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Dan_Vincze
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22 Mar 2013, 3:28 am

tchek wrote:
Does Hate crime law protect people with asperger?

Depends on the jurisdiction, but in the UK where this occurred, the sentencing court is to consider whether the crime was motivated, inter alia, (i) by hostility towards persons who are of a particular sexual orientation, or
(ii) by hostility towards persons who have a disability or a particular disability. (See Wikipedia).
Also, the article wasn't too clear, but I got the impression the defendant may have plea bargained down to manslaughter.



nessa238
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22 Mar 2013, 3:32 am

Dan_Vincze wrote:
tchek wrote:
Does Hate crime law protect people with asperger?

Depends on the jurisdiction, but in the UK where this occurred, the sentencing court is to consider whether the crime was motivated, inter alia, (i) by hostility towards persons who are of a particular sexual orientation, or
(ii) by hostility towards persons who have a disability or a particular disability. (See Wikipedia).
Also, the article wasn't too clear, but I got the impression the defendant may have plea bargained down to manslaughter.


It's based on intent as well

He was able to say he had no intent to kill when he put the flame to him but after causing harm he had a duty to try and prevent it or it could then be classed as intent

It says he tried to help then ran away

This probable lie is what got him off murder I suspect

The defence summing him up as a 'pleasant young man' is sickening - if that's pleasant count me out of this world!

"Andrew Smith, defending, said: “It was the result of a criminally stupid prank that went wrong in a bad way.”

He said: “He is a pleasant young man with no edge to his character, hard-working and has a degree of intelligence.

"He has been deeply and significantly affected by what he has done and the tragic consequences that ensued from it.”

A pal described Steven as “a very nice lad who wouldn’t hurt a fly.”

Sheard, of Cudworth, near Barnsley, initially tried to blame Steven for setting himself on fire.

He was jailed for three-and-a-half years after he admitted manslaughter."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jo ... ng-1777616

These cases make me want vengeance! :evil:



nessa238
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22 Mar 2013, 3:41 am

another_1 wrote:
BuyerBeware wrote:
It is a hate crime. It is a homophobic crime. It is an ableist crime.

<snip>

Stay home. Stay down. Stay quiet. Stay safe.


No. NO. H311 NO!

That approach *may* help you, personally, but it has NEVER helped a "people". Didn't help Jews against Romans - or Nazis. Didn't help Native Americans against White incursion. Didn't help Indians against British colonizers. Didn't help blacks in the American South. Didn't help gays against bigots.

No. NO. H311 NO!

The only thing this approach assures is that, when someone desecrates you in a horrible fashion, nobody else will say anything.

No. NO. H311 NO!

Get OUT! Stand UP! Be LOUD!


I disagree totally in the case of Asperger's Syndrome

We are invariably isolated for the very fact that we aren't good at making social connections!

We don't have 'a people' nine times out of ten - it's just us on our own a lot of the time and that makes anyone far too vulnerable to stand up to the mob!

I don't see the gay community rallying round 'one of their own' either - funny that!



nessa238
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22 Mar 2013, 4:01 am

Here's another crime that was effectively murder but not charged as such:-

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pe ... ox-1777555

And the judge's assessment seems to totally contradict the sentence given to Steven Simpson's killer:-

"A pathologist ruled Mr Dean, from Huyton, Merseyside, had died from a colonic condition and the pensioner’s death could not be directly attributed to the assault.

Judge Dennis Watson told stony-faced Spencer she would have been charged with murder and faced a minimum jail sentence of 30 years if any of her actions could have been proven to have caused the 96-year-old’s death.

The defendant admitted causing grievous bodily harm with intent at Liverpool crown court and was jailed for nine years."

The law in the UK is just plain WRONG!

There's no consistency whatsoever!



whirlingmind
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22 Mar 2013, 6:09 am

nessa238 wrote:
It says he tried to help then ran away

This probable lie is what got him off murder I suspect

He said: “He is a pleasant young man with no edge to his character, hard-working and has a degree of intelligence.

"He has been deeply and significantly affected by what he has done and the tragic consequences that ensued from it.”

A pal described Steven as “a very nice lad who wouldn’t hurt a fly.”

Sheard, of Cudworth, near Barnsley, initially tried to blame Steven for setting himself on fire.

He was jailed for three-and-a-half years after he admitted manslaughter."


Surely unless there is proof he tried to help then it's either hearsay or his own word trying to avoid retribution? I thought it had to be about facts?

"a degree of intelligence" yeah, clearly enough to talk his way out of the repercussions of murder!

"Who wouldn't hurt a fly"! of course - it's his friend, he's hardly likely to get him in trouble!

