Aspie Entitlement Syndrome
Verdandi
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What they pay for.
Sure. Why not? I don't believe people should be part of a society but exempt from providing support for that society, if they are able. Taxation is one of those avenues of support.
Or do you think that parks, roads, public transportation, and other infrastructure just magically maintain themselves?
The only way you can have a sociaist system with comprehensive benefits is if you have a strong central government in place that is able to minimize the number of leachers on the system. That is not really compatible with true democracy. So you have Finland with a socialist system and a decent economy that pays for itself. Why? Because the proper incentives are in place to ensure that the maximum number of people are contributors and the minimum number of people are leachers. Most Western countries would scream and whine about the lack of civil liberties needed to create that situation, however.
There's an old saying: you can't have your cake and eat it too. Every economic system comes with tradeoffs. For extreme liberty and democracy, you must have a small welfare state; even the U.S.'s is too big for a system with the amount of personal liberty the U.S. has, which is why we are faced with bankruptcy. For a large welfare state, you have to have adequate controls in place to limit leachers. I am in favor of the latter type of system but can also see the logic of a libertarian capitalist state. What I really hate are people who want both their freedom AND their free stuff. You CAN'T have both. No way.
You can't say "don't you dare tell me to change to make myself more employable" AND "give me my free stuff; I'm entitled; society should support the 'disabled' blah blah blah." That's not a sustainable system. A system that provides good benefits HAS to be able to control its citizens lives to minimize freeloaders, and that probably means telling most aspies to get off their asses, fix their bad behaviors, and get to work. And probably telling people with bad values or genetics either not to have or raise children.
I'm by far not your biggest fan, but sometimes you write a lot of sense. This is one of those.
It's one thing that really annoys me in UK politics at the moment, the same people demanding welfare and strong state intervention to help the poor, the environment etc, but who are also totally anti-authoritarian and fanatical / paranoid about civil liberties.
Verdandi
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You are unbelievably ignorant on this topic. I'm not even going to pretend to discuss this with you at this point. It seems like you got your economic and social theories from a copy of Atlas Shrugged you found in a Cracker Jack box.
I like how you establish that an institutional problem exists in the United States - that there is a lack of support, resources, incentives, etc - then blame the people who access the resources that are available for being to flawed to want to improve. Essentially, you're blaming the people who are at the mercy of the system for the state of the system. And you're not even correct about the state of the system, or why it is the way it is. It has nothing to do with American individuality, but with a certain level toxicity in the politics of one of the major parties.
The US did have a somewhat functioning welfare system, but it's been systematically gutted over the decades because of overly entitled types who believe they should have access to all of the benefits of being a part of society, but without any of the costs necessary to support it.
Why don't you go back to arguing that child abuse is a cure for autism?
Verdandi
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Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
It's one thing that really annoys me in UK politics at the moment, the same people demanding welfare and strong state intervention to help the poor, the environment etc, but who are also totally anti-authoritarian and fanatical / paranoid about civil liberties.
Not true according to what I've read, but I understand that the UK conservatives are just as prone to straw men and other fallacies as those in the US. The Daily Fail is not exactly an unbiased source of news.
I actually agree with the OP. I am not sure why it struck a nerve with lot of posters. Either because they are guilty or misunderstood and if the post doesn't describe you, then obviously he wasn't talked about you so I still don't understand why people are taking offense. I have been on benefits and I am not even a least bit offended. I have worked hard to not rely on Social Security but then felt punished for it and can understand now why some people would prefer to stay on it. The system is broken and they need to be on it to survive. Even NTs are forced to rely on it and are forced to stay on it than trying to get off because of the way things are. Some people just slip in the gray and the system is so black and white so people find loops to stay on it like cutting back their hours or quitting their job and get a new one so they aren't making too much because they don't make enough to survive without qualifying for food stamps let's say but yet can live just fine if they have them so they can feed their family.
There was a poster here who wrote how when he once worked in a restaurant, there was this woman that worked there and she was on medicaid and she couldn't work more hours or get paid too much because she didn't want to lose her medicaid. She had to be on it so she could afford her medicine for her Bipolar and she wouldn't be able to afford it with full time work and without her medicine, she would be too disabled to work because of her illness. So she was very functional and not disabled when medicated but wouldn't be able to afford the medicine without medicaid, even with full time so she was forced to live off the system to be functional so she can work. That just shows how broken the system is. I would assume the OP isn't talking about this person either.
But lets just say I got less judgmental about people who want to rely on Social Security and don't want to get off it or who worry about losing their wages and being cut from it if they make too much money.
I think in ways normal people struggle more than people with disabilities because we automatically qualify for services like medicaid and there are all these services that are for people with disabilities and I was asking my husband one day is this really fair to the normal people? Why are our lives made easier and normal people have to struggle more? We have services for people with disabilities that give them jobs and employ them and normal people have to suffer who can't find a job due to the economy and we get to go to voc rehab or whatever for work and they don't. How fair is that? We even get free grants and normal people have to pay it back and we don't. My husband told me it's harder for us than normal people and we are the first to be laid off from work and it's harder for us to live in the world than normal people and it's harder for us to find work than normal people so that is why we have all these services for people with disabilities.
And sometimes I do feel I am not trying hard enough and I am finding the easy way out. I felt that way in high school too and middle school when I was accepting extra help in school so I wasn't missing any school work or flunking any assignments and having that happening would mean getting held back and having work turned in late.
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Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
Verdandi
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I'm not offended, I simply think the OP is wrong.
I do not understand why so many people perceive "disagreement" as "offense." It seems to be a way to trivialize what others might say, by characterizing it as an emotional reaction rather than as an informed opinion.
The point of disability is that all else being equal a person with disabilities is going to struggle more than a person without. The notion that so-called "normal people" struggle more makes literally no sense.
This is not to say that no one struggles, or that some people who are not disabled never have struggles that may be harder than those with disabilities. Rather, it is to say that if you have two people in similar circumstances, the one with disabilities is likely to struggle more.
One of the common struggles many people with disabilities face is coming under hostile scrutiny and criticism, for supposedly not trying hard enough, giving up, leeching, freeloading, being lazy, That's what the OP is doing, especially on the past couple of pages.
That pretty much sums it up. I wasn't really pissed until he purposely changed the title to be offensive.
He didn't just change the title, he even reworded the post itself, which made some of the posts on the first four pages suddenly seem like over the top and illogical reactions. This is just plain devious full stop, if you realise you've said something wrong then man up and admit it - don't try to hide your mistakes by erasing them! The minute he did this I lost the last 10% of possible respect I might have had about him (I lost the other 90% from his narcissist anti-Asperger rants on other threads).
He is a hypocrite by claiming people should not ask for help, as that is 'entitlement' yet he suggests they go out and mug rich people instead which is an even worse form of 'entitlement' The idea that it is somehow OK to rob someone simply because they have more money than you is morally repugnant!
His claims that a high proportion of ASD males are sexually deviant and rapists is just too offensive to even reply to.
And His claim that people with bad genetics should not be allowed to breed is just plain nazism full stop.
I'm done with this thread
_________________
Autistic dad to an autistic boy and loving it - its always fun in our house
I have Autism. My communication difficulties mean that I sometimes get words wrong, that what I mean is not what comes out.
1. What you're stating is that you literally trained yourself with no help and guidance whatsoever? You went to no psychologist, support group, or anyone else. You were able to do this with little to no funds as well? Is this all true? If all of this is true then inquiring minds want to know what you did.
2. "If I can do it, anybody can do it"
Can you prove and show how this is possible with empirical evidence please?
3. Why do over 100 aspies feel they have to go to these things on how to claim SSI? Have you ever had any in-depth conversation who are supposedly lazy, entitled and feel they do not have to change anything? Have you questioned their premises assumptions in any depth whatsoever?
http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/d ... inking/766
Based upon the definition of critical thinking I do not see any critical thinking being done by you.
It entails the examination of those structures or elements of thought implicit in all reasoning: purpose, problem, or question-at-issue; assumptions; concepts; empirical grounding; reasoning leading to conclusions; implications and consequences; objections from alternative viewpoints; and frame of reference. Critical thinking — in being responsive to variable subject matter, issues, and purposes — is incorporated in a family of interwoven modes of thinking, among them: scientific thinking, mathematical thinking, historical thinking, anthropological thinking, economic thinking, moral thinking, and philosophical thinking.
I don't see you examining their purpose, problem, question-at issue, assumptions, concepts, empirical grounding, reasoning leading to conclusions, implications and consequences, objections from alternative view points and frame of reference. What frame of reference are they operating under? You've made conclusions without examining their assumptions, view points and frame of reference. How do you derive your conclusions? Where is your statistical data?
I have to disagree with this observation (post topic) - my life has been a journey of self-improvement. I have been shaving down the rough edges and working on whatever I notice people find irritating about me.
Over the years I've created lists of things I don't like about myself, things other people have told me, and things that people do in general that are more "normal". It has helped immensely. I hit a roadblock recently in my work life, so I'm now back in therapy, on meds...I'm also in the process of getting a diagnosis or non-diagnosis (mild Aspie or anxiety, or both).
Perhaps there is a perception that people with ASD are not self-aware. Maybe it depends on where you are on the spectrum? Or the quality of therapy received, or not? Not sure.
2. I made a lot of money through a one-time stock trade in 2009 that isn't repeatable. I also have gotten lots of govt payments without working.
3. My job is temporary and supposed to become permanent, but I've been way too quiet and tired on top of naturally bad social skills so it may not.
4. Only way ill pay for bone marrow stem cell therapy (repairing damage to the corpus collodum and resetting the auto immune actions of T cells) is by getting disability and collecting back pay for about $10,000 to add to another $8000 or so I have. The last full-time job I had they have a record of was my military service which ended in early 2010 due to being fired. Hopefully, that and my 12 psychiatric diagnoses and testimony from family and a crazy friend or two will be enough.
5. Not just NPD, I also have no hobbies, interests, or friends because full-time work and school take too much energy, I'm bad at most things, and I have Anhedonia due to depression caused by frustration with my disability.
Highlights are mine.
How can you claim that "anybody can do it" without relying on support if your success in your job could've just as well not happened (see your evaluation at 3.), if you had a lot of luck (see 2), if you actually did receive support (also see 2; not even talking about other kinds of support that are provided for large groups of citizens, some of which you surely take advantage of yourself as well), if you've been talking about needing stem-cell therapy because otherwise you'd certainly commit suicide (forgive the paraphrase, I'm too lazy to look the quote up now)?
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What goes on inside is just too fast and huge and all interconnected for words to do more than barely sketch the outlines of at most one tiny little part of it at any given instant. - D.F.W.
Thelibrarian
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* Wanting food to eat
* Wanting a workplace that accommodates one's sensory and/or social needs/difficulties
* Applying for or receiving disability income
* Applying for or receiving food stamps
What are the people who pay for these things entitled to?
Should people like you decide how much of their earnings they can keep?
Elaborate.
Right now your logic sounds like this: because the taxpayers get nothing out of supporting the weak and those who cannot fit into the workplace due to the way society works , the taxpayers should not have to pay for it.
Would you rather have your country flooded with homeless disabled people literally starving to death, because you get no profit out of helping them?
Just how are you going to force taxpayers to pay to support others? The communists killed a hundred million people trying to enforce "from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs". And, as evidenced by this conversation, all of that killing was for naught.
After the awful history of the left, you are proof that the only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history.
The fact of the matter is that neither I nor the world owe you a thing.
If you had actually read any of my other posts you would have found out that I am from one of those countries that actually has a functioning social security system, and on top of that a fair healthcare system while still not being communists, but for people like you for whom even the slightest move into a more socialist direction equals the end of days, this will surely be something that is quite hard to understand.
There are a lot of options in-between communism and capitalism, and having the strong help the weak out, so they can start supporting the weak once they have become stronger themselves, is not at all something to be scared of.
Your views are rather simplistic and old fashioned and not in a good way.
Huh? All taxes are paid to support others (you're an other too!) - it's typically enforced by putting you into prison if you don't pay.
Everyone who pays is entitled to benefits (if you're driving a car, for example, you're using some of those benefits) that help him live a decent life - that's the idea of solidarity, a concept that has made humanity as successful (at least in numbers and technological advancement) as it is now.
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What goes on inside is just too fast and huge and all interconnected for words to do more than barely sketch the outlines of at most one tiny little part of it at any given instant. - D.F.W.
Thelibrarian
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There are a lot of options in-between communism and capitalism, and having the strong help the weak out, so they can start supporting the weak once they become stronger themselves, is not at all something to be scared of.
Your views are rather simplistic and old fashioned and not in a good way.
As far as having a "functional social security system", you are only fooling yourself. Every welfare state in the West is due for collapse, and sooner rather than later. As far as being "simplistic" goes, since I'm not liberal enough to create my own reality, I have to rely on what the history books have to say. I hope I'm never as sophisticated or virtuous as you are.
Last edited by Thelibrarian on 11 Aug 2013, 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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