gradma says i shoulnt say im like lennie from of miceandmen

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wozeree
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30 Jan 2014, 1:47 am

PS I'm reading The Giver. It's interesting so far. Sounds a little like the Chinese government with the choosing careers and all - but I haven't gotten very far.



jenisautistic
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30 Jan 2014, 2:13 am

wozeree wrote:
You are on the right track I believe, constant pointless conflict just adds more stress to what is an already stressed life from Autism. I noticed that not just you, but a lot of people on this website manage to really contribute without ever once getting into a fight - I think that's why being around here has helped me a lot.

I started to think about it and it's like if I think I'm right about something, I HAVE to say it. And if somebody doesn't agree with me, I HAVE to keep repeating it until they do. But that doesn't work. I finally figured out being right (or thinking you are right) is only half the conversation. You have to take a lot of other stuff into consideration to have a real conversation also. I'm better about it in RL too, I think. But you know, life is always a learning process unless you are dead! :)

So you are in a new school and the boy wasn't in the old school? I gotcha. He didn't see the rope pulling incident. He really does sound like a special boy.

About all that gay stuff and the girls - people still constantly confuse me with their intentions. I have no idea what or why they do things half the time, but I often look at them with the same curiosity that you do, sometimes I plan to put them in my novel as a character so I study them and try to figure out what is going on, or at least a version of what is going on that makes a novel fun to read. One thing I have come to realize though is that however much we may want to understand the absolute truth, in the case of people's motives and intentions, sometimes there is no absolute truth. Sometimes they are doing things they don't even know the reasons for.

Quote:
I was friends with this girl for a while but then she left me because she got cool
- ah how many of us have gone through that? How come I never got cool? :)

Quote:
But if we could have a group of people with similar needs to mine and developed a relationship over a long period of time and also were passionate and I could lead them but we would also have each other's back and come up with ideas together also.

We should have a group of people from this site be advocates and create an organization as popular as autism speaks is .

And we can make people understand what disability really means.


Yes, many people are starting grass roots autism groups now, but can you ever have too many?

Quote:
As for your New Year's resolution I hope it goes well. I think me ever since I was young I've always avoided conflict because I had so much conflict already it was bubbling and bursting even before I was born. Maybe I heard it in the fetus. :p


It's a good thing the little fetus you decided to take the other route! I don't doubt that we can form strong ideas and feelings in the womb, when you think about it at the end of the pregnancy, we are pretty much just people waiting to pop out.


Here are some things I would suggest.

First read the persons post very carefully and read it at least twice there's nothing worse than misinterpreting something.

Second if you're mad don't post right away think about what you're going to say and try to calm down first and think about it rationally.

Third if someone saying something that you don't like think about why they're saying it is a just a different opinion?is it because there upset? because they're misinformed?or something else?

Forth if you're not sure what some of the intention of a post this try to get to know them and ask them questions. Don't be afraid to ask further into why they believe that way. And always seem calm casual and nice about it.

Fith never directly blame someone for something and always consider their feelings and their backstory if you know it. Try to think that if you were on the other side basically the person who posted the post that you are responding to How would the post you are making make you feel.

And about analyzing people that's what I do except it's more like that and not what I'm actually doing since I'm not writing a novel right now.


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Autism= Awesome, unique ,Special, talented, Intelligent, Smart and Mysterious


littlebee
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30 Jan 2014, 2:14 pm

jenisautistic wrote:
skibum wrote:
Like Wozeree said, Jenny, you are not like Lenny. Your names may rhyme but that is about it. :D You are much more complex and extremely intelligent and articulate. But I know what you mean. Sometimes I feel like Lenny too. But telling people you are like him might make them think that you are less capable than you are. I can see you growing up to be a powerful women who will lead the way in doing a lot for Autism awareness. I could see you becoming an advocate for other children who are growing up in situation similar to yours.
You are awesome my dear! :D

Well let me put it this way I was talking my grandma about the ending and how I don't think George should have killed him and all that stuff and then my grandma basicly hinted that he does not feeling that's why I can't say that im like him but I think that they can have feelings and let me remind you this is the early 1930s maybe lennie maybe could've been more than we assume he is especially if he had therapy.
I get what you mean I'm not simpleminded and I am really physically weaker than money because of my low muscle tone but kind of strange because despite that I could still in the breaking things by accident literally all the time.
Basically this stumps me because I never take anyone's intelligence level into consideration because I don't think they should be how thought of as a lower standard than someone else I know that society normally does that but I don't want to do it. I guess I can just think it for myself and not say anything about it until things change.
And I never even thought of it that way I just thought it was cute how I could see myself on my grandma like Georges position and me Lenny's position. 
I mean I look at George telling Lenny not to say anything to the boss is like when my grandmother tells me not to stand near her when we go to the supermarket and not bother her when she's trying to pay at the cashier but I always end up forgetting and doing it anyway.
Even though I'm not intellectually disabled like him I'm still like that and I think my grandmas like George but I don't see that as a bad thing I just think of it is kind of adorable and ironic at the same time and kind of funny. 
I am around intellectually disabled people at the leave a lot I'm sure some of the kids in my camp bar and the people and my mothers adult home are.
And what does being intellectually disabled really mean anyway?
Kingdom of rats is moderate - severely intellectually disabled and she is a very articulate and beautiful writer even better than me and I'm sure there are many others. 
As with functioning with kids my age or NT or or not as disabled as me. I'm like a different species than even among the kids with Cerebel palsy in my old camp.
But that doesn't matter to me because I like what I like they like what they like I might need more extra help and they might not it doesn't matter to me.
And again that ending to me is not accurate at all. 


Quote:
Basically this stumps me because I never take anyone's intelligence level into consideration because I don't think they should be how thought of as a lower standard than someone else I know that society normally does that but I don't want to do it. I guess I can just think it for myself and not say anything about it until things change.

Well, Jeni, when you're doing an important task, perhaps one on which your own survival and the survival of many others depends, and you do not take into account the intellectual ability of the person you choose to help you complete this task but rather choose someone just because they are cute, surrounded by little smiley faces, and you like them, then this could have extremely disastrous results for yourself and many others. It could cause a lot of confusion and even much more suffering than already exists in this world.

Quote:
And I never even thought of it that way I just thought it was cute how I could see myself on my grandma like Georges position and me Lenny's position.

You mean that the way you're seeing things about your relationship with your grandmother is cute? That relationship in the way you described it is many things, but personally I do not see it as cute. Perhaps you are seeing your genuine and understandable affection and love for her as cute, and this is what you really meant to say, but I see love as coming with a responsibility regarding ones own behavior. Puppies and bunnies are cute and little children, but a mature human being is self-cognizant and able to take responsibility. You are saying in the words above that the way you are seeing things about this complicated and tangled relationship with an old woman who deeply loves you the best she can and is trying to take care of you and help you is cute.There may be something or other cute about it, but personally I do not think it is helping you to focus from this angle.

Quote:
I mean I look at George telling Lenny not to say anything to the boss is like when my grandmother tells me not to stand near her when we go to the supermarket and not bother her when she's trying to pay at the cashier but I always end up forgetting and doing it anyway.
Even though I'm not intellectually disabled like him I'm still like that and I think my grandmas like George but I don't see that as a bad thing I just think of it is kind of adorable and ironic at the same time and kind of funny.


Different strokes for different folks, but personally it is difficult for me to find anything cute, adorable or funny about a teenager, disabled or not, distracting at the check-out line in a grocery an old woman who is struggling to take care of her. I acknowledge at one time I myself have done this kind of behavior, my own version of it, and at the time I was doing it thought it was cute.

I think it can easily happen that people can get various feelings of genuine affection springing from the sheer human goodness within themselves mixed up with the feeling of being cute or pretty or funny or a certain quality they once received and may still be receiving attention for or even giving themselves validation for, and because of this they may in some way be missing honing in on various responsibilities that come with having this kind of affection.

