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Sethno
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21 Oct 2013, 12:20 pm

I'd thought it was and someone said something about it that sounded like it isn't (or that they thought it isn't).

Does anyone here know if Non-Verbal Learning Disorder/Disability is on the autism spectrum or not?


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watt4192
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21 Oct 2013, 12:44 pm

At one point I was told by a neuro doctor that I had NVLD because, if I remember right, my verbal IQ was 40 points higher than my perfomance IQ. I asked him if that meant my reach would always exceed my grasp. "What," he said. "Browning," I said. "Uhh," he said, "you are likely to experience a degree of frustration."

Three other doctors have disgreed, saying NVLD doesn't occur with "high" IQ. AS, they say, and one showed me the checked in boxes on the list to prove it.

Who knows? I think my verbal is not disordered. As for the rest . . .



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21 Oct 2013, 12:50 pm

NVLD is not technically a form of autism, but the diagnostic criterion are nearly synonymous. A neurologist diagnosed me with NVLD, and a psychologist diagnosed me with Asperger's. I think that NVLD criteria is slightly more objective and concerned with measurable, quantitative traits such as IQ and sensory processing, but it does encompass pretty much everything else that is covered by Asperger's and autism as well. I'm pretty sure that NVLD requires a significant disparity between areas of intelligence, however, which is common in autism but not necessary for a diagnosis (this seems more in line with savant traits). As far as I am concerned, they are pretty much the same thing.



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21 Oct 2013, 1:05 pm

NVLD can most certainly coincide with high IQ. It just means that one type of a person's IQ is relatively low compared to another, but all areas can still be well above the norm. I found an interesting article here that compares Asperger's to NVLD, and at one point it suggests that Asperger's and NVLD are potentially the same condition while autism is different due to lower functioning:
http://www.nldontheweb.org/nldadvancedreading/nldclinicaldescription.html



Codyrules37
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21 Oct 2013, 1:59 pm

Most likely. I characterize autism by having a deficit in executive functioning, theory of mind, and pragmatic language difficulties.

So in that case, I agree that non-verbal learning disorder is most likely a sign of Autism.



chris5000
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21 Oct 2013, 2:43 pm

I was diagnosed with both



Sethno
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21 Oct 2013, 8:09 pm

watt4192 wrote:
At one point I was told by a neuro doctor that I had NVLD because, if I remember right, my verbal IQ was 40 points higher than my perfomance IQ. I asked him if that meant my reach would always exceed my grasp. "What," he said. "Browning," I said. "Uhh," he said, "you are likely to experience a degree of frustration."

Three other doctors have disgreed, saying NVLD doesn't occur with "high" IQ. AS, they say, and one showed me the checked in boxes on the list to prove it.

Who knows? I think my verbal is not disordered. As for the rest . . .


I don't understand your reply. It doesn't address my question. It sort of dances around it and touches on the same subject, but doesn't answer it. Your wording is also hard to follow.



Sethno
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21 Oct 2013, 8:12 pm

PowderHound wrote:
NVLD can most certainly coincide with high IQ. It just means that one type of a person's IQ is relatively low compared to another, but all areas can still be well above the norm. I found an interesting article here that compares Asperger's to NVLD, and at one point it suggests that Asperger's and NVLD are potentially the same condition while autism is different due to lower functioning:
http://www.nldontheweb.org/nldadvancedreading/nldclinicaldescription.html



I didn't ask about IQ, so I don't see why you're bringing this up.

Also, I question autism being said to involve lower functioning, since there are high funtioning autistics.



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21 Oct 2013, 8:57 pm

Apparently researchers have speculated that NVLD is a mild form of AS, and it seems to generally be discussed in the context of ASD, so it seems likely that NVLD is related to AS/autism, and from what I've (briefly) read about it, it seems very possible that it's a form of ASD neurological disorder.

Also, to be clear, in the new DSM-V there is no technical difference between AS & HFA, it's all just ASD and levels of severity now.



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21 Oct 2013, 9:04 pm

Sethno wrote:
PowderHound wrote:
NVLD can most certainly coincide with high IQ. It just means that one type of a person's IQ is relatively low compared to another, but all areas can still be well above the norm. I found an interesting article here that compares Asperger's to NVLD, and at one point it suggests that Asperger's and NVLD are potentially the same condition while autism is different due to lower functioning:
http://www.nldontheweb.org/nldadvancedreading/nldclinicaldescription.html



I didn't ask about IQ, so I don't see why you're bringing this up.

Also, I question autism being said to involve lower functioning, since there are high funtioning autistics.


IQ is the main part of the diagnostic criteria that separates Asperger's from NVLD, so I answered your question about as clearly as someone could have. I then responded to the previous post that mentioned doctors with misconceptions about how IQ relates to NVLD.

