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FireBird
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19 Jan 2013, 1:12 pm

I have been depressed on and off for most of my life. To be honest I call it realism because since I see things from the actual point of view, it is very depressing and negative.



Raziel
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19 Jan 2013, 1:27 pm

FireBird wrote:
To be honest I call it realism because since I see things from the actual point of view, it is very depressing and negative.


I don't see it that way, because depression is very crippling and doesn't just has to do with how you see the world, there is so much more to it.
I think the fiew is way too negative. Well I also know hypomania and this is "too much".
There is nothing wrong on being "too serious", but depression is just not healthy.


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scarp
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19 Jan 2013, 1:49 pm

PTSmorrow wrote:
Furthermore, feeling depressed is not the same as suffering from depression. The fact that you're feeling great as long as you're busy contradicts the idea of a depression because in that case you would feel depressed all the time.


This is not true. Depression comes in waves and episodes for most people. Yes, there is a difference between feeling sad sometimes and being clinically depressed, but the distinction lies in the frequency, intensity and duration of depressive episodes, not on whether or not you feel sad all the time.



Raziel
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19 Jan 2013, 2:01 pm

scarp wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:
Furthermore, feeling depressed is not the same as suffering from depression. The fact that you're feeling great as long as you're busy contradicts the idea of a depression because in that case you would feel depressed all the time.


This is not true. Depression comes in waves and episodes for most people. Yes, there is a difference between feeling sad sometimes and being clinically depressed, but the distinction lies in the frequency, intensity and duration of depressive episodes, not on whether or not you feel sad all the time.


I agree.
Depression doesn't mean that you have to feel this way 24/7, but most of the time.
Furthermore autistics very often have longlasting depressions that are hard to treat, but who are atypical (not typical).


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19 Jan 2013, 3:51 pm

d057 wrote:
I think many people with Asperger's have the tendency to suffer with depression. It doesn't matter whether or not they are legitimately diagnosed with depression. Along with depression, I am diagnosed with social anxiety. Aspies also deal with social anxiety whether or not they are legitimately diagnosed with it.


Yes I was actually officially diagnosed with social anxiety and all my life I did not realize I was neurologically different and just considered myself painfully shy. Now it all makes more sense after going through neuropsychological testing and reading about my condition online. The social anxiety makes more sense now since it goes along with the neurological differences in NLVD and I may possibly have ASD. I have not been officially diagnosed with depression, but I would not be surprised if I did receive this diagnosis. When I have taken quizzes or questionnaire regarding depression, I usually have it. I am actually good at pulling myself through and functioning fairly well and I have thought I was "normal" and just shy so I did not even realize what was wrong. Now that I know why I am different it has been a relief yet it seems more difficult in some ways.


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jamgrrl
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19 Jan 2013, 5:19 pm

PTSmorrow wrote:

If a person doesn't think along those lines, CBT is useless. I've never felt depressed due to thoughts about being liked etc. but about facts like cruelty to animals, loss of a beloved animal through dead, overpopulation, environmental destruction, condition of rainforests etc.

I think if a person is really realistic he can't avoid feeling depressed about the state of affairs. Anything else would mean to suppress reality in favor of delusion.


It's true CBT doesn't work for every type of depression. First of all a reasonable amount has a place - in grieving a loss, for instance.

In your case, CBT would be applied as follows: I cannot control the actions of others, and cruelty exists the world over. I can't do much about it. Feeling depressed about it does less to help change the world than feeling motivated. I can do small things to help end cruelty in my small corner of the world.



PTSmorrow
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21 Jan 2013, 10:40 am

jamgrrl wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:

If a person doesn't think along those lines, CBT is useless. I've never felt depressed due to thoughts about being liked etc. but about facts like cruelty to animals, loss of a beloved animal through dead, overpopulation, environmental destruction, condition of rainforests etc.

I think if a person is really realistic he can't avoid feeling depressed about the state of affairs. Anything else would mean to suppress reality in favor of delusion.


It's true CBT doesn't work for every type of depression. First of all a reasonable amount has a place - in grieving a loss, for instance.

In your case, CBT would be applied as follows: I cannot control the actions of others, and cruelty exists the world over. I can't do much about it. Feeling depressed about it does less to help change the world than feeling motivated. I can do small things to help end cruelty in my small corner of the world.


You're more familiar with that stuff than the therapist who told me it wouldn't work for me because dysthymic disorder is different from major depression.
That's an amazing chain of thought. Thanks!



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21 Jan 2013, 10:49 am

scarp wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:
Furthermore, feeling depressed is not the same as suffering from depression. The fact that you're feeling great as long as you're busy contradicts the idea of a depression because in that case you would feel depressed all the time.


This is not true. Depression comes in waves and episodes for most people. Yes, there is a difference between feeling sad sometimes and being clinically depressed, but the distinction lies in the frequency, intensity and duration of depressive episodes, not on whether or not you feel sad all the time.


The OP wrote
Quote:
When I'm doing something I'm fine, but when I'm a alone, by myself I'm feel myself sinking deeper and deeper,


For a depressed person there's nothing that makes them feel fine or better, even things they may have enjoyed throughout their lives, like hobbies, are no longer attractive.