This kind of thing can happen with many people. It happened with me, though not around around cuteness, but more around being funny and acting up in public for the fun of it, and trying to involve people in my family I was with into the whole scenario, and they were just embarrassed because they were with me--however some of the things I thought were funny and were meant with very genuine affection. others did not see as funny. I was not looking at them and how they might feel, but assuming they would know how I felt. However, they did not.



Last edited by littlebee on 30 Jan 2014, 10:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

wozeree
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30 Jan 2014, 7:17 pm

jenisautistic wrote:
wozeree wrote:
You are on the right track I believe, constant pointless conflict just adds more stress to what is an already stressed life from Autism. I noticed that not just you, but a lot of people on this website manage to really contribute without ever once getting into a fight - I think that's why being around here has helped me a lot.

I started to think about it and it's like if I think I'm right about something, I HAVE to say it. And if somebody doesn't agree with me, I HAVE to keep repeating it until they do. But that doesn't work. I finally figured out being right (or thinking you are right) is only half the conversation. You have to take a lot of other stuff into consideration to have a real conversation also. I'm better about it in RL too, I think. But you know, life is always a learning process unless you are dead! :)

So you are in a new school and the boy wasn't in the old school? I gotcha. He didn't see the rope pulling incident. He really does sound like a special boy.

About all that gay stuff and the girls - people still constantly confuse me with their intentions. I have no idea what or why they do things half the time, but I often look at them with the same curiosity that you do, sometimes I plan to put them in my novel as a character so I study them and try to figure out what is going on, or at least a version of what is going on that makes a novel fun to read. One thing I have come to realize though is that however much we may want to understand the absolute truth, in the case of people's motives and intentions, sometimes there is no absolute truth. Sometimes they are doing things they don't even know the reasons for.

Quote:
I was friends with this girl for a while but then she left me because she got cool
- ah how many of us have gone through that? How come I never got cool? :)

Quote:
But if we could have a group of people with similar needs to mine and developed a relationship over a long period of time and also were passionate and I could lead them but we would also have each other's back and come up with ideas together also.

We should have a group of people from this site be advocates and create an organization as popular as autism speaks is .

And we can make people understand what disability really means.


Yes, many people are starting grass roots autism groups now, but can you ever have too many?

Quote:
As for your New Year's resolution I hope it goes well. I think me ever since I was young I've always avoided conflict because I had so much conflict already it was bubbling and bursting even before I was born. Maybe I heard it in the fetus. :p


It's a good thing the little fetus you decided to take the other route! I don't doubt that we can form strong ideas and feelings in the womb, when you think about it at the end of the pregnancy, we are pretty much just people waiting to pop out.


Here are some things I would suggest.

First read the persons post very carefully and read it at least twice there's nothing worse than misinterpreting something.

Second if you're mad don't post right away think about what you're going to say and try to calm down first and think about it rationally.

Third if someone saying something that you don't like think about why they're saying it is a just a different opinion?is it because there upset? because they're misinformed?or something else?

Forth if you're not sure what some of the intention of a post this try to get to know them and ask them questions. Don't be afraid to ask further into why they believe that way. And always seem calm casual and nice about it.

Fith never directly blame someone for something and always consider their feelings and their backstory if you know it. Try to think that if you were on the other side basically the person who posted the post that you are responding to How would the post you are making make you feel.

And about analyzing people that's what I do except it's more like that and not what I'm actually doing since I'm not writing a novel right now.


That's all good advice. Another one I figured out was not to exaggerate someone elses' statement. For example:

person A: I think parents should spank children to help them understand right from wrong.

person B: oh it's obvious that you have no problem with abusing children then.

Those kind of jumps are easy to make when you feel strongly about the subject!

Do you ever get mad and have to force yourself to be nice, or does it come natural? I'd like to ask that of everybody who stays out of fights actually. (So if anybody is reading this and wants to answer...)

