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Tawaki
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27 May 2012, 1:41 pm

*deleted double post due to posting from cell phone*



Last edited by Tawaki on 28 May 2012, 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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27 May 2012, 2:16 pm

I end up over-explaining things too. Now if someone asks me something and I know I'm going to start getting really in to it and ramble on then I'll just say I don't know. Especially with simple questions like "what's you favorite band" or something. I could get so in to it and so I'll just say I don't know. Before, someone would ask me something and I'll start talking and all of a sudden they're talking to someone else. So then I tried just saying I don't know or something quick and then they say I don't talk enough so they start talking to someone else. It doesn't make sense.



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27 May 2012, 3:35 pm

Tawaki wrote:
When Fior went for his Aspie diagnoses appt., he told the psych guy he couldn't possibly have Asperger. Then promptly dragged out a dossier the size of the Manhattan phone book with all the the tiniest details of his life.

*hides the dossier(s) I made for my Asperger diagnosis*


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27 May 2012, 5:12 pm

CanisMajor wrote:
Sometimes it's over-explaining, but other times it's just trying to be very, very specific. For example, I was once driving with a friend and we were behind a really slow car. My friend was complaining, "There is NO REASON to drive that slow! Ever!"

I wanted to agree with him, but, being ever-so methodical, I ended up making a whole list of reasons why he was wrong. "Yeah!... Well, unless there's a problem with their car. Or they're trying to find an address. Or they're lost. Or they're trying to change CDs. Or if they're about to pull over..." etc etc.



I do this all the time. I've even done your exact example!! !! And even came up with a similar list of reasons for the person ahead of us to be driving slow. After all, it's a reasonable list. :D

"There is no reason....." is a trigger phrase for me. I think that by now friends and family are careful not to say it around me or else they get subjected to my long list of possible reasons for "unreasonable" phenomenon X.

I have been accused (reasonably :oops: ) of sucking the magic and wonder out of mysterious phenomena. Just as I will give a list of reasons why somebody might do something "unreasonable", I am compelled to list reasons why supernatural explanations are not needed for mysterious phenomena. When other people just want to indulge in the thrill of believing ghost stories and alien visitation stories, I always come up with a dull and unmagical reason why there was that spooky sound or the floating light in the sky. Friends and family also know not to tell me their spooky story of why they believe the hotel they visited was haunted. I'll come up with a list of mundane explanations which are never as fun as "oohhh a ghost".


It's a highly specific sort of over-explaining.



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27 May 2012, 5:13 pm

I'm like that, probably because I have a hard enough time to get people to understand me when I'm talking out loud. My thoughts are always jumbled in my head and sometimes they don't come out right.



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27 May 2012, 6:29 pm

Tawaki wrote:
My Aspie husband does this, and it can be really painful. Yes/no question or something that needs one sentence can morph into a 10 minute monolog, with everyone around mentally checking out.

It is really bad at a doctor appointment. When Fior went for his Aspie diagnoses appt., he told the psych guy he couldn't possibly have Asperger. Then promptly dragged out a dossier the size of the Manhattan phone book with all the the tiniest details of his life. About 3/4 ths of it, the psych guy didn't give a sh** about. And Fior got angry when the dude asked a relative question. Fior felt the psych needed the whole, excruciating long story FIRST, then questions.

I'll be honest, I checked out 5 minutes into the monolog. Psych guy was very polite and manage to reign Fior in around the 20 min mark.

Fior can't prioritize anything. Any subject needs the PhD thesis behind it. Mix horrible executive functioning skills, total lack of noticing body language and a helping of social anxiety, Fior can talk non stop about ketsup, when you ask, "Can you pass the ketsup over here."


Double post!?

Well, I don't know the context of this story (perhaps more detail would help, ironically this post underexplains!), but sometimes an honest yes/no answer does not tell the whole story. Here is an example: Do you like your husband? (yes/no only please :) ). I would probably be upset if my discussion was interrupted with an relative question. There are two sides to stories like this. BTW what is a relative question?--do you mean relevant?

