autistic 19 year old charged with murdering his mother

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Thelibrarian
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01 Dec 2013, 9:28 am

Shellfish wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I remember hearing about a first school shooting in March 1998 and it was the one in Arkansas and my mom was shocked and so was I and I wondered why did two kids do it. Then not too long later, I see on the news a 15 year old killed his parents and I was also shocked and wondered why did he do that. Not once did I think "what did the parents do that made him kill them?" or "what did all the kids at school do to make those two boys shoot kids at their school." I remember in 1995 when I heard about a ten year old boy shooting his five year old sister I asked my mom why did he kill her and she said he was jealous and now his parents don't want him anymore. I was also shocked a brother could kill his sister. Not once did I think "I wonder what the sister was doing that made her get killed by her brother."


Gun control laws in the US or lack thereof factor enormously, I'm afraid...


A professor named R.J. Rummel has estimated that around 160 million innocent people were killed by their own governments, in peacetime, in the twentieth century. I have no idea how many were killed by criminals in the same time period, but it would be negligible in comparison. So, those who advocated gun control over homicides really should be pushing to have guns taken away from government. It's just one more way the gun grabbers have to resort to fraudulent arguments to maintain their position.

It is also the case that I own some of the most lethal firearms it is legal for American civilians to own, and never once have they attacked anybody. It is people who kill--or don't kill--not guns.



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01 Dec 2013, 7:02 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Shellfish wrote:
Gun control laws in the US or lack thereof factor enormously, I'm afraid...


Yeah, because people totally couldn't kill people without a firearm.


Thelibrarian wrote:
A professor named R.J. Rummel has estimated that around 160 million innocent people were killed by their own governments, in peacetime, in the twentieth century. I have no idea how many were killed by criminals in the same time period, but it would be negligible in comparison. So, those who advocated gun control over homicides really should be pushing to have guns taken away from government. It's just one more way the gun grabbers have to resort to fraudulent arguments to maintain their position.

It is also the case that I own some of the most lethal firearms it is legal for American civilians to own, and never once have they attacked anybody. It is people who kill--or don't kill--not guns.


On the same day as the Sandy Hook murder, a man in China rampaged through a school with a knife. At Sandy Hook, 28 people (including Adam Lanza and his mother) were killed, two survived with injuries.

The attack in China resulted in injuring 22 children and one elderly adult. No deaths. Another knife attack is mentioned which had three deaths.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... tacks.html

Yes, it is true that you can kill people without using guns. But it is not accurate to make this claim without acknowledging that guns make killing people a heck of a lot easier. I would argue that it is often outright dishonest to ignore that fact. Or that nations where guns are more strictly controlled have lower murder rates (with crimes involving firearms significantly reduced).



Thelibrarian
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01 Dec 2013, 7:15 pm

On the same day as the Sandy Hook murder, a man in China rampaged through a school with a knife. At Sandy Hook, 28 people (including Adam Lanza and his mother) were killed, two survived with injuries.

The attack in China resulted in injuring 22 children and one elderly adult. No deaths. Another knife attack is mentioned which had three deaths.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... tacks.html

Yes, it is true that you can kill people without using guns. But it is not accurate to make this claim without acknowledging that guns make killing people a heck of a lot easier. I would argue that it is often outright dishonest to ignore that fact. Or that nations where guns are more strictly controlled have lower murder rates (with crimes involving firearms significantly reduced).

Very interesting example, as it proves my point exactly. Of that 160 million dead, about sixty million of those dead were in China. Why? Because China had gun control, and only the government could own guns, and average citizens were nothing more than helpless targets. As Chairman Mao himself said, all political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The reason the left wants average citizens disarmed is to take away our political power. The question of why is almost too awful to contemplate.

To recap:

Death toll at Sandy Hook due to lack of gun control: 28

Death toll in China due to gun control: 60 million.



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02 Dec 2013, 5:37 am

Obviously he wasn't such a gentle young man now was he? Also he may have had something else going on besides autism. Like some kind of crazy.



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02 Dec 2013, 6:00 am

I am sorry, but I think if he is not able to control his feelings he needs to get into "closed" service. If this will be jail, or a closed psychiatric hospital...: So I think he belongs more into the closed psychiatric hospital, but there he will have to face as well other criminal inmates, and wont feel comfortable.

I feel sorry for his mum, and feel as well sorry for him, but I think if he would have wished to work on a life fitting and suiting him, then murdering another person is simply a really stupid idea. :( I do understand that jail can be far more serious for an autist, and definitely dont wish for him on purpose to endure bad non-social conditions in jail, but if he is not in control of his aggressivity, you hardly can allow him to run around unconcerned. :(



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02 Dec 2013, 6:11 am

Verdandi,

Comparing a kitchen knife to an AR-15 is incorrect. You'd need to compare something like a sword to one (perhaps an axe too) -- which is capable of inflicting the same amount of casualties on unarmed children compared to an AR-15 for the most part (depends on many variables though, but one wouldn't necessarily be better than the other).

There's been many massacres involving melee weapons that have killed a lot of people (not to mention poisonings and explosives).



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02 Dec 2013, 7:31 am

OliveOilMom yes he certainly isn't a gentle man now, but my original question was Why? Patrick mum was well known by so many in the community and so was he as he was always by her side. I never met him but that is how he was described as a gentle introverted man/young adult. Distresses by playing games on electronics constantly. Does talk but would have to get him to engage.

So many people would have had contact with him and I am sure if he was aggressive or violent surely he would not have been able to hide this.

Again I was just wondering why or what would make a gentle person do such a violent act and Kill the only person he has in his life. There has been mention of wrong medication that he was taking.

I do think that this murder would not get so much attention if his mum was not such a public figure in the autism community in this country.

But as a mother of an autistic son when these terrible things happen is only natural to ask questions. My son takes medication there is side effects. Anything we can do to protect or education ourselves and our family can't and shouldn't been seen a double standards or an attack on members of society.

Here in Ireland at the moment a number of young men have committed suicide whom are involved in our traditional sport. My son plays the game and is heavily involve in the club so again I ask question and I worry why this is happening. We are parents isn't this our job there is no hidden agenda's only the safety of our family and friends and at times or community.


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OliveOilMom
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02 Dec 2013, 9:14 am

Annmaria wrote:
OliveOilMom yes he certainly isn't a gentle man now, but my original question was Why? Patrick mum was well known by so many in the community and so was he as he was always by her side. I never met him but that is how he was described as a gentle introverted man/young adult. Distresses by playing games on electronics constantly. Does talk but would have to get him to engage.

So many people would have had contact with him and I am sure if he was aggressive or violent surely he would not have been able to hide this.

Again I was just wondering why or what would make a gentle person do such a violent act and Kill the only person he has in his life. There has been mention of wrong medication that he was taking.

I do think that this murder would not get so much attention if his mum was not such a public figure in the autism community in this country.

But as a mother of an autistic son when these terrible things happen is only natural to ask questions. My son takes medication there is side effects. Anything we can do to protect or education ourselves and our family can't and shouldn't been seen a double standards or an attack on members of society.

Here in Ireland at the moment a number of young men have committed suicide whom are involved in our traditional sport. My son plays the game and is heavily involve in the club so again I ask question and I worry why this is happening. We are parents isn't this our job there is no hidden agenda's only the safety of our family and friends and at times or community.


Maybe he had some kind of crazy that just didn't show up until a certain trigger set him off. That can happen. Also, certain mental illnesses don't show up until teens or later so it could be that. Maybe he just snapped. Just because he was autistic doesn't rule out any of that other stuff, and it doesn't make him some gentle saint of a person who was obviously pushed into doing this. Crazy is as crazy does.



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02 Dec 2013, 9:18 am

Annmaria wrote:
OliveOilMom yes he certainly isn't a gentle man now, but my original question was Why? Patrick mum was well known by so many in the community and so was he as he was always by her side. I never met him but that is how he was described as a gentle introverted man/young adult. Distresses by playing games on electronics constantly. Does talk but would have to get him to engage.

So many people would have had contact with him and I am sure if he was aggressive or violent surely he would not have been able to hide this.

Again I was just wondering why or what would make a gentle person do such a violent act and Kill the only person he has in his life. There has been mention of wrong medication that he was taking.

I do think that this murder would not get so much attention if his mum was not such a public figure in the autism community in this country.

But as a mother of an autistic son when these terrible things happen is only natural to ask questions. My son takes medication there is side effects. Anything we can do to protect or education ourselves and our family can't and shouldn't been seen a double standards or an attack on members of society.

Here in Ireland at the moment a number of young men have committed suicide whom are involved in our traditional sport. My son plays the game and is heavily involve in the club so again I ask question and I worry why this is happening. We are parents isn't this our job there is no hidden agenda's only the safety of our family and friends and at times or community.


