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binaryodes
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07 Dec 2013, 6:01 pm

So how many actually cognitively work out social cues etc? Are you actually processing everything in real time (ah wide open mouth = surprise) or is it on an instinctive level? For myself its instinctive but my instinct appears to be deficient

*By processing cognitively I mean do you have a mental dialogue "His face is red, He is staring at me with furrowed brows he must be angry" or would that example be something you just realise. Its instinctive if the processes are in the background basically. I believe that NT's are on total autopilot though so I may be wrong in my definitions.



Last edited by binaryodes on 08 Dec 2013, 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

em_tsuj
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07 Dec 2013, 9:30 pm

It depends on how anxious I am and how comfortable I am with the person or situation. However, I would say that 90% of social interaction for me is highly regulated by my intellect. I am conscious about everything (eye contact, facial expression, saying the right thing, what the other person is doing, etc.) With all of my effort, I still am unsure of myself and miss a lot of social cues. I think I pass for normal though, since most people seem to like me.



CyclopsSummers
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08 Dec 2013, 2:42 am

In short, I would say that it's mainly conducted by intellect ('manually') for me, but my mother and some other people who've known me as a child will sometimes tell me that I've grown in this aspect, and that there are a lot of things that now are a lot smoother for me, and some of those things are unconscious.


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binaryodes
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08 Dec 2013, 4:18 am

Fascinating, some of it must be regulated instinctively however. When I have a conversation I compensate for my deficient social skills by reminding myself to look in eye hold myself properly maintain proper tone, be reciprocal, ensure and so on and so forth. Its not a mental dialogue for the most part, I tend to realise that im doing something innapropriate and then correct it. I dont think ,, "Oh my flies are undone that could be perceived as obscene I should do them up again. Oops better turn around". That is however the mental process I go through. I guess that ive internalised the mental procedures to the point where theyve become instinctive. Thats what im getting at

On the other hand If my partner says something in an angry tone of voice (growling) it is immediately apparent and I dont have to process it on a higher level.

Oh we are talking about the same thing. Its the definitions of instinct and intellect. Being conscious of something doesnt make it intellectual.

Instinct means something that you can do without having to go through a dialogue. Like driving a car for instance. You have to go through various procedures mentally initially. You might even say this out loud or in your head.Eventually that dialogue fades and the mental procedure is assimilated. Perhaps thats still intellectual though I dont know.



LupaLuna
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08 Dec 2013, 4:43 am

binaryodes wrote:
So how many actually cognitively work out social cues etc? :(


That's the whole thing about having Asperger's is you can't read body language and social cues cognitively or passively. Actually you can but it's very weak. too weak to be of any good or to be noticeable in most cases. The only way for us to compensate for this deficiency is to intellectuality or actively read it and that only just "tells" you how there felling. That is, If you can get it right in the first place and do it in a reasonable amount of time. You don't actually feel what the other person is felling.

Let's talk about the differences and how Aspie's and NT's read body language and social cues. Let's say that there is a person smiling at you and you see that person smiling back at you. An NT person will "passively" begin to actually feel a happy emotion inside without giving much thought to or really paying too much attention to whats on their face. To them, The process is quick and automatic. For an Aspie however. All we see is a smile on their face and have to "actively" interpret it as "That person must be happy" but we don't actually feel "emotionally" happy are selves.



binaryodes
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08 Dec 2013, 7:21 am

Right I think I see. So NT's only smile back as an emotional response to your smile? I smile because im happy to see someone or because its expected. Im not sure I agree with your assessment.

With regards to body language I think that some people with AS are able to read some expressions but its the subtleties which escape their attention.


>>>>This<<<<< thread also explores the world of autists who can actually read some body language. The commonality seems to be that we all had unpredictably violent parents. Interestingly I can read negative emotions pretty well (I think) but positive ones are a lot harder.

>>>>This<<<< video shows basic skills - I found that I didnt actually consciously have to work out what the different scenarios implied. The examples are pretty exaggerated though



binaryodes
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08 Dec 2013, 9:19 am

LupaLuna wrote:
binaryodes wrote:
So how many actually cognitively work out social cues etc? :(


That's the whole thing about having Asperger's is you can't read body language and social cues cognitively or passively. Actually you can but it's very weak. too weak to be of any good or to be noticeable in most cases. The only way for us to compensate for this deficiency is to intellectuality or actively read it and that only just "tells" you how there felling. That is, If you can get it right in the first place and do it in a reasonable amount of time. You don't actually feel what the other person is felling.