The problem is most people assume things and people speak far too vaguely and grossly underexplain things. I think it helps to be explicit and detailed. That is the key to good communication and to avoid misunderstandings. Fortunately, people on WP seem to be good at this for the most part.



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27 May 2012, 6:35 pm

Blownmind wrote:
Tawaki wrote:
When Fior went for his Aspie diagnoses appt., he told the psych guy he couldn't possibly have Asperger. Then promptly dragged out a dossier the size of the Manhattan phone book with all the the tiniest details of his life.

*hides the dossier(s) I made for my Asperger diagnosis*


Oh God ... I was planning to spend the next couple of months assembling one with school records and notes and all sorts of stuff.

OK ... I still am. Those school records at least really make the case. I'm worried about misdiagnosis so I want them to have the most accurate information. The whole process seems quite arbitrary.



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27 May 2012, 7:17 pm

I get the 'wrap it up' hand gesture regularly.

I over-explain to normals and sub-normals mostly because they think they understand all of the implications of a topic after a few sentences. Perhaps it is their innate simplicity that I desire to correct.



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27 May 2012, 11:35 pm

TallyMan wrote:
I've always had the same problem. The difficulty is finding the correct depth of explanations to give people and I often misjudge and either over-explain or under-explain. I also have the habit of repeating myself, expressing the same thing in a different way because the person hasn't given me adequate feedback that they understood me the first time around - but possibly it is because I can't read their body language so don't know if they understood me or not unless they verbally tell me one way or the other.


Expressed well enough to match my thoughts! Well said Tally Man



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28 May 2012, 12:08 am

slave wrote:
I get the 'wrap it up' hand gesture regularly.

I over-explain to normals and sub-normals mostly because they think they understand all of the implications of a topic after a few sentences. Perhaps it is their innate simplicity that I desire to correct.


Ha! That's it!
It's hard to say it without sounding arrogant, but why don't people want to investigate the truth behind things?

I make long explanations because I want to share all the information I've found, and any speculation I've had regarding it, and my ideas on the topic.... etc. Any one of these morsels could light the spark of inspiration!

I have no excuses when my mind goes blank mid-sentence and the words stop making sense, though.



CanisMajor
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28 May 2012, 10:57 am

Janissy wrote:
CanisMajor wrote:
Sometimes it's over-explaining, but other times it's just trying to be very, very specific. For example, I was once driving with a friend and we were behind a really slow car. My friend was complaining, "There is NO REASON to drive that slow! Ever!"

I wanted to agree with him, but, being ever-so methodical, I ended up making a whole list of reasons why he was wrong. "Yeah!... Well, unless there's a problem with their car. Or they're trying to find an address. Or they're lost. Or they're trying to change CDs. Or if they're about to pull over..." etc etc.



I do this all the time. I've even done your exact example!! !! And even came up with a similar list of reasons for the person ahead of us to be driving slow. After all, it's a reasonable list. :D

"There is no reason....." is a trigger phrase for me. I think that by now friends and family are careful not to say it around me or else they get subjected to my long list of possible reasons for "unreasonable" phenomenon X.

I have been accused (reasonably :oops: ) of sucking the magic and wonder out of mysterious phenomena. Just as I will give a list of reasons why somebody might do something "unreasonable", I am compelled to list reasons why supernatural explanations are not needed for mysterious phenomena. When other people just want to indulge in the thrill of believing ghost stories and alien visitation stories, I always come up with a dull and unmagical reason why there was that spooky sound or the floating light in the sky. Friends and family also know not to tell me their spooky story of why they believe the hotel they visited was haunted. I'll come up with a list of mundane explanations which are never as fun as "oohhh a ghost".


It's a highly specific sort of over-explaining.


You sound like someone I'd get along with very well. :P I like to surround myself with skeptics for this very reason.

