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invisiblesilent
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17 Aug 2012, 4:43 pm

I also lie, as many have said I think the vast majority of people do. I've known some pretty profoundly disabled (as in mostly non-communicative, low IQ, requiring 24h care) autistic people lie too. They were pretty bad at it admittedly. I'm pretty bad at it most of the time to be honest. For the lie to have a good chance of success then I have to have rehearsed how the conversation will go (I do this a lot anyway) and ALL of the questions which might be asked relating to the topic about which I am lying. If things go pretty much to the script it usually works. If I try to lie to someone who knows me very well then it wont normally work. I have lied to lots of employers and gotten away with it and I used to lie to my teachers about why I hadn't done/didn't have my homework.



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17 Aug 2012, 5:38 pm

pastafarian wrote:
and the posturing "it makes me feel better to puff myself up" ones.


That right there - I think most Aspies who claim "they don't care what other people think of them anymore" must be postering; our sensitivities make us care, some certainly will be more bothered by it than others, but we all care to some degree.



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17 Aug 2012, 5:49 pm

dyingofpoetry wrote:
I know, because I'm good at it if I need to cover my butt, spare someone something hurtful, or just to make up a good story for conversation. Also, I'm a writer and certainly we have enough imagination to make things up! But....

...most Aspies I know just prefer NOT to lie. It's just so much easier and simpler to tell the truth and I agree with that 100%! If everyone around me really preferred the truth and could handle it, I'd much prefer to never lie at all!


Can you lie quickly on the fly? I rarely can, but can conjure something up within a minute or so. I rarely tell stories, used to write when I was kid, but can barely string thoughts together in conversation. I recall getting bitched out by one of my NT aquaintances at a party when I was younger because I "never tell any stories". What kind of stories do you tell people when you chat with them?

I, like most of the rest of us, prefer not to lie. Truth, or "the truth" of any situation, is one of my obsessions. Call me Mulder. 8)



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17 Aug 2012, 5:56 pm

TowerCrane wrote:
OP, why do you call yourself an Aspie if you weren't diagnosed? That's like saying that there's a cat under my bed without checking whether there's one or not.


Self Diagnosis.



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17 Aug 2012, 5:59 pm

Lying is actually a social skill (though not a particularly good one). There are two issues, I think:

First, when Autists lie, it is often obvious. We generally make lousy liars. Now, like anything else, social skills, including lying, can be learned. Social skills are challenges, not impossibilities.

Second, Autists are frequently honest to a fault. I had to learn how to be tactful. It did not come naturally.


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17 Aug 2012, 6:04 pm

I generally only tell white lies to not hurt someone's feelings. Also I can not lie well on the spur of the moment. I wonder if NT's have less feelings of guilt than persons on the spectrum or are NTs just better at it.


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17 Aug 2012, 6:11 pm

Though it is not something I am proud of, I am a good liar and actress, when the situation calls for it. I need to study the people I lie to first, in order for it to be believable, and so in order to study them closely, I tend to dumb myself down so they don't think I am intelligent. I try not to lie about anything unimportant, only to make someone feel better, or to protect someone, Ect. However, I need to constantly watch myself, because sometimes it is just so easy to manipulate people, whether I lie or not. I might not understand why people think and feel the way they do, but I can generally pick up on it and exploit it. :oops:
This does make me a good peacekeeper though, and I am able to defuse situations between my dad and sisters, or my dad and brothers. Defusing tension between my parents is another story entirely. :?
I'm such a rotten human being! :(



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17 Aug 2012, 6:24 pm

AutisticBelle wrote:
I'm such a rotten human being! :(


Actually ability to lie is one of the main advantages of the intelligent life forms - we can lie, manipulate and deceive others to our advantage. This is one of the main reasons why we evolved ability to Reason.



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17 Aug 2012, 6:26 pm

TowerCrane wrote:
OP, why do you call yourself an Aspie if you weren't diagnosed? That's like saying that there's a cat under my bed without checking whether there's one or not.