The article I linked to discusses debates about criteria for various conditions, noting that the term "autism" is usually not assigned to people who are high functioning, but rather they are given the diagnosis of "Asperger's" or "ASD--NOS." I'm glad I took the time to try to help you and answer your question. You show your appreciation well.



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21 Oct 2013, 10:10 pm

PowderHound wrote:
NVLD is not technically a form of autism, but the diagnostic criterion are nearly synonymous. A neurologist diagnosed me with NVLD, and a psychologist diagnosed me with Asperger's. I think that NVLD criteria is slightly more objective and concerned with measurable, quantitative traits such as IQ and sensory processing, but it does encompass pretty much everything else that is covered by Asperger's and autism as well. I'm pretty sure that NVLD requires a significant disparity between areas of intelligence, however, which is common in autism but not necessary for a diagnosis (this seems more in line with savant traits). As far as I am concerned, they are pretty much the same thing.


The diagnostic criteria are no where near the same, they focus on different things, is just the symptoms are similar.


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21 Oct 2013, 10:48 pm

Ganondox, if you could provide a link to NVLD diagnostic criteria that differs greatly from Asperger's, I would very much appreciate it. I am not trying to argue with anyone, but nothing I have read can corroborate this. If the diagnostic criterion are drastically different, I would very much like to know--I am an information sponge with these types of things. If anyone, actually, can disprove anything I said, please do so. I am not an authority on the subject and I am after information, not being right. It is my understanding that symptoms are diagnostic criteria, however, and most related Google searches and Wikipedia articles do show drastic similarities between NVLD and Asperger's, with multiple sources claiming that no distinction between the two conditions should be necessary. Wikipedia specifically states this in its article on NVLD:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_learning_disorder

I'm sensing some hostility here, and I'm not looking for an argument. I will only be reading this thread from now on.



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21 Oct 2013, 11:52 pm

The current categories don't describe accurately the existing spectrum, so it's a waste of time and energy to try and answer the question of what is what. Eg: NLDers have serious visual-spatial limitations, which is usually not the case in Asperger's. So by definition you can't have both.


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22 Oct 2013, 12:24 am

Moondust wrote:
The current categories don't describe accurately the existing spectrum, so it's a waste of time and energy to try and answer the question of what is what. Eg: NLDers have serious visual-spatial limitations, which is usually not the case in Asperger's. So by definition you can't have both.


That's not true. Asperger's and NVLD aren't mutually exclusive. ASD doesn't preclude having difficulties with spatial-visual stuff . It''s just like dyslexia can occur with ASD even though reading difficulties aren't part of the definition of ASD. The two conditions are separate but can occur together. ASD and NVLD are separate disorders that have a lot of overlapping symptoms: social impairment, problems w social cues, pragmatic language problems, motor skill impairment, sensory issues ect. NVLD includes spatial-visual impairments and often some related academic problems (in mathematics, for example) which are not part of ASD . ASD includes restrictive ,repetitive behaviours (RRBs) such as stimming, special interests and rigid routines, which are not a part of NVLD. If you have the RRBs AND the spatial-visual imapirment AND the social problems then you might have ASD and NVLD, like me, you see? hehe=)



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22 Oct 2013, 1:10 am

NVLD is not form of autism, according to current research on autism and NVLD.

People with autism can have NVLD IQ profile, but that does not mean that NVLD is form of autism.

Here is recent article that focuses on social communication/pragmatic language issues in NVLD: LINK

There are moar moar moar articles about NVLD in Google Scholar, some open access.


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22 Oct 2013, 9:35 am

PowderHound wrote:
Ganondox, if you could provide a link to NVLD diagnostic criteria that differs greatly from Asperger's, I would very much appreciate it. I am not trying to argue with anyone, but nothing I have read can corroborate this. If the diagnostic criterion are drastically different, I would very much like to know--I am an information sponge with these types of things. If anyone, actually, can disprove anything I said, please do so. I am not an authority on the subject and I am after information, not being right. It is my understanding that symptoms are diagnostic criteria, however, and most related Google searches and Wikipedia articles do show drastic similarities between NVLD and Asperger's, with multiple sources claiming that no distinction between the two conditions should be necessary. Wikipedia specifically states this in its article on NVLD:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_learning_disorder

I'm sensing some hostility here, and I'm not looking for an argument. I will only be reading this thread from now on.


There is absolutely no hostility, though I did jump the gun a bit and didn't properly read your full post, skipping over "I think that NVLD criteria is slightly more objective and concerned with measurable, quantitative traits such as IQ and sensory processing". That's pretty much the difference, NVLD's actual criteria mainly based on that, with only minimum attention to the autistic like symptoms.


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