Hey Jen that book is creeping me out. The funny thing is I think part of the society is really cool, like how the kids get to do volunteer work and how they understand old age an are sympathetic to it because they are around it. I have another friend reading it now too. I haven't read a creepy utopia novel in quite a while. She's a good writer, it's made me think about a lot of things already.



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31 Jan 2014, 2:19 am

Quote:
Like autism speaks I don't think you're evil I just think they're highly misinformed and confused they're trying to do the best for their children without realizing the implications if they are completely "cured" or "recovered" .

Actually this came up after reading your post but also after I had read the giver for the second time you weather the first time but didn't remember so I wanted to read it again but then after I but it gave me a bad feeling and I had no idea why.


I finished the book - had to go back and look at this, to remember what you said about it. Now that I've read it it, this makes a lot of sense. In a way, Autism Speaks could be seen to be somewhat like the parents in the book, they certainly would like their kids to be like everybody else's kids, it seems.

The book's theme was a perfect metaphor for Autism, yet it was not about Autism at all, it was about everyman and everyman's struggle. In a way in really drove home that Autistic people have the exact same struggles that non Autistic do as far as wanting to spread our wings and be ourselves, so why does it always seem as if we are so apart?

I used to think in my family that I was the only one who was different from them because they were all successful and beautiful and wealthy, and when I was young I thought I was a failure different, but as I got older I was surprised that they didn't value me just for that difference. Does that make sense? Like if everybody is the same and hangs out with other people who are all exactly like them, wouldn't the one person who was different be of value? I'm not saying more value, or better, but just valued for bringing (as you called it genetic variation, but could be mental or social variation) into the mindset.

So it seems that we Autistics feel that Non Autistics, while not all the same, share a many social similarities, so we should be valued as group that brings something different to the table. Doesn't seem to work that way, does it? Conformity is a cruel mistress!!

What do you think happened to Jonas at the end?



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01 Feb 2014, 6:35 pm

Wozerree; Conformity IS a cruel mistress [did you come up with that line yourself? i really like it. May I 'steal" it?]

But it can change. It will change. We will make it change. Remember, black people used to be LEGALLY 3/5 of a human being. Research 'PROVED" ' that they were inferior in every conceivable way. As early as when I was a child there were seperate bathrooms,hospitals, schools so that whites would not "catch their diseases" and white girls less likely to be raped.

I was in my late teens when gay people were finally no longer listed as mentally ill for being gay. [and everyone knew they were going to hell]

Now it is our turn. for the past couple of decades there have been autistic activists, working hard with seemingly small results. good old Autism Speaks has made it even more difficult. But, I believe that we are reaching a tipping point and that if we take action en masse, that there will be real positive [and fairly quick]changes. MLK had a dream. so do webut we must press forward. for ourselves and our auistic brothers and sisters. [by the way. the offer for tuition paid for AutHaven is still in effect if you can provide your own transportation. We are hoping that AutHaven will be the start of inspiring other retreats where Autistics can meet other autistics, demand our rights, teach allistics about who we really are. gain hope, and, for many, an opportunity to heal our shatterred self esteems.



wozeree
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02 Feb 2014, 2:03 am

vickygleitz wrote:
Wozerree; Conformity IS a cruel mistress [did you come up with that line yourself? i really like it. May I 'steal" it?]

But it can change. It will change. We will make it change. Remember, black people used to be LEGALLY 3/5 of a human being. Research 'PROVED" ' that they were inferior in every conceivable way. As early as when I was a child there were seperate bathrooms,hospitals, schools so that whites would not "catch their diseases" and white girls less likely to be raped.

I was in my late teens when gay people were finally no longer listed as mentally ill for being gay. [and everyone knew they were going to hell]

Now it is our turn. for the past couple of decades there have been autistic activists, working hard with seemingly small results. good old Autism Speaks has made it even more difficult. But, I believe that we are reaching a tipping point and that if we take action en masse, that there will be real positive [and fairly quick]changes. MLK had a dream. so do webut we must press forward. for ourselves and our auistic brothers and sisters. [by the way. the offer for tuition paid for AutHaven is still in effect if you can provide your own transportation. We are hoping that AutHaven will be the start of inspiring other retreats where Autistics can meet other autistics, demand our rights, teach allistics about who we really are. gain hope, and, for many, an opportunity to heal our shatterred self esteems.