If you can hear a cat meowing and purring under your bed and you can see a shadow of a cat then you can be pretty certain there is a cat under the bed ;)

In another way: Some people might not have access to somebody who is able to diagnose them. If the person clearly displays most or all of the symptoms/traits/criteria of AS and has discovered that the coping mechanisms which work for aspies work for them then why shouldn't they describe themself as aspie? I was happy to use that term about myself nearly the moment I learned about AS. My auntie who spent a lifetime working with autistic people agrees as do the rest of my family. I haven't been diagnosed (yet) but have been referred and I am on the road to getting a diagnosis starting nearly exactly a month from now. If this option isn't available to somebody else don't you think they should be allowed to draw their own conclusion and act appropriately? Imagine how it feels to live a lifetime feeling like an alien from another world and having no support, no explanation.

Even if someone displays those traits and wouldn't get a diagnosis then this is still the place for them. As the Bipolar, Tourettes and other conditions forum description says: "We welcome all neurodiverse individuals, with or without Autism!". So personally I don't think it's nice to call people out on this stuff. In the end what difference does it make to you?



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17 Aug 2012, 6:55 pm

invisiblesilent wrote:
TowerCrane wrote:
OP, why do you call yourself an Aspie if you weren't diagnosed? That's like saying that there's a cat under my bed without checking whether there's one or not.


If you can hear a cat meowing and purring under your bed and you can see a shadow of a cat then you can be pretty certain there is a cat under the bed ;)

In another way: Some people might not have access to somebody who is able to diagnose them. If the person clearly displays most or all of the symptoms/traits/criteria of AS and has discovered that the coping mechanisms which work for aspies work for them then why shouldn't they describe themself as aspie? I was happy to use that term about myself nearly the moment I learned about AS. My auntie who spent a lifetime working with autistic people agrees as do the rest of my family. I haven't been diagnosed (yet) but have been referred and I am on the road to getting a diagnosis starting nearly exactly a month from now. If this option isn't available to somebody else don't you think they should be allowed to draw their own conclusion and act appropriately? Imagine how it feels to live a lifetime feeling like an alien from another world and having no support, no explanation.

Even if someone displays those traits and wouldn't get a diagnosis then this is still the place for them. As the Bipolar, Tourettes and other conditions forum description says: "We welcome all neurodiverse individuals, with or without Autism!". So personally I don't think it's nice to call people out on this stuff. In the end what difference does it make to you?


No, it's like a blind, deaf, highly tactile insensitive and rather olfactory insensitive person trying to determine whether there's a cat under his bed or not without any assistance.

Not only does one have to have proper education in the required area in order to make a diagnosis, but one also has to be observed, and not only observe oneself. People tend to underestimate and overestimate many of their symptoms. Self-observation tends to lead to a very low degree of certainty.



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17 Aug 2012, 7:05 pm

Nonperson wrote:
Also: I'm not going to say much about this because it's upsetting me too much, but those of you who are saying "people who say they don't lie, are lying" need to stop. That conventional wisdom bullshit is not true, no matter how much you might like it to be, and it's very hurtful. As for social repercussions, you're on a board for people with AS, how many here do you think can get through social interactions smoothly? Not everyone is like you, and assuming that is downright toxic.


Thank you for writing this. I find it really frustrating when people here assert that others are just like them in a particular way. This one is not the most common, but it's no less frustrating.



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17 Aug 2012, 9:50 pm

From the point of view of someone who never has knowingly spoken something untrue in over a decade.

Some of us are this extreme. I expect is is quite unusual. I do not know anyone else like this. There are in fact repercussions - I completely agree with this. (There are also repercussions for quite a few other things of my behaviors, like not looking people in the eye.) There are in fact advantages to having the ability to lie in at least a few situations.

In my case, if I attempt to verbally it feels like my throat is closing up and my vocal cords won't move. Its a type of feeling nonverbal that is being unable to force any words out of my mouth at all, not just the lie. It's that extreme of a response.

If I am in a meltdown, I can say things that are untrue that in that moment I truly believe are true. But if I know they are untrue I cannot say them. If I believe them to be untrue I cannot say them. This makes interviewing even more difficult than professionals who are trying to work with me are realizing, along with other challenges that go into interviewing.

