One-step advice on how to fit-in NTs' society. Don't!

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Prefas
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23 Nov 2012, 12:35 pm

Every aspie in the world wants to crack the code of social interaction. Everyone seeks a tip. Everyone gives a tip. Some want to be accepted by NTs, some even want to "look like" NTs! I don't understand. Or maybe I understand but let's start from the beginning.

I live and study in Greece where nobody knows about Asperger except of the members of a couple of small groups and the fans of southpark of course! Since I was a child I was trying to understand others' behavior through logical assumptions and experience-based deductions. Now that I became older I finally understood! There is no way to explain human behavior by logic. End of story! No tips , no method, no code.. Social interactions are the most absurd thing there is.. so no "fit in" there for us my friends.

But as a young man, stubborn and fearless I managed to rationalize some aspects of social life. I managed to fit in and I had all the time to observe, test and understand the others' behavior. Why do they do this, why they do that, when they react this way, who reacts this way, under what conditions.. I will tell you what I finally understood after some parts of the puzzle completed and then it's your choice whether you want to play the game or not. But nobody plays a game if they don't like the rules unless they are unaware of the rules. So I don't understand those who want to fit in (because if you don't know the rules yet believe me you are not going to like them.)

So, above all is PRETENDING. Pretending is the basis of human interaction and relationships. That's NT's way of humor and of dealing with everyday situations. They pretend to like their colleagues, they pretend to like you, their boss or anyone else, but underneath that lies the truth. People use to say that aspies and autistic people tend to see the tree and miss the forest, NTs tend to see the forest and miss the tree, but I tell you, everyone misses what's under the tree. And under the tree there is a very complicated and dirty system of alliances between the members of a group. Pretending is a very useful technique in making alliances. They don't make friends, they make allies. Subsequently you will understand why people need alliances.

Another thing I want you to wonder about is why those people are near you, if there are any. I tell you, everyone close to you except your family is GAINING something from you. Their gain is either material, (maybe you have money, maybe they like the rides with your car, your PlayStation, any material gain) or their gain is more intangible and it's about power ( if your status is high, you sing well, you have a cool music group, you are a good hacker, you have a web-TV show about asperger :D, you are good looking, anything that can be useful to them.. for THEIR status) You may be very clever and you can support them in power issues among the group, whatever..

Do you see how these two are connected? PRETENDING and PERSONAL GAIN? Let me explain, if there is anything that people can gain from you, they'll pretend to like you. That's why there is no pretending for you my "weak" friends and there is a lot of bullying, because they don't gain a lot from you, or they win more than they lose by bullying you. Brain is a powerful weapon that is wired to solve complicated math functions in everyday life and make decisions serving ones' inner desires. Οne of the strongest inner desire of human beings is gain. And pretending is their way of serving this desire. But it is not serving only this desire..

Most males, want power. Power comes from alliances and alliances come from pretending. But why do they want power? Are we watching some kind of action movie or playing some kind of game of thrones? No, it's not a movie, it's what lies beneath the trees and the forest thing. It's real motherfucking life. Power serves THE most strong human instinct and motive there is, REPRODUCTION. So males adjust to how females choose their partner. Dominant females mate with dominant males who have power, which means a lot of allies which they earn by pretending, and with humor, "bribing" etc.
(Though it is possible for a non-dominant male to mate with a dominant, or non-dominant female but this female will cheat or abandon her partner on her first opportunity of mating with a dominant one. If she does not and prefer to stick with her high values of loyalty she's probably an aspie.. :D )

You see most NTs don't realize that they are playing this kind of power game, they are not consciously doing this. Their nature and instincts force them to play this awful and unfair game. The rules stink and it's full of lies, deception techniques and they use to say "that's life". No that's YOUR life motherf***ers, that's YOUR nature. This is obvious because their genes gave them all the skills they need for this kind of social game. But my genes and your genes don't contain any pretending skills, any social skills, any intuitive understanding of the social hierarchy.. It's simple, WE ARE NOT MEANT TO LIVE THIS WAY.

Because the more I look within myself, the more I acknowledge one powerful natural tendency of mine. The tendency towards TRUTH which is the opposite of pretending. You can't go to the opposite direction because at the end nobody can get away from a theorem that implements on him. Apart from this, if you go against your nature that's when the "psychological problems" start to appear.