Quote:
A person who suffers from a major depressive disorder (sometimes also referred to as clinical depression or simply depression) must either have a depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities consistently for at least a 2 week period. This mood must represent a change from the person's normal mood. Social, occupational, educational or other important functioning must also be negatively impaired by the change in mood.


http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx22.htm



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21 Jan 2013, 2:07 pm

I have suffered from occasional depressions since I was in my early twenties, which is a long time since I am 46 now.
Being depressed is a serious disease that can be hard to cope with and you never get used to it. It's far more serious and crippling than the aspergers itself but that is my opinion.

My depressions are not as severe as they used to be but I still get them. When you have tried everything and nothing else helps it can be wise to take medication, but be beware of over- medication which can easily occur if you have asperges. People with aspergers tend to be more senisitive to all kinds of medication than NT's. Talking about the way you feel can also help. If you have a severe depression that lasts for quite some time you should try and do something about it in a constructive way which can be easier said than done sometimes. Suffering in silence for a prolonged period of time doesn't help.



chlov
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21 Jan 2013, 2:18 pm

PTSmorrow wrote:
The OP wrote
Quote:
When I'm doing something I'm fine, but when I'm a alone, by myself I'm feel myself sinking deeper and deeper,


For a depressed person there's nothing that makes them feel fine or better, even things they may have enjoyed throughout their lives, like hobbies, are no longer attractive.

Quote:
A person who suffers from a major depressive disorder (sometimes also referred to as clinical depression or simply depression) must either have a depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities consistently for at least a 2 week period. This mood must represent a change from the person's normal mood. Social, occupational, educational or other important functioning must also be negatively impaired by the change in mood.


http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx22.htm

According to what people with depression I've met said, depression is:
feeling like you're dead inside
feeling like you have no motivation to do anything
neither having the will to eat, think, or just live
having no interest in anything.



pokerface
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21 Jan 2013, 2:33 pm

chlov wrote:
PTSmorrow wrote:
The OP wrote
Quote:
When I'm doing something I'm fine, but when I'm a alone, by myself I'm feel myself sinking deeper and deeper,


For a depressed person there's nothing that makes them feel fine or better, even things they may have enjoyed throughout their lives, like hobbies, are no longer attractive.

Quote:
A person who suffers from a major depressive disorder (sometimes also referred to as clinical depression or simply depression) must either have a depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities consistently for at least a 2 week period. This mood must represent a change from the person's normal mood. Social, occupational, educational or other important functioning must also be negatively impaired by the change in mood.


http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx22.htm

According to what people with depression I've met said, depression is:
feeling like you're dead inside
feeling like you have no motivation to do anything
neither having the will to eat, think, or just live
having no interest in anything.


There are some general symptoms of depression but I think that depression can show itself in all kinds of different ways because of the simple fact that people differ from each other.

An example of this: some people loose all appetite while others tend to overeat.



jamgrrl
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21 Jan 2013, 3:16 pm

PTSmorrow wrote:
You're more familiar with that stuff than the therapist who told me it wouldn't work for me because dysthymic disorder is different from major depression.
That's an amazing chain of thought. Thanks!


I'm glad I could be of help. Therapists come from all different backgrounds, so it's important to find one that fits.

And it is true that sometimes depression is purely chemical. Or some mix of chemical and thoughts or real events where the chemicals are fighting against your efforts instead of helping. The idea behind CBT is your thoughts are easier to control that your emotions (and safer than meds). Used along with meds is good, too.

90% of the time I'm depressed, it's for a reason - either I'm thinking about things in a harmful, unrealistic way, or there's some root problem in my life that I need to solve (sometimes I don't even know what it is until I force myself to think about it). Then there's that 10% of the time when I'm just glum for no reason. Nothing to do but ride it out. But people are different and mileage may vary. :)

Anxiety on the other hand.. yeah, CBT has helped make me functional, but my fears are still pretty overwhelming sometimes, and CBT has its limits. Now that I'm looking into Aspergers, it's making more sense that I'm just wired this way.



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21 Jan 2013, 7:34 pm

In my opinion, the depression that can accompany Aspergers is often due to having a low social status which leads to both a lack of positive social feedback and actively negative social feedback, which sends your mood down. NTs on average get far more positive social feedback and more frequently than a lot of us as they communicate and socialise more regularly and get more acceptance from the group as they are generally acting 'normally'/in an NT manner. This is part of why they do it - to stave off depression - it's a protective mechanism.

Take any NT and put them in our situation and they'd get depressed themselves pretty quickly - I'd put money on it! Hence the depression is just a logical reaction to our environment.



jamgrrl
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21 Jan 2013, 7:43 pm

That is a really great point.

For whatever reason, I'm always noticing people's negative reactions to me, and I never notice their positive reactions. Or I discount their positive reactions as just being polite or otherwise fake. So no matter what happens, I feel people don't like me, when in fact they usually do. I made this realization last summer and it's made a huge difference in how good I feel when interacting with others. I have to consciously notice positive indicators (like a smile or praise or even just the fact that they're still talking to me when they have the choice to move on) and remind myself it means they're responding well and that I am allowed to feel good about that.

