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nrau
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16 Aug 2012, 10:02 am

Autism is a superior form of human.

Good grief! Americans are sure afraid of this "racist" label, aren't they?



ShamelessGit
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16 Aug 2012, 10:10 am

A lot of people have said that racism was the wrong word. Which word should I have used? I don't think there is a word for discrimination against people with neurological differences. Racism never makes much sense, as I already said, because there aren't any traits that any particular race has that no other race has, and everyone is a mutt-breed. But racism is the word people use to describe discrimination against physically different groups of people. And anyway I am addressing this post to people who seem to think of NT as a separate race.

Examples: There was an earlier post titled, "Are Aspies even Homo Sapien?" (or something similar) and there were several posts there saying something about how Aspies are better than NT somehow. There were a couple other posts I saw in the past couple years where the authors said that he wished that there would be a catastrophe or something that wiped all the NT out. I'm sorry for putting my original message in such bad context.

Several people have said it isn't racist to celebrate the differences between Autistics and NT. I don't think it is either and I think I tried to say that. I'm not addressing this post to the majority of aspies. I've only seen maybe half a dozen posts/discussions that seemed to me to be trying to say that Autistics are inherently better than NT (as opposed to explaining how they are different) in the past 3 years or so that I've paid attention to the online aspie community, so it is not that many.

Somebody told me that saying that black people tend to have fat lips is racist. I don't see how that is racist at all. You can take measurements of groups of people who identify as a particular race and you will find that the proportions on the face are on average different. If they weren't then there would be no way to distinguish between "races." What is racist is if you said that people with certain face proportions are more likely to commit crimes than people with other facial proportions. As for it being racist because I use my own lip size as the basis for comparison when I call black peoples' lips fat, I don't give a damn. Using a different reference point would not change the meaning of what I was trying to say.

Again, talking about how people are different if your description of the differences is void of value judgement is not racist, but probably just explaining how you differentiate between the two groups of people. I did not mean to say that talking about things that are used in the diagnosis of aspergers are racist.



Tequila
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16 Aug 2012, 10:18 am

ShamelessGit wrote:
A lot of people have said that racism was the wrong word. Which word should I have used? I don't think there is a word for discrimination against people with neurological differences. Racism never makes much sense, as I already said, because there aren't any traits that any particular race has that no other race has, and everyone is a mutt-breed. But racism is the word people use to describe discrimination against physically different groups of people. And anyway I am addressing this post to people who seem to think of NT as a separate race.


Supremacist?



The_Walrus
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16 Aug 2012, 11:08 am

starkid wrote:
Somberlain wrote:
Also, the best way to deal with any kind of discrimination is not to talk about it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "discrimination."

I think I know what Somberlain means. I agree that the best way to deal with racism in the common person is to stop acknowledging it exists. I only realised it was possible to discriminate on the grounds of race when a new member of my class who was very annoying started accusing people of racism. Racism would probably be less of a problem if we didn't go looking for it.

However, sometimes there genuinely is a problem- people are violent towards one faction, employers won't employ a faction so willingly, the police discriminate. That needs to be talked about, it needs to be exposed and changed.



CyclopsSummers
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16 Aug 2012, 11:22 am

ShamelessGit wrote:

You're right. Which word was I trying to use?


I would have gone with 'taxonomically', as you were trying to emphasise that Aspies and NTs belong to one and the same species.

But as 'taxonomy' is not a widely known word, I think 'biologically' would also have been acceptable. I tend to avoid the terms 'zoology' and 'botany', as their relevance has waned ever since it was discovered that dividing all organisms into 'plants' and 'animals' has no basis in genetics.


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Somberlain
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16 Aug 2012, 1:02 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
starkid wrote:
Somberlain wrote:
Also, the best way to deal with any kind of discrimination is not to talk about it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "discrimination."

I think I know what Somberlain means. I agree that the best way to deal with racism in the common person is to stop acknowledging it exists. I only realised it was possible to discriminate on the grounds of race when a new member of my class who was very annoying started accusing people of racism. Racism would probably be less of a problem if we didn't go looking for it.

However, sometimes there genuinely is a problem- people are violent towards one faction, employers won't employ a faction so willingly, the police discriminate. That needs to be talked about, it needs to be exposed and changed.


Exactly. Here is the sequence: Forming groups/factions -> Generalizations -> Discrimination

So this is not only about racism. All kinds of discrimination can be avoided by this way. I think the only category should be ''living beings/organisms''. Now all we hear ''Blond women are...'', ''Black men are...'', ''Germans are...'', ''Tall people are...'', ''Aspies are...'', ''Dogs are...'' etc. This is nonsense. Generalizations should only be used for scientific purposes, because in daily life people tend to make faulty generalizations (link here). Science always considers probabilities in generalizations, people do not. So we have to evaluate every single organism with its own properties.

''All generalizations are dangerous, even this one.'' -Alexander Dumas

Now I am saying it again: Since AS definition allows us to form a faction and and make generalizations over it, discrimination (racism or whatever) is unavoidable.

I think this (link) is somewhat related.


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You scored 124 aloof, 121 rigid and 95 pragmatic.

English is not my native language. 1000th edit, here I come.


Nonperson
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16 Aug 2012, 1:44 pm

Nonsense. Making categories and generalizations is simply how people think - telling people not to is telling them not to think, or at least not to think about those categories you've decided it's bad to think about in this way: judging from your example, living things (doing which would involve forming groups and generalizing in itself).

No, instead of thinking less, people need to think more. They need to think about the categories and generalizations they're making, about what the exceptions might be, what biases they might be in danger of developing, what the consequences could be. We need to deconstruct our categories, try different ones, ask ourselves where they come from and what purpose they serve. Yes, that's a lot of thinking, but it needs to be done.