Regarding the medication thing, I do know that certain medications can turn an autistic person psychotic. That's why they should never be put on Prozac for example. This is not the first time that I've heard of an autistic person turning violent because of the medication that they've been on and Prozac is an example of a drug that has a reputation predisposing certain kinds of to violent behaviour. Again, I don't know what medication this guy was put on but I'm just using Prozac as an example.



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02 Dec 2013, 9:29 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
Maybe he had some kind of crazy that just didn't show up until a certain trigger set him off. That can happen. Also, certain mental illnesses don't show up until teens or later so it could be that. Maybe he just snapped. Just because he was autistic doesn't rule out any of that other stuff, and it doesn't make him some gentle saint of a person who was obviously pushed into doing this. Crazy is as crazy does.


I think the term crazy as used here is offensive and stigmatizing. It's also listed here:

http://www.autistichoya.com/p/ableist-w ... avoid.html

Another problem with the term crazy is that it's not very specific.


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02 Dec 2013, 10:30 am

am i the only person who is disturbed that we have been presented by no evidence, no formal assessment of the young man's mental state at the proposed time of crime, nor has there been due process of law, yet we here all assume the young man's guilt? is this how justice works in america now? conviction in the court of public opinion?

frankly i find this whole thread disturbing and sensationalistic.


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02 Dec 2013, 10:43 am

Opi wrote:
am i the only person who is disturbed that we have been presented by no evidence, no formal assessment of the young man's mental state at the proposed time of crime, nor has there been due process of law, yet we here all assume the young man's guilt? is this how justice works in america now? conviction in the court of public opinion?

frankly i find this whole thread disturbing and sensationalistic.


We are going by a newspaper article here rather than legal documents. They are two very different things. You can also bet the farm that there is evidence, and there will likely be a formal assessment of the perp's mental state. As far as being tried in the court of public opinion, the court of public opinion and the legal courts are two entirely different things. It really doesn't matter to the perp what we think; it matters a great deal what the courts think, though I certainly do appreciate your concern with the presumption of innocence. I do think it is important to remember the victim had the same rights as the perp--rights that were obviously violated in the worst manner possible.



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02 Dec 2013, 11:45 am

Thelibrarian wrote:
Opi wrote:
am i the only person who is disturbed that we have been presented by no evidence, no formal assessment of the young man's mental state at the proposed time of crime, nor has there been due process of law, yet we here all assume the young man's guilt? is this how justice works in america now? conviction in the court of public opinion?

frankly i find this whole thread disturbing and sensationalistic.


We are going by a newspaper article here rather than legal documents. They are two very different things. You can also bet the farm that there is evidence, and there will likely be a formal assessment of the perp's mental state. As far as being tried in the court of public opinion, the court of public opinion and the legal courts are two entirely different things. It really doesn't matter to the perp what we think; it matters a great deal what the courts think, though I certainly do appreciate your concern with the presumption of innocence. I do think it is important to remember the victim had the same rights as the perp--rights that were obviously violated in the worst manner possible.


i just think its f****d up how quickly people are to assume that because someone has been charged with a crime, they are automatically guilty of that crime. it's not just here - it's popular culture.


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02 Dec 2013, 11:48 am

Opi wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
Opi wrote:
am i the only person who is disturbed that we have been presented by no evidence, no formal assessment of the young man's mental state at the proposed time of crime, nor has there been due process of law, yet we here all assume the young man's guilt? is this how justice works in america now? conviction in the court of public opinion?

frankly i find this whole thread disturbing and sensationalistic.


We are going by a newspaper article here rather than legal documents. They are two very different things. You can also bet the farm that there is evidence, and there will likely be a formal assessment of the perp's mental state. As far as being tried in the court of public opinion, the court of public opinion and the legal courts are two entirely different things. It really doesn't matter to the perp what we think; it matters a great deal what the courts think, though I certainly do appreciate your concern with the presumption of innocence. I do think it is important to remember the victim had the same rights as the perp--rights that were obviously violated in the worst manner possible.


i just think its f**** up how quickly people are to assume that because someone has been charged with a crime, they are automatically guilty of that crime. it's not just here - it's popular culture.


Out of curiosity, do you think he is innocent in that he did not commit this crime?



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02 Dec 2013, 11:52 am

Thelibrarian wrote:

Death toll at Sandy Hook due to lack of gun control: 28

Death toll in China due to gun control: 60 million.


Oh do come off it. You reckon that without gun control, the Chinese would have mounted armed resistance? I think this is a somewhat .... naïve viewpoint.