What other conditions are associated in toe walking in kids?

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Mindsigh
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31 Oct 2012, 11:36 am

I guess I could look it up myself, but as long as I'm here....
Are there other things besides ASDs associated with toe-walking and sensory issues and executive dysfunction and solitariness and stimming?

I had all this stuff going on as a kid but people treated me as if I was misbehaving and scolded and punished me. :cry:


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Marybird
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31 Oct 2012, 12:43 pm

They could be associated with other things but all those things together indicate ASD.

I'm sorry you were scolded and punished as a kid. I was always told there was something wrong with me.



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31 Oct 2012, 1:24 pm

You can have sensory issues alone without an ASD. I also read that people with SPD also tend to stim, same reason why autistic people would stim.

People who are introverted are also alone. You don't need to have an ASD for it. I was actually surprised to read on a forum how introverted people get treated. People treat them like there is something wrong with them so they try and get them to be social and be with people and be outgoing and then they are being bothered with doctors because people think they have some mental disorder or something or think they are depressed. I read an article online from that thread how some parent got rid of her child's cat thinking it will make her go out and be with people rather than preferring her own animal over kids. I honestly think being introverted is a personality trait as I have read online.

I also read that people with ADHD also suffer ED issues as well. I also think NTs have it too because they are also messy.


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btbnnyr
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31 Oct 2012, 1:27 pm

I think that a child must have significant social and/or communication deficits to have ASD. If a child has all those things in the original post, but lacks a high level of social cluelessness and many socially inappropriate or aloof behaviors, then the child does not have ASD.



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31 Oct 2012, 1:30 pm

SPD/ADHD is the other likely reason for that. If you have those, and the sensory and executive dysfunction parts are disabling, but you're missing the rest of autism, then the ADHD and SPD are common comorbids of each other, and both are what some people call "autism cousins", in that they share more traits with the autistic spectrum than the average person.

The set of traits you listed didn't make me think autism, it made me think SPD/ADHD. But you might have just left out all the autism specific parts.



Mindsigh
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31 Oct 2012, 2:15 pm

Well, I did/do have trouble spontaneously conversing with people. It's almost like a short-circuit between thinking and talking--when I actually try to speak, my mind goes blank. If there's a script to follow, I can do it, but not just winging it.


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Marybird
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31 Oct 2012, 3:20 pm

Mindsigh wrote:
Well, I did/do have trouble spontaneously conversing with people. It's almost like a short-circuit between thinking and talking--when I actually try to speak, my mind goes blank. If there's a script to follow, I can do it, but not just winging it.

Do you feel uncomfortable with eye contact? Do you feel Unable to connect with other people or no desire to?



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31 Oct 2012, 3:26 pm

Lots of children that I work with, who all have varying types of learning disabilities, walk or used to walk on their toes. There's quite a few with Downs Syndrome who do.



Mindsigh
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31 Oct 2012, 3:36 pm

Marybird wrote:
Mindsigh wrote:
Well, I did/do have trouble spontaneously conversing with people. It's almost like a short-circuit between thinking and talking--when I actually try to speak, my mind goes blank. If there's a script to follow, I can do it, but not just winging it.

Do you feel uncomfortable with eye contact? Do you feel Unable to connect with other people or no desire to?


Not so much eye contact, but I really don't feel much need to connect with others. They look like they're having so much fun, but when I try it, it's too much like work. I've lived in the same city all my life, but when I have to list references or emergency contacts, I draw a blank. I also see nothing at all wrong with going out alone to a concert or a bar, but I've noticed people looking at me funny, like they're trying to figure out what's wrong with me. I'm not bothered by crowds but I don't like being a part of groups.


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Marybird
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31 Oct 2012, 4:04 pm

I go places by myself too, but I never gave much thought to what others think of that. But I guess it is kind of weird that I'm always alone and other people are in groups. I don't really know what it would be like to have a social network, but I like being by myself. It comes natural to me to be alone.



Last edited by Marybird on 31 Oct 2012, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Callista
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31 Oct 2012, 4:07 pm

Mindsigh wrote:
I guess I could look it up myself, but as long as I'm here....
Are there other things besides ASDs associated with toe-walking and sensory issues and executive dysfunction and solitariness and stimming?


Toe-walking can be:
A normal childhood behavior; a form of play
Associated with cerebral palsy and nerve/muscle disorders, often due to spasticity
Associated with sensory integration dysfunction

Sensory issues:
Are present in their mild, non-pathological form in most people; may increase in intensity with stress
Can be related to sensory processing disorder, either general or specific (for example auditory processing disorder, dyspraxia)
Can be caused by brain injury or dysfunction, including cerebral palsy and fetal alcohol syndrome
Can be caused by neurological disorders
Can be related to migraines
Can be related to low muscle tone (hypotonia)
Has been linked to giftedness, ADHD, developmental delay, and premature birth

Executive dysfunction:
Is found in most schizophrenia cases, and considered a negative (and therefore chronic) symptom
Can be caused by most forms of brain injury, especially to the frontal lobe
Is the defining feature of ADHD
Is found in movement disorders such as Parkinson's
Is found in autism spectrum disorders
Executive functioning is the last part of the brain to develop fully, and may not be mature until the mid-twenties or even older.

A solitary lifestyle:
Is related to introversion and eccentricity
May be forced by social rejection/exclusion
May be caused by inadequate socialization or family problems, especially for children
May be caused by being a member of a minority culture within a majority; for example, an isolated immigrant
May be a lifestyle choice related to prioritizing other activities higher than socializing
May be related to aging and senescence
Is related to many personality disorders, especially schizoid, schizotypal, avoidant, obsessive-compulsive, and paranoid personality disorders
In usually socially involved individuals, is a "red flag" sign of poor coping with a mental or physical illness, or with life stress.

Stimming (repetitive behavior; repetitive movement):
Is a normal activity found in young children, and in a much less dramatic form in all humans
Can be a "bad habit" (nail-biting, for example)
Can be a coping strategy for those in high-stress situations
Is related to executive dysfunction, especially in the form of perseveration (getting "stuck" on one action or activity)
Is common for anyone with sensory integration dysfunction
Is common among those with autism spectrum disorders
May be present in ADHD as "fidgeting"
Is common among those with intellectual disabilities
May be present in Tourette's syndrome in the form of tics; or as less-pervasive tics that aren't severe enough to be called Tourette's
Can be a side-effect of many medications, especially antipsychotics, especially if tardive dyskinesia is involved
Is related to movement disorders in general
Is related to schizophrenia
Can be caused by some recreational drugs, notably methamphetamines


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31 Oct 2012, 9:26 pm

It seems that, other than ASDs, toe-walking is most common in cerebral palsy. Apparently, all toe-walking is either caused by or causes a shortening of the Achilles' tendon. I also recently read that "curly toes" are the result of a shortened Achilles' tendon. I've been toe-walking since I learned how to walk. And I believe that I have "curly toes." Didn't when I was younger! :lol:


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btbnnyr
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31 Oct 2012, 9:27 pm

I am purrrty sure that I did all of my toewalking for fun, as a boredom-related stim. I still do it as a boredom-related stim, in circles around the kitchen island when my lunch is heating in the microwave.



OddDuckNash99
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31 Oct 2012, 9:32 pm

I never read toe-walking was related to sensory issues until a few years ago, but I do think that's why I do it. I like how toe-walking gives a lot of pressure on the toes but zero stimulation on the heel/back part of the foot. When walking "normally," there isn't hardly any pressure on any part of the foot, and what's worse, you have to have MORE of the foot touching the ground. I hate being wet more than anything, and when I have to walk in the rain with wet shoes, if I can't toe-walk, the greater amount of wetness on my foot utterly disgusts me. :x


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1000Knives
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31 Oct 2012, 10:27 pm

OddDuckNash99 wrote:
I never read toe-walking was related to sensory issues until a few years ago, but I do think that's why I do it. I like how toe-walking gives a lot of pressure on the toes but zero stimulation on the heel/back part of the foot. When walking "normally," there isn't hardly any pressure on any part of the foot, and what's worse, you have to have MORE of the foot touching the ground. I hate being wet more than anything, and when I have to walk in the rain with wet shoes, if I can't toe-walk, the greater amount of wetness on my foot utterly disgusts me. :x


Toewalking gets your legs jacked. But unfortunately it also gives you an odd forward balance point that's bad for some athletic things. It was pretty sweet being able to squat 225 my first time walking up to a squat rack, though. I don't know if I "toe walked" as a kid, but I apply a lot of pressure to the balls of my feet and have super strong calf muscles. I maxed out a calf press machine my first time ever walking into a gym.

I dunno, if I can correct my balance issues, I'd be happier, though, it's a hinderance in figure skating as it pulls my balance too far forward. But, at the same time, it's cool, as I correct my balance more, I get to keep the power in the legs I got from toewalking and it's great.



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01 Nov 2012, 12:25 am

btbnnyr wrote:
I think that a child must have significant social and/or communication deficits to have ASD. If a child has all those things in the original post, but lacks a high level of social cluelessness and many socially inappropriate or aloof behaviors, then the child does not have ASD.


What about BAP? She does have two childern with ASDs.

The schizoid ADHD combo (as posted doesn't hold water I think) These folks do not enjoy emotional intimacy and thus are avoidant or better: feel phobic and are smothered by it.

And the literal mindeness is there as from another one of her threads.

BAP baby or more llikely inside the bubble.

Straight to the heart from the eye of my INTJ: as a composite I don't see it cracked up in any another way.