Why both geniuses & retardates seem autistic

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This was a fascinating read....

*Just a bit of a comment about your hypothesis: At a certain level, the difference is opportunity, timing, and resources.
TheSunAlsoRises

One of my current theories on that is that the brain has a certain amount of time dedicated to development (with different time periods for different types of development), and if our brain spends too much time developing one thing (e.g. developing the parts/connections that allow mathematical genius), it won't have enough time to spend on something else. So to create your "average person", you have the brain develop at the "standard" rate, across the board. Change anything around and something has to win and something else has to lose. This is of course a simplified model that assumes an otherwise normal course of development.

Another theory is just that whatever is happening to cause the genius is the same things that causes the madness, i.e. it's the same function/processes. So if the function that was effected was "awareness of processing", i.e. whether thoughts are conscious or not, then if it is tipped to far to the conscious side, you get someone with ASD who may have a greater ability to solve certain types of puzzles, but a weakened ability to socialise, as socialising works better if done on a more subconscious level. If it is tipped too far to the subconscious side, you get someone who may have a greater ability to conjure up new ideas and artistic concepts, but a weakened ability to rationalise, for example.

Disclaimer: Above paragraph was me thinking out loud, these are not well-formed thoughts. Pick apart at will.

^ I agree with the hypothesis that what causes the genius causes the madness. This has been shown by how traumatic brain injuries later in life can bring out savant abilities. Savant expert Darold Treffert is a believer of this hypothesis: Savantism

There have also been studies that show how turning off inhibitory processes of the neurotypical brain using TMS can bring about savant-like abilities for a short period of time after the stimulation. The creativity often seen in mania seems to be related to this lack of inhibition of thoughts, as there have been many cases of traumatic brain injury resulting in hypergraphia or a compulsive need to create art as is sometimes seen in mania.

But again, I do not believe in the "subconscious/conscious" part whatsoever. The inhibition of certain talents in the NT brain is all a result of neurotransmitters and activation and/or inactivation of specific connective pathways.

Thanks, good food for thought. I'm not sure but I think you're perspective is kind of similar to my thoughts about "filters". If too much information gets through the filters (or the filters aren't there), that can result in either impaired or heightened functioning, depending on the task at hand. It's sort of the same result, but happening at a different place in the process, i.e. at the point that stimuli can be either processed consciously, processed subconsciously, or discarded entirely. Your theory puts the difference a bit later, i.e. after the filters have worked properly but then the pathways after that are different. Does that make any sense? My psychophysiology knowledge is being tested here!!

No, you are correct that "filters" in neuropsych disorders often don't work properly. But the filters are pathways in and of themselves, and they work based on processes of inhibition or excitation. The main filter in the brain for sensory stimuli is the thalamus. OCD is a great example of a problem with filtering out extraneous information, where irrelevant thoughts that should be discarded are processed too often. There is a great amount of evidence that OCD is largely due to problems in a circuit in the brain known as the striato-thalamo-cortical circuit, which involves the basal ganglia (also known as the striatum), thalamus, and orbitalfrontal cortex. Current (strong) hypotheses of problems with this circuit in OCD involve overexcitation of the circuit, which seems to be related to an excess of glutamate, the main excitatory neurotransmitter. The filtering of sensory stimuli occurs relatively early on in cortical processing, and it is a very complex and not-yet-fully-understood phenomenon. Our brains are amazing, and what many people don't realize is that even all of our "conscious" thought processes really are the result of "subconscious" brain activity in more primitive structures. (By the way, why I keep putting quotations around conscious/subconscious is that, in neuroscience, we use these terms to describe whether or not we are actually aware of something, meaning that our frontal lobes are processing something. But the Freudian term is what I am strongly against, and that is what most people mean when they refer to the words.)

Schizophrenics have significantly lower PREMORBID IQ's:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18413704

I believe in both, the biological and psychological manifestations.

TheSunAlsoRises

There are still too many studies that show the opposite. As is the case with most research in neuropsychiatry- the results are mixed and muddled. What I'm saying is that, even in schizophrenics who have decreased premorbid IQs, I do not buy that the decreased IQ is a decrease in actual "intelligence." I think it is showing executive function deficits. IQ tests don't necessarily test "intelligence." I consider "low IQ" to be below 70. Even that meta-analysis you showed only found IQ 1/2 SD lower, which only would be 7.5 points, or 92.5, which is still not all that low. Again, keep in mind that "significantly lower" in statistics doesn't necessarily mean "low IQ" in terms of difficulty functioning. If p < 0.05, "significantly lower" could be anywhere from 40 IQ points lower to 1 IQ point lower. Even the studies that find "significantly lower" IQ in schizophrenia, prodromal or otherwise, are not showing me deficits large enough to agree with your conclusions about IQ. Also, I saw many studies last night in my reading that said how those with psychotic forms of bipolar disorder didn't show any IQ abnormalities. So, if there are significant differences in schizophrenics' IQ, it must not be because of what you were saying about them experiencing hallucinations and delusions, because these psychotic positive symptoms also occur in psychotic mania and psychotic depression. Any lower IQ probably results from schizophrenia's negative symptoms, such as poverty of thought interfering with verbal IQ abilities.

Executive function is part of intelligence, though IQ tests do a poor job measuring it. Actually,in my opinion IQ tests dramatically OVERESTIMATE the intelligence of schizophrenics because executive functioning is hardly measured on such tests.

Again, this is just insulting to schizophrenics everywhere. And poor executive functioning is a sign of neuropsychiatric disorders and different information processing in general, not lower intelligence. Many people, including myself, have poor executive functioning but still have a gifted IQ.