LOL, I think I made that up - not sure though. Yes, you may have it! Maybe it should be the Aspie Motto!

Perhaps one day they will declare us as unimpaired also (or not crazy or whatever) and just let us be considered unusual - that's a good designation, right? If we can find enough work arounds, I guess it's possible.

I think Western culture doesn't have a category for unusual people, but I think a lot of other cultures did/do. Or maybe I'm just thinking of Star Trek. :) I seem to remember they had something like that on one of those shows.

Don't think I'm going to make it to your wonderful robey-filled retreat, but I can't wait to hear all about it. I am so excited for you!



jenisautistic
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02 Feb 2014, 10:23 pm

littlebee wrote:
jenisautistic wrote:
skibum wrote:
Like Wozeree said, Jenny, you are not like Lenny. Your names may rhyme but that is about it. :D You are much more complex and extremely intelligent and articulate. But I know what you mean. Sometimes I feel like Lenny too. But telling people you are like him might make them think that you are less capable than you are. I can see you growing up to be a powerful women who will lead the way in doing a lot for Autism awareness. I could see you becoming an advocate for other children who are growing up in situation similar to yours.
You are awesome my dear! :D

Well let me put it this way I was talking my grandma about the ending and how I don't think George should have killed him and all that stuff and then my grandma basicly hinted that he does not feeling that's why I can't say that im like him but I think that they can have feelings and let me remind you this is the early 1930s maybe lennie maybe could've been more than we assume he is especially if he had therapy.
I get what you mean I'm not simpleminded and I am really physically weaker than money because of my low muscle tone but kind of strange because despite that I could still in the breaking things by accident literally all the time. 
Basically this stumps me because I never take anyone's intelligence level into consideration because I don't think they should be how thought of as a lower standard than someone else I know that society normally does that but I don't want to do it. I guess I can just think it for myself and not say anything about it until things change.
And I never even thought of it that way I just thought it was cute how I could see myself on my grandma like Georges position and me Lenny's position. 
I mean I look at George telling Lenny not to say anything to the boss is like when my grandmother tells me not to stand near her when we go to the supermarket and not bother her when she's trying to pay at the cashier but I always end up forgetting and doing it anyway.
Even though I'm not intellectually disabled like him I'm still like that and I think my grandmas like George but I don't see that as a bad thing I just think of it is kind of adorable and ironic at the same time and kind of funny. 
I am around intellectually disabled people at the leave a lot I'm sure some of the kids in my camp bar and the people and my mothers adult home are.
And what does being intellectually disabled really mean anyway?
Kingdom of rats is moderate - severely intellectually disabled and she is a very articulate and beautiful writer even better than me and I'm sure there are many others. 
As with functioning with kids my age or NT or or not as disabled as me. I'm like a different species than even among the kids with Cerebel palsy in my old camp.
But that doesn't matter to me because I like what I like they like what they like I might need more extra help and they might not it doesn't matter to me.
And again that ending to me is not accurate at all.

Quote:
Basically this stumps me because I never take anyone's intelligence level into consideration because I don't think they should be how thought of as a lower standard than someone else I know that society normally does that but I don't want to do it. I guess I can just think it for myself and not say anything about it until things change.

Well, Jeni, when you're doing an important task, perhaps one on which your own survival and the survival of many others depends, and you do not take into account the intellectual ability of the person you choose to help you complete this task but rather choose someone just because they are cute, surrounded by little smiley faces, and you like them, then this could have extremely disastrous results for yourself and many others. It could cause a lot of confusion and even much more suffering than already exists in this world.
Quote:
And I never even thought of it that way I just thought it was cute how I could see myself on my grandma like Georges position and me Lenny's position.