One time I was watching TV at my brother's place with another sibling and a couple of their friends. One of those "ghost hunting" shows came on... Oh my... I had such a hard time keeping my mouth shut. I managed to politely sit quietly while they watched the first ten minutes, but as soon as the commercial break came on I started ranting about why in the world these people thought some supposed spirit from the 13th century would understand when they go around yelling, "Is anybody here? Just show some kind of sign if you hear me!" Dude, even if ghosts existed, why in the world do you think someone that died in 1267 AD would understand modern English?! Ugh, I could just go on and on about those shows, though. I have to stop now before I get too off-topic...

Though I will mention one more thing in response- I certainly have no problem finding wonder and fascination in this world, without any supernatural elements. I just think about how different weather phenomena happen, how light forms within a star, how the human eye processes that light... Real life is amazing! It almost depresses me to think there are so many people who can't be satisfied with that, who insist on believing in spirit realms and other woo-woo because they've never looked into why things are the way they are and simply been inspired by the universe we can observe. :(



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28 May 2012, 1:21 pm

edgewaters wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
My guess is that a significant cause of the over-explaining / under-explaining problem is our lack of recognition of body language. So unless people we are talking to explicitly say they have understood or not understood what we have said, we are left floundering around not knowing how much detail to give or if indeed we need to try to repeat ourselves using different words.


Hmmm ... that might be plausible ... I used to drive my parents nuts when I was a kid, because I'd finish almost every sentence with "right mom?" or "right dad?" unless it was a question rather than a statement.

The thing is, why do we do it on the internet, too? There's no body language involved yet the difference in communication is still apparent.


Perhaps it's a bit of a "spill-over" effect? We're used to being misunderstood in speech, so we expect it every time we communicate. At the same time, we forget that we're better at writing than speaking, and thus better understood in writing as well. So in the end, it seems like excessive over-explanation and we don't always realize it. Does that make sense?



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28 May 2012, 1:36 pm

I have to admit i do over explain but its part of me and it happens when people ask for directions as i don't give out quick answers instead i give out long answers with complex words.



Tawaki
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28 May 2012, 2:42 pm

jackbus01 wrote:
Tawaki wrote:
My Aspie husband does this, and it can be really painful. Yes/no question or something that needs one sentence can morph into a 10 minute monolog, with everyone around mentally checking out.

It is really bad at a doctor appointment. When Fior went for his Aspie diagnoses appt., he told the psych guy he couldn't possibly have Asperger. Then promptly dragged out a dossier the size of the Manhattan phone book with all the the tiniest details of his life. About 3/4 ths of it, the psych guy didn't give a sh** about. And Fior got angry when the dude asked a relative question. Fior felt the psych needed the whole, excruciating long story FIRST, then questions.

I'll be honest, I checked out 5 minutes into the monolog. Psych guy was very polite and manage to reign Fior in around the 20 min mark.

Fior can't prioritize anything. Any subject needs the PhD thesis behind it. Mix horrible executive functioning skills, total lack of noticing body language and a helping of social anxiety, Fior can talk non stop about ketsup, when you ask, "Can you pass the ketsup over here."


Double post!?

Well, I don't know the context of this story (perhaps more detail would help, ironically this post underexplains!), but sometimes an honest yes/no answer does not tell the whole story. Here is an example: Do you like your husband? (yes/no only please :) ). I would probably be upset if my discussion was interrupted with an relative question. There are two sides to stories like this. BTW what is a relative question?--do you mean relevant?

The problem is most people assume things and people speak far too vaguely and grossly underexplain things. I think it helps to be explicit and detailed. That is the key to good communication and to avoid misunderstandings. Fortunately, people on WP seem to be good at this for the most part.


My husband can talk, in a casual conversation for over 1 hour and 30 mins, uninterrupted.

A discussion takes two people. Unless you are giving a lecture on a subject, the other person will check out at the 15 minute mark, if there isn't a break for a question etc.