For example: it is not wrong to notice some people have blue hair and some have green. It would not be wrong if you noticed that all the blue-haired people you knew seemed stupid, either. It would be wrong to stop there and believe it, instead of asking yourself whether, for instance, you were biased in your observation of hair color or intelligence, there was another reason for it (stupid people coloring their hair blue, for instance), you wanted to feel superior as a green haired person, someone told you it was that way, your sample size was very small, etc. People tend to question only those generalizations that hurt their own ego, and to latch onto those that bolster it, which is something to be on guard against. Don't stop thinking, but think about the thinking process, too.

EDIT: To bring it back to the original topic: viewing AS as deficient or superior is a value judgment and subjective. I personally try not to do either, but seeing it as superior could be a deliberate choice on the part of some in order to counteract a lifetime of feeling inferior. The consequences of "pride" in a group that's at a disadvantage tend not to be the same as in a group that has an advantage (explained in the post I quoted before).



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16 Aug 2012, 2:04 pm

Nonperson wrote:
Nonsense. Making categories and generalizations is simply how people think - telling people not to is telling them not to think, or at least not to think about those categories you've decided it's bad to think about in this way: judging from your example, living things (doing which would involve forming groups and generalizing in itself).

No, instead of thinking less, people need to think more. They need to think about the categories and generalizations they're making, about what the exceptions might be, what biases they might be in danger of developing, what the consequences could be. We need to deconstruct our categories, try different ones, ask ourselves where they come from and what purpose they serve. Yes, that's a lot of thinking, but it needs to be done.

For example: it is not wrong to notice some people have blue hair and some have green. It would not be wrong if you noticed that all the blue-haired people you knew seemed stupid, either. It would be wrong to stop there and believe it, instead of asking yourself whether, for instance, you were biased in your observation of hair color or intelligence, there was another reason for it (stupid people bleaching their hair), you wanted to feel superior as a green haired person, someone told you it was that way, your sample size was very small, etc. People tend to question only those generalizations that hurt their own ego, and to latch onto those that bolster it, which is something to be on guard against. Don't stop thinking, but think about the thinking process, too.


You are defending the same perspective without realizing it, in my opinion. A thinking person needs less generalizations (this is also a generalization, I know). This is what I am talking about. It is not ''do not think'', it is ''do not generalize''. I demand more thinking from people actually.

Let me clarify: Thinking and generalization is different. Generalization is the final product of thinking. And yes, everything including theory of gravity is based on generalizations. But, why are we creating unnecessary groups in society?


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Aspie quiz: 158/200 AS AQ: 39 EQ: 17 SQ: 76.
You scored 124 aloof, 121 rigid and 95 pragmatic.

English is not my native language. 1000th edit, here I come.


davidgolfpro
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16 Aug 2012, 3:18 pm

Why are you obsessed with race and Aspies??? You seem like a big time troll ! What your damn problem?



nrau
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16 Aug 2012, 4:01 pm

Somberlain wrote:
Nonperson wrote:
Nonsense. Making categories and generalizations is simply how people think - telling people not to is telling them not to think, or at least not to think about those categories you've decided it's bad to think about in this way: judging from your example, living things (doing which would involve forming groups and generalizing in itself).

No, instead of thinking less, people need to think more. They need to think about the categories and generalizations they're making, about what the exceptions might be, what biases they might be in danger of developing, what the consequences could be. We need to deconstruct our categories, try different ones, ask ourselves where they come from and what purpose they serve. Yes, that's a lot of thinking, but it needs to be done.

For example: it is not wrong to notice some people have blue hair and some have green. It would not be wrong if you noticed that all the blue-haired people you knew seemed stupid, either. It would be wrong to stop there and believe it, instead of asking yourself whether, for instance, you were biased in your observation of hair color or intelligence, there was another reason for it (stupid people bleaching their hair), you wanted to feel superior as a green haired person, someone told you it was that way, your sample size was very small, etc. People tend to question only those generalizations that hurt their own ego, and to latch onto those that bolster it, which is something to be on guard against. Don't stop thinking, but think about the thinking process, too.


You are defending the same perspective without realizing it, in my opinion. A thinking person needs less generalizations (this is also a generalization, I know). This is what I am talking about. It is not ''do not think'', it is ''do not generalize''. I demand more thinking from people actually.

Let me clarify: Thinking and generalization is different. Generalization is the final product of thinking. And yes, everything including theory of gravity is based on generalizations. But, why are we creating unnecessary groups in society?


It's not creating groups, it's naming the groups that already exist.



Matterik
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06 Jul 2014, 2:10 am

I am a racist. I think its natural to be. The reason so many whites are not racists is because the white race does not have a functional emotional soul on an ethnic level. Just look at hitler how he attacked his own kind with homosexuals and ret*d people etc. Racism should include total tolerance for your own race. Otherwise racism fails and the failure of racism is what we see in the white race. Racism among white people is not tolerant enough towards all white people to form a strong unified body. So infiltrators can come and take over the societies and promote destructive multiculturalism like the Jews do nowadays. The Jews are racist, they stand up for their own ethnic group first and foremost. That is why they succeed. But the white man does not necessarily at all. He attacks his own kind. Just check what happened in hitlers germany.

Among other races you can make comparisons. The cambodians failed to create a racist society an ethnic national identity. They also attacked their own kind. Pol pot did kill disabled cambodians and intellectual cambodians. The vietnamese succeeded in creating an ethnic society. They dont kill off their ethnic vietnamese homosexuals, disabled or those with a different religious views.