You mean that the way you're seeing things about your relationship with your grandmother is cute? That relationship in the way you described it is many things, but personally I do not see it as cute. Perhaps you are seeing your genuine and understandable affection and love for her as cute, and this is what you really meant to say, but I see love as coming with a responsibility regarding ones own behavior. Puppies and bunnies are cute and little children, but a mature human being is self-cognizant and able to take responsibility. You are saying in the words above that the way you are seeing things about this complicated and tangled relationship with an old woman who deeply loves you the best she can and is trying to take care of you and help you is cute.There may be something or other cute about it, but personally I do not think it is helping you to focus from this angle.
Quote:
I mean I look at George telling Lenny not to say anything to the boss is like when my grandmother tells me not to stand near her when we go to the supermarket and not bother her when she's trying to pay at the cashier but I always end up forgetting and doing it anyway.
Even though I'm not intellectually disabled like him I'm still like that and I think my grandmas like George but I don't see that as a bad thing I just think of it is kind of adorable and ironic at the same time and kind of funny.

Different strokes for different folks, but personally it is difficult for me to find anything cute, adorable or funny about a teenager, disabled or not, distracting at the check-out line in a grocery an old woman who is struggling to take care of her. I acknowledge at one time I myself have done this kind of behavior, my own version of it, and at the time I was doing it thought it was cute.
I think it can easily happen that people can get various feelings of genuine affection springing from the sheer human goodness within themselves mixed up with the feeling of being cute or pretty or funny or a certain quality they once received and may still be receiving attention for or even giving themselves validation for, and because of this they may in some way be missing honing in on various responsibilities that come with having this kind of affection. 
This kind of thing can happen with many people. It happened with me, though not around around cuteness, but more around being funny and acting up in public for the fun of it, and trying to involve people in my family I was with into the whole scenario, and they were just embarrassed because they were with me--however some of the things I thought were funny and were meant with very genuine affection. others did not see as funny. I was not looking at them and how they might feel, but assuming they would know how I felt. However, they did not.

Well it's not just because I think they're cute .
But I mean is that in your example I would not choose based on intellectual level I would base on ability in that specific area.
For example if I was building a house and they were one person was really good but who had a mental disability I would not not have them not work on only due to the fact they were mentally disabled if there was someone with a better specific skills and I would choose them over the person who has a mental disability but not because he was mentally disabled . 
When choosing ability i don't look at overall ability really I look at the ability the specific task on witch the ability calls for.
Like how the boss hired Lenny because he was good at working and he was really strong even though he wasn't very smart.
When I was volunteering at the community for people who are less fortunate and homeless to get them food and dinner on Christmas. This was my second year in a row. I couldn't do a lot of the work especially being so young and weak and because of my physical delay.
But they didn't mind it because I had a special talent with talking to the children and the people making them feel really happy and welcome and really good.
And they help me out along my uncle.
And that the end of the day they said I did a wonderful job . The and a lot of them thought I was cute.
They don't even know my diagnosis or that I'm disabled at all I never mentioned it or said anything.
As for both of what you were talking about I think I miss use the word cute versus charming.
Like I find it wonderful and adorable that me and my grandmother had such a close relationship the incident that I mentioned above wouldn't break it. 
In some cases we like to joke about It's kind of stuff because sometimes I like to talk to my grandma and the night before we go to sleep or sometimes talk to her when my grandmother wakes up in the middle the night. And also how I want to be around my grandma all the time and I'm always asking her questions and talking to her and wanting to show her things and always wanting to help her and as you said I have so much affection for her.
You like to joke about it and even though it is kind of annoying to my grandmother and family it's what makes our relationship stronger In a way. 
My grandma and I sleep in the same bed and I like to hug her and sleep with her cuddle like she's a teddy bear when I go to sleep.
and two nights ago.The previous night was Friday and I had stayed up all night Thursday night.My grandmother wanted me to go to sleep early just let me cuddle with her and then I laid my head on her shoulder or chest and then after a while I fell asleep and it was early I normally never fall asleep early.
I am closer to my grandmother than I ever will be with anyone in my entire life. 
We are inseparable. And we have more love than any regular teenager would especially since there at the stage where they get Rebellious.
And well other teens have seemed to get more and more separated from their parents or guardians we have just grown closer.
And things that before that used to happen all the time. really is bad things now seem to be rare we may have arguments and we may get frustrated with each other and our situation and problems might seem bad at times but it will never get so bad in makes me feel in a dark place like it used to.
and that shows improvement that shows change love and development and it shows that were learning about each other.
Things have never been better and because of my grandmother being wonderful and amazing it seems like I can get though any bad thing with her around. (well except if I end up being bullied again but I don't know if that will happen).


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Autism= Awesome, unique ,Special, talented, Intelligent, Smart and Mysterious


jenisautistic
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02 Feb 2014, 10:35 pm

wozeree wrote:
Quote:
Like autism speaks I don't think you're evil I just think they're highly misinformed and confused they're trying to do the best for their children without realizing the implications if they are completely "cured" or "recovered" .

Actually this came up after reading your post but also after I had read the giver for the second time you weather the first time but didn't remember so I wanted to read it again but then after I but it gave me a bad feeling and I had no idea why.


I finished the book - had to go back and look at this, to remember what you said about it. Now that I've read it it, this makes a lot of sense. In a way, Autism Speaks could be seen to be somewhat like the parents in the book, they certainly would like their kids to be like everybody else's kids, it seems.

The book's theme was a perfect metaphor for Autism, yet it was not about Autism at all, it was about everyman and everyman's struggle. In a way in really drove home that Autistic people have the exact same struggles that non Autistic do as far as wanting to spread our wings and be ourselves, so why does it always seem as if we are so apart?

I used to think in my family that I was the only one who was different from them because they were all successful and beautiful and wealthy, and when I was young I thought I was a failure different, but as I got older I was surprised that they didn't value me just for that difference. Does that make sense? Like if everybody is the same and hangs out with other people who are all exactly like them, wouldn't the one person who was different be of value? I'm not saying more value, or better, but just valued for bringing (as you called it genetic variation, but could be mental or social variation) into the mindset.

So it seems that we Autistics feel that Non Autistics, while not all the same, share a many social similarities, so we should be valued as group that brings something different to the table. Doesn't seem to work that way, does it? Conformity is a cruel mistress!!

What do you think happened to Jonas at the end?


Well as for the book I liked it but it was very creepy and weird. I think but at the end Jonas finds a new village when this color music memories of that stuff since he way since he was hearing the music at the end of the book.

I think Gabriel is a metaphor for a developmentally disabled/ delayed person. One maybe like Temple Grandin I'm not sure. There are actually two folks that are the giver but they don't follow Jonas i'm not exactly sure what they follow I think they follow the other people in the town.

I haven't read them yet but I will definitely look for the sequels and then give you a link.

I definitely thought of the parents as autism speaks.

What do you think about the givers wife who was released early? What do you think she was a metaphor for?


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02 Feb 2014, 10:38 pm

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02 Feb 2014, 11:32 pm

jenisautistic wrote:
wozeree wrote:
Quote:
Like autism speaks I don't think you're evil I just think they're highly misinformed and confused they're trying to do the best for their children without realizing the implications if they are completely "cured" or "recovered" .

Actually this came up after reading your post but also after I had read the giver for the second time you weather the first time but didn't remember so I wanted to read it again but then after I but it gave me a bad feeling and I had no idea why.


I finished the book - had to go back and look at this, to remember what you said about it. Now that I've read it it, this makes a lot of sense. In a way, Autism Speaks could be seen to be somewhat like the parents in the book, they certainly would like their kids to be like everybody else's kids, it seems.

The book's theme was a perfect metaphor for Autism, yet it was not about Autism at all, it was about everyman and everyman's struggle. In a way in really drove home that Autistic people have the exact same struggles that non Autistic do as far as wanting to spread our wings and be ourselves, so why does it always seem as if we are so apart?