Let's talk about the differences and how Aspie's and NT's read body language and social cues. Let's say that there is a person smiling at you and you see that person smiling back at you. An NT person will "passively" begin to actually feel a happy emotion inside without giving much thought to or really paying too much attention to whats on their face. To them, The process is quick and automatic. For an Aspie however. All we see is a smile on their face and have to "actively" interpret it as "That person must be happy" but we don't actually feel "emotionally" happy are selves.


Quote:
Another thing I've learned about body language is that some aspies ( and even NT's for that matter) can read body language just fine. but it doesn't always conjure up the same felling or emotion as the other person projecting it intended it to be. It's like seeing the color red as blue.


Quote of statement you made in another thread ^



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08 Dec 2013, 9:28 am

My responses are mixed and can be as follows:

Someone smiles to me on the street. I think to myself "oo oo ooo oo, a smile, do I smile back, yes I think so" then I smile at them. Polite smile with a closed mouth not a full blown toothy grin.

Someone holds a door open for me...I look for a split second, smile and walk through..this one seems to be automatic.

I accidentally hit someone with my gym bag again whilst walking down the street, i know immediately to say 'oh sorry' but it can sometimes take a second or two to get it out of my mouth. Sometimes I am quicker, sometimes I have a delayed response. Most of the time my response is slower than it should be which I think makes me look dopey. People get annoyed with me. They are always in a hurry.

Most people don't frown at me or show any strong emotion on their face. Most of the time their faces look neutral to me...I can't see any particular emotion at all. They do stare sometimes and once in a while they smile but other than that...I don't notice much.

The last time someone did get angry with me, they yelled, frowned and waved their fist in my face. That kind of gave it away there. I think the spitl flying out of their mouth also helped.



LupaLuna
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08 Dec 2013, 4:37 pm

binaryodes wrote:
LupaLuna wrote:
binaryodes wrote:
So how many actually cognitively work out social cues etc? :(


That's the whole thing about having Asperger's is you can't read body language and social cues cognitively or passively. Actually you can but it's very weak. too weak to be of any good or to be noticeable in most cases. The only way for us to compensate for this deficiency is to intellectuality or actively read it and that only just "tells" you how there felling. That is, If you can get it right in the first place and do it in a reasonable amount of time. You don't actually feel what the other person is felling.

Let's talk about the differences and how Aspie's and NT's read body language and social cues. Let's say that there is a person smiling at you and you see that person smiling back at you. An NT person will "passively" begin to actually feel a happy emotion inside without giving much thought to or really paying too much attention to whats on their face. To them, The process is quick and automatic. For an Aspie however. All we see is a smile on their face and have to "actively" interpret it as "That person must be happy" but we don't actually feel "emotionally" happy are selves.


Quote:
Another thing I've learned about body language is that some aspies ( and even NT's for that matter) can read body language just fine. but it doesn't always conjure up the same felling or emotion as the other person projecting it intended it to be. It's like seeing the color red as blue.


Quote of statement you made in another thread ^


Ya I know. I get things confused. Its not so much the actual reading part that I am referring to as it is the interpretation part. I do know for a fact that Aspies and NT's don't read or interpretation body language or social cues in the same way. One of the things I am trying to figure out is why is it painful for an aspie to make pupil to pupil eye contact and pleasurable for an NT to do it, or maybe it is painful for an NT to do it and they just treat it like some endurance act. I don't know since I am not NT but from observing other NT's responding to it. It looks like they enjoy it.



binaryodes
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08 Dec 2013, 5:44 pm

Yehh I find that with eye contact there is an initial surge of some unidentifiable emotion. If I persevere through that however it goes away. I just dont really get anything out of it so I dont bother with it.

One thing that might be worth exploring is how many of us:
1)THINK we can read body language but in reality get it wrong most of the time
2)Simply interpret everything negatively. I just realised for instance that though im fair at telling when someone is bored or angry etc I have no idea how to tell if someone likes me. I'd have to really struggle to figure that out. Apparently I couldnt identify anger as a child so that seems rather bizarre imo
3)Can read body language but dont know how to reciprocate. For example one might be able to tell that person A is annoyed because of an impatient stance but they might have no clue what to do about it.


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