Bet he was overjoyed to be able to admit manslaughter eh, when he'd have been looking at a lot longer for murder.

I still don't get how such a paltry sentence is anywhere near enough even for manslaughter though. The justice system in the UK is a joke.


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nessa238
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22 Mar 2013, 6:18 am

whirlingmind wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
It says he tried to help then ran away

This probable lie is what got him off murder I suspect

He said: “He is a pleasant young man with no edge to his character, hard-working and has a degree of intelligence.

"He has been deeply and significantly affected by what he has done and the tragic consequences that ensued from it.”

A pal described Steven as “a very nice lad who wouldn’t hurt a fly.”

Sheard, of Cudworth, near Barnsley, initially tried to blame Steven for setting himself on fire.

He was jailed for three-and-a-half years after he admitted manslaughter."


Surely unless there is proof he tried to help then it's either hearsay or his own word trying to avoid retribution? I thought it had to be about facts?

"a degree of intelligence" yeah, clearly enough to talk his way out of the repercussions of murder!

"Who wouldn't hurt a fly"! of course - it's his friend, he's hardly likely to get him in trouble!

Bet he was overjoyed to be able to admit manslaughter eh, when he'd have been looking at a lot longer for murder.

I still don't get how such a paltry sentence is anywhere near enough even for manslaughter though. The justice system in the UK is a joke.


Yes I'd say Jordan Sheard definitely lied about trying to help Steven - he lied in his initial statement to the police, saying Steven had set fire to himself, which does not indicate to me that he tried to help him

He almost certainly lied about trying to help him as well - backed up no doubt by others there who were also as guilty as sin of doing nothing!

the 'wouldn't hurt a fly' line is about Steven himself - the quotes are confusing

Make no mistake - society exists for the benefit of the so-called 'normal' people like Jordan Sheard and goes out of it's way to protect them, to the extent of Judges excusing utterly barbaric behaviour as 'good-natured horseplay'

Normals will always find excuses for each others' behaviour and defend their own

Notice that Jordan Sheard hasn't even been assessed as having any form of mental illness either, when his behaviour looks like classic psychopathy to me! They need to look into his background - he evidently likes setting fire to things!

Can you imagine if a person with Asperger's had done the same to an NT?

We'd all seen as be spawn of the devil on the back of it!

All the other 'pleasant' NTs are completely untarnished by this murder though

People need to wake up and realise how the whole system, including the law, is inherently biased against us!

If there was any justice in this world there'd be a posse of aspies waiting for Jordan Sheard when he leaves jail after serving half his derisory sentence, to give him some real justice!

I'd do it willingly!

I'd probably be out of prison within a year!



Chloe33
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26 Mar 2013, 7:22 am

That is most definitely a hate crime and those involved should have been charged with murder and not just a slap on the wrist 3 years is not sh*t for murder??! ! That kind of a justice system do they have over there sounds as bad as ours

It was obviously a hate crime against gay people. Does England not have laws against these things?



nessa238
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26 Mar 2013, 9:10 am

Chloe33 wrote:
That is most definitely a hate crime and those involved should have been charged with murder and not just a slap on the wrist 3 years is not sh*t for murder??! ! That kind of a justice system do they have over there sounds as bad as ours

It was obviously a hate crime against gay people. Does England not have laws against these things?


We have the concept of hate crime but it doesn't get applied very often.



Chloe33
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26 Mar 2013, 9:43 am

nessa238 wrote:
Chloe33 wrote:
That is most definitely a hate crime and those involved should have been charged with murder and not just a slap on the wrist 3 years is not sh*t for murder??! ! That kind of a justice system do they have over there sounds as bad as ours

It was obviously a hate crime against gay people. Does England not have laws against these things?


We have the concept of hate crime but it doesn't get applied very often.


It should have been applied they were blatant against the victim being gay =(



nessa238
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26 Mar 2013, 11:00 am

Chloe33 wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Chloe33 wrote:
That is most definitely a hate crime and those involved should have been charged with murder and not just a slap on the wrist 3 years is not sh*t for murder??! ! That kind of a justice system do they have over there sounds as bad as ours

It was obviously a hate crime against gay people. Does England not have laws against these things?


We have the concept of hate crime but it doesn't get applied very often.


It should have been applied they were blatant against the victim being gay =(


I know; I think his having Aspergers played a part in why he was treated so badly as well

In this country they're very focused on racism but far less so on other forms of discrimination

If he'd been black the perpetrator's feet wouldn't have touched the ground - everyone in the room would have been on a murder charge probably! :roll: