IQ's?

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04 Aug 2012, 4:16 am

This might be a bit outdated but Im just wondering(and someone I know in real life brought up a good point) how come a hallmark trait of Aspergers people is having a VERY high IQ? I mean that really doesnt make sense, usually most professional (referring to neuropsychologists here) IQ testing here measures the verbal AND nonverbal, so if the two average out to be a genius/high iq level, how can someone have Aspergers/struggle with making/keeping friends? Especially since the Verbal AND Nonverbal IQ are averaged out to be in the Genius range.....?

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FalsettoTesla
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04 Aug 2012, 4:32 am

Keniichi wrote:

There seems to be a lot of disagreement on this topic, but it's my understanding that an average (by average the psychiatric community seem to mean not clinically ret*d) IQ is required to be diagnosed with Aspergers, but that IQ fluctuations are fairly consistent with the rest of the population. It's just that the Aspie geniuses get peoples attention.

Well, no IQ test I've seen tests non-verbal communication skills, by non-verbal they seem to mean entirely logic, intuition and pattern recognition testing. But then I definitely haven't seen every IQ test.

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04 Aug 2012, 4:34 am

Keniichi wrote:

This might be a bit outdated but Im just wondering(and someone I know in real life brought up a good point) how come a hallmark trait of Aspergers people is having a VERY high IQ?

Quote:

I mean that really doesnt make sense, usually most professional (referring to neuropsychologists here) IQ testing here measures the verbal AND nonverbal, so if the two average out to be a genius/high iq level, how can someone have Aspergers/struggle with making/keeping friends? Especially since the Verbal AND Nonverbal IQ are averaged out to be in the Genius range.....?

Because Asperger's and ASDs are so much more than a lack of abilities that are measured by IQ tests. How can Aspies be otherwise normal and sometimes even smarter than others but so deficient at other important life skills? Some tests that show a NT/Aspie difference that you might want to check out are the Reading the Mind in the Eyes Test, the Autism Quotient, the Systemizing Quotient, the Empathy Quotient, and the seeing-leads-to-knowing-test.

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04 Aug 2012, 4:50 am

FalsettoTesla wrote:

Keniichi wrote:

From what I know the Nonverbal IQ testing is supposed to test the areas of the brain that have to do with ALL nonverbal communication(gestures, and other things us Aspies arents supposed to get).

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04 Aug 2012, 4:52 am

cooldryplace wrote:

Keniichi wrote:

This might be a bit outdated but Im just wondering(and someone I know in real life brought up a good point) how come a hallmark trait of Aspergers people is having a VERY high IQ?

Is it? From what I've read the average is only slightly higher than the default IQ average of 100. Also, a diagnosis is only given if the subject has an IQ over 70. By "hallmark trait," do you actually mean stereotype?
I have no idea but almost every conference and doctor I have seen have proven that ALL the Aspies they treat are Geniuses (based on IQ tests)

Quote:

As for the empathy thats something I dont get either if the extremely bright ones (that I know) appear arrogant and have no Empathy for others yet the lower functioning ones seem to, and quite frankly seem more higher functioning then the 'Geniuses'? Why is this?

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04 Aug 2012, 5:52 am

The WAIS (as an example) doesn't measure much, if anything, that relates to social skills.

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04 Aug 2012, 5:56 am

Keniichi wrote:

cooldryplace wrote:

Keniichi wrote:

This might be a bit outdated but Im just wondering(and someone I know in real life brought up a good point) how come a hallmark trait of Aspergers people is having a VERY high IQ?

Quote:

Functioning and intelligence are not synonymous at all. A genius can be low functioning, and a person of less than normal intelligence can be high functioning. As long as you don't have serious intellectual impairments then intelligence isn't a good indicator of functioning.

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04 Aug 2012, 6:25 am

Keniichi wrote:

You are somewhat right, typical aspies see lot's of inconsiestency in their IQ test subscores. Doing exceptionally well in some specific areas (which vary) and not so well in others. It doesn't average out to genius, it tends to average out to average

IQ is sometimes usually used to differentiate between LFA and HFA/Aspergers, if you are under 65-70 then it's LFA, above it's HFA/Aspergers. I don't think anyone considers an IQ of 65 to be high.