I think part of this is defense mechanism from years of being mistreated by peers as a child.. so I'm always mistrustful of people's true motives. The rest is probably some angle of Aspergers and how I interpret social cues. At some point I must have taught myself how to pick up negative cues (to warn me of danger probably) and never taught myself the positive.



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22 Jan 2013, 9:35 am

jamgrrl wrote:
That is a really great point.

For whatever reason, I'm always noticing people's negative reactions to me, and I never notice their positive reactions. Or I discount their positive reactions as just being polite or otherwise fake. So no matter what happens, I feel people don't like me, when in fact they usually do. I made this realization last summer and it's made a huge difference in how good I feel when interacting with others. I have to consciously notice positive indicators (like a smile or praise or even just the fact that they're still talking to me when they have the choice to move on) and remind myself it means they're responding well and that I am allowed to feel good about that.

I think part of this is defense mechanism from years of being mistreated by peers as a child.. so I'm always mistrustful of people's true motives. The rest is probably some angle of Aspergers and how I interpret social cues. At some point I must have taught myself how to pick up negative cues (to warn me of danger probably) and never taught myself the positive.


I'm the same. I discount positive interactions and focus on the negative ones. I have also thought it's been a way of training myself to improve my social interaction skills ie if I was complacent and just said 'Look - someone reacted well to me I must be fine', instead of focusing on the negative reaction and saying, 'Someone reacted negatively towards me - why did they do that? - what do I need to do to prevent it happening again?', I wouldn't have made any progress. But my system does not work when the person is acting negatively for reasons I can't change or just to be nasty, so it causes me depression. I also think I don't rate the positive interactions that much because at heart I know they have only been brought about by the other person just being a generally friendly type who is nice to everyone or because they feel sorry for me or because they want something from me - (like sex) - always some other reason than just me being a valid and worthwhile person ie I myself don't see me as valid so good interactions just don't 'count' for me as I am not taking them that seriously. I feel a positive reaction in my brain from positive social feedback but it isn't enough to make me want to keep seeking out more social interaction as the negative reactions often outweigh the positive ones or the positive ones aren't giving my brain a big enough boost of happiness as I suspect they do in NTs.



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22 Jan 2013, 3:44 pm

nessa238 wrote:
I'm the same. I discount positive interactions and focus on the negative ones. I have also thought it's been a way of training myself to improve my social interaction skills ie if I was complacent and just said 'Look - someone reacted well to me I must be fine', instead of focusing on the negative reaction and saying, 'Someone reacted negatively towards me - why did they do that? - what do I need to do to prevent it happening again?', I wouldn't have made any progress. But my system does not work when the person is acting negatively for reasons I can't change or just to be nasty, so it causes me depression. I also think I don't rate the positive interactions that much because at heart I know they have only been brought about by the other person just being a generally friendly type who is nice to everyone or because they feel sorry for me or because they want something from me - (like sex) - always some other reason than just me being a valid and worthwhile person ie I myself don't see me as valid so good interactions just don't 'count' for me as I am not taking them that seriously. I feel a positive reaction in my brain from positive social feedback but it isn't enough to make me want to keep seeking out more social interaction as the negative reactions often outweigh the positive ones or the positive ones aren't giving my brain a big enough boost of happiness as I suspect they do in NTs.


Well chances are you *are* a valid and worthwhile person. :)

In my case, I've thrown out most of my negative feelings about myself as a person, using CBT methods. So 15 years ago, I'd be at a party, hiding in the back with no one noticing me, and I just said something stupid to someone, and I'm thinking, "I hate myself, I hate myself", and feeling tons of anxiety. That's where I used CBT to change that thinking, which reduced the anxiety and depression quite a bit. So when I'm interacting with people, I actually think I'm valuable person, but I don't realize they see it too.

The reality is, they do see it too. If I consciously review an interaction looking for the positives, my proof is right there. 1. They agreed to hang out with me. 2. They smiled a lot. 3. The conversation went on for two hours. No one was forcing them to be with me. They could have left. Ergo: 4. Even though there were three awkward silences and a couple of frowns, the total of their experience with me was positive, therefore they like me and enjoyed being around me. And I'm allowed to feel good about that.

It's an easier time when I have already come around to liking *myself*. Which itself was a high mountain to climb, but totally worth it.

The thing is, while some people are friendly types who are "just being polite", I'm trying to realize that NTs aren't like me at all. Most of those friendly types are getting something out of being friendly. They are getting enjoyment. They are happy to be like that. Most people, if they are talking to you at all (of their own free will) are doing so because they want to. I am an interesting person with interesting things to say, and I tend to surround myself with people who have similar interests (i.e. geeks), so of course they would enjoy talking to me.

That's the logic anyway. :) Now I'm working to make that real in an emotional sense. Chances are YOU are also interesting, and there are a lot of people out there who do enjoy talking to you.