Fior has no clue how to shift between -this is work, and I am explaining a technical issue to a co worker, which does need very explicit detail- to I saw Jim in the hallway, and we are just chit chatting.
This got him into trouble at work. He stands way too close and sounds like he is lecturing, not talking. Fior doesn't read the body language where someone is being polite and would like to add to the conversation. This isn't debate class were one side gets 10 minutes to make a point with the other side not talking. Everyone thought he was being an arrogant, bullying jerk. The truth is quite the opposite, Fior is terrified of making a mistake. He feels he must get everything "out there" or he won't be understood. That more is a good thing.

The psychiatrist (who specializes in ASD), did not want to plow through Fior's 2 inch thick dossier from birth to now. The fact that it was two inches, with outlines, time lines, and graphs, and rambled in intricate detail screamed Asperger. It lacked, the much needed medical test results from his neurologist and internists. THAT was important to rule out organic causes. I knew the stuff wasn't in there, and the doctor would be aggravated, but it wasn't important to Fior. (those were faxed over later, pick your battles).

Details: Fior went to psychiatrist for diagnosis of ASD, brought 2 inch dossier of rambling, not important details with him. Doctor let Fior talk for 20 mins, which is really unusual as most would have cut him off at the 5 min. mark.

The dossier wasn't really needed. Fior has sensory issue up the wazoo, light, sound, food, touch. No friends out side the family. Uses no eye contact in conversations with others. Does not read body language at all. Stims by pulling/his twirling his hair. Lost job due to communication issues. Bombed whatever test is used to evaluate executive functioning. Has a very high IQ.

He has the best sense of dry humour I have ever met. Fior is kind to a fault and loyal. A very, very hard worker. Can talk on a variety of esoteric subjects. Willing to put up with my goofiness. A good father to our child. And together (when he is feeling well), we can have a blast together.

There is a whole lot of good in Fior.

Just because I discussed his tendency to turn a conversation into a monolog, doesn't mean I don't love him. I'm sure he can nit pick apart all my valid faults too.

Relationships mean accepting the rough with the smooth. And we both try to do that. After 25 years of marriage, it is getting better.









.



Tawaki
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28 May 2012, 2:57 pm

edgewaters wrote:
Blownmind wrote:
Tawaki wrote:
When Fior went for his Aspie diagnoses appt., he told the psych guy he couldn't possibly have Asperger. Then promptly dragged out a dossier the size of the Manhattan phone book with all the the tiniest details of his life.

*hides the dossier(s) I made for my Asperger diagnosis*


Oh God ... I was planning to spend the next couple of months assembling one with school records and notes and all sorts of stuff.

OK ... I still am. Those school records at least really make the case. I'm worried about misdiagnosis so I want them to have the most accurate information. The whole process seems quite arbitrary.


If you live in the States, go to the SSA/SSDI web site and see what they use for criteria to grant disability. Google "Blue Book", which is what SSA uses. It will break down each section of what EXACTLY they are looking for. You can arrange according to that as a rough outline.

Okay, I'll provide the links

http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professio ... stings.htm (main page)

http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professio ... -Adult.htm (sorry gentle readers, SSA files Autism under mental disorders)

http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professio ... .htm#12_10

(12.10 is Autism)

Fior could have gutted about 3/4 ths of what he had using 12.10 as a guide. Believe me, people reviewing your case will not rejoice grinding through extra material. You can even break it up in sections.
People don't mind big files, if they can quickly find what they need. That is why sections help.

It is fine assembling things for a medical appointment, or a government agency. Just make sure EVERYTHING has a purpose in making your case.



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28 May 2012, 3:06 pm

I definitely over-explain. I do it more in writing, probably because there's nothing/no one to interrupt me. In person, it usually goes one of three ways: 1) I go on and on... and on and on, and then I realize that I've been talking for a while and then I say something like, "I'm just going to stop talking now," or "Okay I'm done talking," 2) I start rambling about something, and someone else interrupts politely, or something happens that forces me to stop, such as class starting, or 3) I try to speak but I am too tired so I don't explain enough, and say a few words that seem related in my mind but probably aren't getting my point across, or I say, "I don't know," or something else short.


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