So instead of struggling to fit in, try to understand that we are meant to define our own rules which are consequent with our nature and not to play someone's else sh***y game whose rules don't satisfy our existence. A friend had a very nice thought about our difference with the NTs. She believes that we are descendants of prehistoric hunters who needed good observation skills, logic and other traits like loyalty useful to the hunting while they were leaving the rest of the group doing their social and hierarchical stuff. So go out "hunting" and meet new situations, new places and don't compare yourself with NTs and how they live their lives.

FOLLOW YOUR OWN PATH. WE ARE FROM THE SAME TRIBE!



Last edited by Prefas on 25 Nov 2012, 5:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

katkall
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23 Nov 2012, 12:51 pm

NT is no better than an Aspie and Aspie is no better than NT. We just work differently. a grandfather clock and wristwatch do not have to explain to each other why they tell time.



Entek
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23 Nov 2012, 1:03 pm

I just wanted to highlight the original point - i too have noticed that people only talk to you if they want something from you.
Ive yet to be proved wrong.



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23 Nov 2012, 1:04 pm

Prefas wrote:
Though it is possible for a non-dominant male to mate with a dominant, or non-dominant female but this female will cheat or abandon her partner on her first opportunity of mating with a dominant one. If she does not and prefer to stick with her high values of loyalty she's probably an aspie..


That is such bollocks!



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23 Nov 2012, 1:08 pm

Quote:
Though it is possible for a non-dominant male to mate with a dominant, or non-dominant female but this female will cheat or abandon her partner on her first opportunity of mating with a dominant one. If she does not and prefer to stick with her high values of loyalty she's probably an aspie..


Looks like you are only seeing the complex differences with NTs and Aspies in black and white.


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23 Nov 2012, 1:11 pm

I want to copy this into my blog and give you the credit. These are not my words, but it certainly is thought provoking and intelligent. It would be interesting to see what kind of people would read it.



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23 Nov 2012, 1:12 pm

I stopped trying to fit in long ago, and I feel much better for it.

When someone challenges me on being different, I point out to them that "Conformity is Death" or "To conform to the norm is to destroy the individual". Most thinking people tend to leave me alone after that.


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23 Nov 2012, 1:29 pm

Exactly my thoughts.

Though I've been wondering about introvert NTs. They tend to get exhausted by social interaction, is their brain lacking desensitization like the autistic brain is, but not as strongly? Or in other words, is Autism only an end in a Neurotype spectrum, and "High Neurotypicality" is the other?



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23 Nov 2012, 2:40 pm

Sidmor wrote:
Exactly my thoughts.

Though I've been wondering about introvert NTs. They tend to get exhausted by social interaction, is their brain lacking desensitization like the autistic brain is, but not as strongly? Or in other words, is Autism only an end in a Neurotype spectrum, and "High Neurotypicality" is the other?


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... and-autism



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23 Nov 2012, 2:46 pm

I don't try to fit in. I am just me.



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23 Nov 2012, 2:51 pm

Sidmor wrote:
Exactly my thoughts.

Though I've been wondering about introvert NTs. They tend to get exhausted by social interaction, is their brain lacking desensitization like the autistic brain is, but not as strongly? Or in other words, is Autism only an end in a Neurotype spectrum, and "High Neurotypicality" is the other?


That would make the autism spectrum part of a global spectrum that might represent all people, and that sounds comfortably plausible to me. I'd also like to add how I believe validation is also a driving force in human relationships. People want the gold medals, to be showered with roses and adored; and if they can acquire it through deception, the rewards remain real nonetheless. I can observe this at work, where even the most idle people spend a lot of time and energy finding ways to relate to their peers.

I myself have occasionally been the target of this seemingly random, desperate need to connect with others; where the subjects discussed can be of the most banal natures. Talking about the weather... It's so cliche but people really do it.. A lot! A pointless conversation, like a ball room dance, where somehow, by participating in the scripted ritual, they have learned something genuine about me, and walked away feeling good that we talked. Makes me wonder how many aspies are sociologists.


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Last edited by Aharon on 23 Nov 2012, 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Nov 2012, 3:10 pm

The whole fake-it-or-not dilemma is ridiculous to me. We were born the way we were and we would be appalled if someone told us that Jews should hide it and just pretend to be gentiles or that African-Americans should act like white people. Yet we tend to believe that autistics need to pretend to be neurotypical and that they should take social kills training to learn how to do it. I find that offensive.

I think that if we think we need to learn some social skills for career advancement or to get through a date, then fine. That's up to the individual, but social skills training is not necessary or desirable for everyone.


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Last edited by dyingofpoetry on 23 Nov 2012, 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Nov 2012, 3:17 pm

Aharon wrote:
Sidmor wrote:
Exactly my thoughts.

Though I've been wondering about introvert NTs. They tend to get exhausted by social interaction, is their brain lacking desensitization like the autistic brain is, but not as strongly? Or in other words, is Autism only an end in a Neurotype spectrum, and "High Neurotypicality" is the other?


That would make the autism spectrum part of a global spectrum that might represent all people, and that sounds comfortably plausible to me. I'd also like to add how I believe validation is also a driving force in human relationships. People want the gold medals, to be showered with roses and adored; and if they can acquire it through deception, the rewards remain real nonetheless. I can observe this at work, where even the most idilic people spend a lot of time and energy finding ways to relate to their peers.

I myself have occasionally been the target of this seemingly random, desperate need to connect with others; where the subjects discussed can be of the most banal natures. Talking about the weather... It's so cliche but people really do it.. A lot! A pointless conversation, like a ball room dance, where somehow, by participating in the scripted ritual, they have learned something genuine about me, and walked away feeling good that we talked. Makes me wonder how many aspies are sociologists.


Idle, you mean, not idyllic?



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23 Nov 2012, 3:28 pm

Yes exactly that, thank you. I shall edit!


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23 Nov 2012, 3:37 pm

Prefas wrote:
Every aspie in the world wants to crack the code of social interaction. Everyone seeks a tip. Everyone gives a tip. Some want to be accepted by NTs, some even want to "look like" NTs! I don't understand. Or maybe I understand but let's start from the beginning.

I live and study in Greece where nobody knows about Asperger except of the members of a couple of small groups and the fans of southpark of course! Since I was a child I was trying to understand others' behavior through logical assumptions and experience-based deductions. Now that I became older I finally understood! There is no way to explain human behavior by logic. End of story! No tips , no method, no code.. Social interactions are the most absurd thing there is.. so no "fit in" there for us my friends.

But as a young man, stubborn and fearless I managed to rationalize some aspects of social life. I managed to fit in and I had all the time to observe, test and understand the others' behavior. Why do they do this, why they do that, when they react this way, who reacts this way, under what conditions.. I will tell you what I finally understood after some parts of the puzzle completed and then it's your choice whether you want to play the game or not. But nobody plays a game if they don't like the rules unless they are unaware of the rules. So I don't understand those who want to fit in (because if you don't know the rules yet believe me you are not going to like them.)

So, above all is PRETENDING. Pretending is the basis of human interaction and relationships. That's NT's way of humor and of dealing with everyday situations. They pretend to like their colleagues, they pretend to like you, their boss or anyone else, but underneath that lies the truth. People use to say that aspies and autistic people tend to see the tree and miss the forest, NTs tend to see the forest and miss the tree, but I tell you, everyone misses what's under the tree. And under the tree there is a very complicated and dirty system of alliances between the members of a group. Pretending is a very useful technique in making alliances. They don't make friends, they make allies. Subsequently you will understand why people need alliances.

Another thing I want you to wonder about is why those people are near you, if there are any. I tell you, everyone close to you except your family is GAINING something from you. Their gain is either material, (maybe you have money, maybe they like the rides with your car, your PlayStation, any material gain) or their gain is more intangible and it's about power ( if your status is high, you sing well, you have a cool music group, you are a good hacker, you have a web-TV show about asperger :D, you are good looking, anything that can be useful to them.. for THEIR status) You may be very clever and you can support them in power issues among the group, whatever..

Do you see how these two are connected? PRETENDING and PERSONAL GAIN? Let me explain, if there is anything that people can gain from you, they'll pretend to like you. That's why there is no pretending for you my "weak" friends and there is a lot of bullying, because they don't gain a lot from you, or they win more than they lose by bullying you. Brain is a powerful weapon that is wired to solve complicated math functions in everyday life and make decisions serving ones' inner desires. Οne of the strongest inner desire of human beings is gain. And pretending is their way of serving this desire. But it is not serving only this desire..

Most males, want power. Power comes from alliances and alliances come from pretending. But why do they want power? Are we watching some kind of action movie or playing some kind of game of thrones? No, it's not a movie, it's what lies beneath the trees and the forest thing. It's real f**** life. Power serves THE most strong human instinct and motive there is, REPRODUCTION. So males adjust to how females choose their partner. Dominant females mate with dominant males who have power, which means a lot of allies which they earn by pretending, and with humor, "bribing" etc. Though it is possible for a non-dominant male to mate with a dominant, or non-dominant female but this female will cheat or abandon her partner on her first opportunity of mating with a dominant one. If she does not and prefer to stick with her high values of loyalty she's probably an aspie..

You see most NTs don't realize that they are playing this kind of power game, they are not consciously doing this. Their nature and instincts force them to play this awful and unfair game. The rules stink and it's full of lies, deception techniques and they use to say "that's life". No that's YOUR life f****, that's YOUR nature. This is obvious because their genes gave them all the skills they need for this kind of social game. But my genes and your genes don't contain any pretending skills, any social skills, any intuitive understanding of the social hierarchy.. It's simple, WE ARE NOT MEANT TO LIVE THIS WAY.

Because the more I look within myself, the more I acknowledge one powerful natural tendency of mine. The tendency towards TRUTH which is the opposite of pretending. You can't go to the opposite direction because at the end nobody can get away from a theorem that implements on him. Apart from this, if you go against your nature that's when the "psychological problems" start to appear.

So instead of struggling to fit in, try to understand that we are meant to define our own rules which are consequent with our nature and not to play someone's else sh***y game whose rules don't satisfy our existence. A friend had a very nice thought about our difference with the NTs. She believes that we are descendants of prehistoric hunters who needed good observation skills, logic and other traits like loyalty useful to the hunting while they were leaving the rest of the group doing their social and hierarchical stuff. So go out "hunting" and meet new situations, new places and don't compare yourself with NTs and how they live their lives.

FOLLOW YOUR OWN PATH. WE ARE FROM THE SAME TRIBE!


honestly i definately remember in primary school i had really strong ambition to be clever ie get the best/high marks on the tests and i remember when in year 8 when everyone would talk about their weight how much they weighed (and the general never explicitly worded idea was that if you weighed more then a fight would be lopsided against you (a bit how real boxing division works thinking about it lol). i also had one time where i really felt too skinny and at age 14 or something like my body was just too lanky thin and 'weak'. also i can't really remember this memories because i think they were painfull but i remember being super anxious in my own room and i think it must have been to do with thinking about what group i was in or how much other people were going get off with the opposite sex and not me. i definately cannot remember the situation or what i was feeling or the other person etc but i must have been about 5 and i just have the memory of snapping this guy's special add on for his bike a batman clip on mirror :? (just realised the twisted evil and mad evil emoticons probably represent a far more bad reality than i'm aware of and perhaps shouldn't even be on wrong planet. i don't think they're all pretending... i think they don't know any better - they feel too stressed to even consider not acting in a way that doesn't result in personal gain even if it's fake or whatever. only the result counts.

i just like to think even it's the largest - brain type that doesn't mean that they could all be having a brain that is far less enjoyable just generally worse than the other brain types. this is a new thing but i the brain is plastic and it's scientifically possible to change your brain it definately is not all genetic. genes create synapses but if the sensory input doesn't go into those synapses they don't get activated. also from reading field guide to earthlings i'm getting the general impression it's not so much they're so subtle but intelligence is a human thing and it varies just like strength and a lot of people simply to do not have that strength (to any NTs if you're offended by that because every aspect of your life is more offensive) - the reason why i think they may cognitively be of a discrete type of brain that literally could be named 'stupid' is that they think in words and never meaning the signifiers become meanings all on their own. idk i'm still reading the book and it's quite hard to understand but when i do finally get it i'm like wow that's stupid... f**k - that's a stupid way of thinking/living! if normal = average and average is always below the above average then average is not good = normal is not good and is unhealthy.



Prefas
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23 Nov 2012, 3:38 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Quote:
Though it is possible for a non-dominant male to mate with a dominant, or non-dominant female but this female will cheat or abandon her partner on her first opportunity of mating with a dominant one. If she does not and prefer to stick with her high values of loyalty she's probably an aspie..


Looks like you are only seeing the complex differences with NTs and Aspies in black and white.

I was sort of exaggerating on this one for humor I will edit

aspiemike wrote:
I want to copy this into my blog and give you the credit. These are not my words, but it certainly is thought provoking and intelligent. It would be interesting to see what kind of people would read it.

you can do it my friend. Share with us your conclusions!



Last edited by Prefas on 23 Nov 2012, 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.