Above average IQ can lead to better coping skills often described as high functioning. These social skills are not as fluid or automatic as the innate skills that aspies are missing, consiously using your intellect to overcome your social deficiencies can lead to anxiety and stress.

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04 Aug 2012, 6:43 am

Jtuk wrote:

Above average IQ can lead to better coping skills often described as high functioning. These social skills are not as fluid or automatic as the innate skills that aspies are missing, consiously using your intellect to overcome your social deficiencies can lead to anxiety and stress.

Well... IQ scores not a good measure of function in autism (link)[/b]

Essentially, I think the whole idea people have of "using your intellect to overcome impairments" when looking at cognitive impairments like ADHD and autism is a myth.

But maybe I only say that because I tested at genius level for IQ and I am pretty impaired.

Last edited by Verdandi on 04 Aug 2012, 11:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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04 Aug 2012, 11:33 am

Keniichi wrote:

Neither has anything to do with social skills.

Verdandi wrote:

Essentially, I think the whole idea people have of "using your intellect to overcome impairments" when looking at cognitive impairments like ADHD and autism is a myth.

I agree. I wish people would lay that theory to rest once and for all!

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04 Aug 2012, 11:40 am

http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/10/w ... in-common/

"Surprisingly, however, the study found that not all of the prodigies had high IQs. Indeed, while they had higher-than-average intelligence, some didn’t have IQs that were as elevated as their performance and early achievements would suggest. One child had an IQ of just 108, at the high end of normal."

I think they will find this to hold true for those on the spectrum, as well.

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Last edited by TheSunAlsoRises on 04 Aug 2012, 11:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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04 Aug 2012, 11:46 am

Let me cut to the chase.

When someone is dealing with re-wiring of a brain which may have YET discovered anatomical differences; conventional ways .......of how the brain works and is measured may not suffice.

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04 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm

Keniichi wrote:

FalsettoTesla wrote:

Keniichi wrote:

From what I know the Nonverbal IQ testing is supposed to test the areas of the brain that have to do with ALL nonverbal communication(gestures, and other things us Aspies arents supposed to get).

It does not. Communication is not tested in IQ tests. The nonverbal part refers to stuff like pictures.

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04 Aug 2012, 2:30 pm

Quote:

From what I know the Nonverbal IQ testing is supposed to test the areas of the brain that have to do with ALL nonverbal communication(gestures, and other things us Aspies arents supposed to get).

Not at all. It's pretty much entirely visuospatial reasoning, which has nothing to do with social skills.

On the Weschler tests, the only subtest that has any relevance to social skills is the Comprehension test, which is a verbal test. And even then, it's only lowered in the lower functioning half of AS people, because it measures knowledge of basic social norms, and if you have mild impairment in social skills, you can figure that stuff out while still not knowing the more subtle, situation-specific things that can't be boiled down to a general rule.

Now, if you're wondering why someone can be so smart and yet so clueless about social things, that's because those involve different skill sets. (I've met people with IQs under 75 who have better social skills than me, after all.) Just like of AS people as being like foreigners (in fact, we often do well when we actually are foreigners, because the issues are so similar).

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05 Aug 2012, 4:53 am

Ganondox wrote:

Keniichi wrote:

FalsettoTesla wrote:

Keniichi wrote:

From what I know the Nonverbal IQ testing is supposed to test the areas of the brain that have to do with ALL nonverbal communication(gestures, and other things us Aspies arents supposed to get).

It does not. Communication is not tested in IQ tests. The nonverbal part refers to stuff like pictures.

Then why is it called "nonverbal"? Especially when were not supposed to get nonverbal communication?

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05 Aug 2012, 4:55 am

Ettina wrote:

Quote:

From what I know the Nonverbal IQ testing is supposed to test the areas of the brain that have to do with ALL nonverbal communication(gestures, and other things us Aspies arents supposed to get).

Oh ok thanks for explaining.

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