However - I can mislead. I must have every thing I say be true in order to mislead people. If people talk to me and have reason to believe I might have serious reason to be trying to mislead them then what they need to do is look at the logical statement behind every statement I made and see what they actually know from that. People like to make connections to things that you never say. It's stronger than what people talk about with "lying by omission", though in some ways related. (And I'm sorry, but I am not good at explaining the connections and differences.)

I absolutely hate misleading people, will only do it if I feel its the better option for other people, and am quite good at it without trying to be. I'm compared to Aes Sedai by quite a few people for a reason.

But no, I don't think you are strange or a bad person for being able to lie. I think I am unusual for not being able to.



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17 Aug 2012, 10:02 pm

I think the stereotype of honesty for people on the spectrum comes from not knowing when to lie. I've been far too honest in situations that called for a white lie but didn't pick up on it until after I was told. I still do this not knowing I should lie. I also frequently find lying extremely funny so I make a terrible liar. I have tried to lie to make people feel better but about 80% of the time I will burst out laughing which ruins the effect.



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17 Aug 2012, 10:09 pm

We're all different. I lie. I hate to and feel guilty but I still do it. I used to do it compulsively as a teenager.

Some of us are math whizzes, others can't even do our times tables.

I think the stereotype comes from that we are usually honest. We're honest when social customs calls for us to lie. We're honest even when it will get us or others into trouble. Still we can lie to cover our a**es.

The way I lie is to skirt around the truth, change the subject or say very few words so the lie doesn't come out. Depending on what your view on lying is that could still be a lie. But I find I go monotone and make too much eye contact when I lie.


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17 Aug 2012, 10:35 pm

TowerCrane wrote:
invisiblesilent wrote:
TowerCrane wrote:
OP, why do you call yourself an Aspie if you weren't diagnosed? That's like saying that there's a cat under my bed without checking whether there's one or not.


If you can hear a cat meowing and purring under your bed and you can see a shadow of a cat then you can be pretty certain there is a cat under the bed ;)

In another way: Some people might not have access to somebody who is able to diagnose them. If the person clearly displays most or all of the symptoms/traits/criteria of AS and has discovered that the coping mechanisms which work for aspies work for them then why shouldn't they describe themself as aspie? I was happy to use that term about myself nearly the moment I learned about AS. My auntie who spent a lifetime working with autistic people agrees as do the rest of my family. I haven't been diagnosed (yet) but have been referred and I am on the road to getting a diagnosis starting nearly exactly a month from now. If this option isn't available to somebody else don't you think they should be allowed to draw their own conclusion and act appropriately? Imagine how it feels to live a lifetime feeling like an alien from another world and having no support, no explanation.

Even if someone displays those traits and wouldn't get a diagnosis then this is still the place for them. As the Bipolar, Tourettes and other conditions forum description says: "We welcome all neurodiverse individuals, with or without Autism!". So personally I don't think it's nice to call people out on this stuff. In the end what difference does it make to you?


No, it's like a blind, deaf, highly tactile insensitive and rather olfactory insensitive person trying to determine whether there's a cat under his bed or not without any assistance.

Not only does one have to have proper education in the required area in order to make a diagnosis, but one also has to be observed, and not only observe oneself. People tend to underestimate and overestimate many of their symptoms. Self-observation tends to lead to a very low degree of certainty.


You didn't answer the other questions. I agree with you that self diagnosis isn't very reliable which is why I am pursuing a diagnosis. There are people for whom that is not an option. Perhaps they don't have the money to pay, their insurance doesn't cover it or their local health authority will not offer them an assessment. Do you think those people should not be allowed to seek the peace of mind and understanding that a self diagnosis brings them? Do you think that the people who have done that deserve to have it called out? People who have perhaps been marginalised their whole life because of their difficulties and have finally found a place where they feel welcome and accepted. You might not agree with people who have self diagnosed and I agree that perhaps they cannot be 100% certain. But if they have no alternative then calling them out because they have self diagnosed is really shitty tbh.