
My routines are a way to focus or re--focus. I think it works because when i do the same things, i activate the same brain areas and that's like thinking the same pleasant, familiar, calming thought again and again like a mantra, but that's only my unqualified opinion.


That makes sense... How does that work with the metal sifter analogy though?


I use the metal sifter analogy for a current of impressions I receive from and exchange with the outside world, and only one kind of information can pass the sifter. For instance, when I'm listening, I'm all ears and can't think about an answer simultaneously, let alone speak. Then when I think, I can't receive information unless I interrupt my thoughts.

The routines, however, are an intrinsic activity and more often than not while i indulge in them the outside world is largely shut down.



Robdemanc
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11 Oct 2012, 2:56 pm

I love that analogy it makes good sense to me.

Regarding the sensory stimulus - I wonder if when we receive sensory information that stimulus has to go straight to the hole and filter through immediately (for evolutionary reasons). This may result in a hold up of the already slow moving sand (all the other current information). Perhaps the hold up makes us more aware of the sensory stimulus.

While an NT's many holed brain can allow the sensory stimulus through any of the holes and so they don't notice the hold up because there are many holes.

Regarding the special interest -Maybe that is a way for us to filter information through the hole in a way we can control. Usually we shut out other input when focused on a special interest. And also because it is of interest, it is more stimulating for us because we only have to focus on one hole. Whereas an NT's interests may go through any of their holes while other current information is continuing through their many other holes. So they don't receive as much stimulation from a solitary interest than us.

This would explain why NT's are stimulated so much by groups of friends. Each friend in the group may take up a dedicated hole and so the NT gets to receive multiple steams of stimulated sand going through multiple holes. Whereas with us a group of friends would be backlogged and so we can only deal with one at a time.

Great thinking OP.