I used to think in my family that I was the only one who was different from them because they were all successful and beautiful and wealthy, and when I was young I thought I was a failure different, but as I got older I was surprised that they didn't value me just for that difference. Does that make sense? Like if everybody is the same and hangs out with other people who are all exactly like them, wouldn't the one person who was different be of value? I'm not saying more value, or better, but just valued for bringing (as you called it genetic variation, but could be mental or social variation) into the mindset.

So it seems that we Autistics feel that Non Autistics, while not all the same, share a many social similarities, so we should be valued as group that brings something different to the table. Doesn't seem to work that way, does it? Conformity is a cruel mistress!!

What do you think happened to Jonas at the end?


Well as for the book I liked it but it was very creepy and weird. I think but at the end Jonas finds a new village when this color music memories of that stuff since he way since he was hearing the music at the end of the book.

I think Gabriel is a metaphor for a developmentally disabled/ delayed person. One maybe like Temple Grandin I'm not sure. There are actually two folks that are the giver but they don't follow Jonas i'm not exactly sure what they follow I think they follow the other people in the town.

I haven't read them yet but I will definitely look for the sequels and then give you a link.

I definitely thought of the parents as autism speaks.

What do you think about the givers wife who was released early? What do you think she was a metaphor for?


I think you are right about Gabe because they very specifically base the releases of children on making expected milestones. I guess that's where it ties in to the Autism Speaks parents a lot.

I also thought his friend Asher was interesting - he didn't get released, but he was clearly not perfect in their eyes. That scene where he got his assignment and the mean old lady was mocking his early mistakes and everyone laughed at him and he kind of had to laugh too - that was a telling scene.

But then you know they kept the Giver around because they knew they needed him.

I do like the way she didn't explain everything so you are left with a bunch of questions that your mind wants to wrestle with.

Giver's wife? Do you mean his daughter? Can't remember too much about the wife. The daughter was maybe an example of how strength gets broken by the cruelty of the world. Think how much she wouldn't have wanted to leave her father and would have known how much it would hurt him, but she couldn't take it. But she wasn't a weak girl at all. She just couldn't face knowing all the same stuff that Jonas had come to realize about the people, and how she'd eventually be alone with it all. Remember very early on Jonas started saying there had to be a way to stop all of it, but maybe she never had the ability to have any hope for that.

Oh that scene when the whole family was so casually agreeing that Gabe should be released because he cried for one night. And then when the father did it! Yikes. And how about that contract they had to sign promising they wouldn't love Gabe..how do you make a promise like that (or more to the point how can you control your emotions)?

I hope Jonas and Gabe did survive!

Tell me if you have any more good books to read. We could start a reading club here.



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03 Feb 2014, 12:38 am

wozeree wrote:
jenisautistic wrote:
wozeree wrote:
Quote:
Like autism speaks I don't think you're evil I just think they're highly misinformed and confused they're trying to do the best for their children without realizing the implications if they are completely "cured" or "recovered" .

Actually this came up after reading your post but also after I had read the giver for the second time you weather the first time but didn't remember so I wanted to read it again but then after I but it gave me a bad feeling and I had no idea why.


I finished the book - had to go back and look at this, to remember what you said about it. Now that I've read it it, this makes a lot of sense. In a way, Autism Speaks could be seen to be somewhat like the parents in the book, they certainly would like their kids to be like everybody else's kids, it seems.

The book's theme was a perfect metaphor for Autism, yet it was not about Autism at all, it was about everyman and everyman's struggle. In a way in really drove home that Autistic people have the exact same struggles that non Autistic do as far as wanting to spread our wings and be ourselves, so why does it always seem as if we are so apart?

I used to think in my family that I was the only one who was different from them because they were all successful and beautiful and wealthy, and when I was young I thought I was a failure different, but as I got older I was surprised that they didn't value me just for that difference. Does that make sense? Like if everybody is the same and hangs out with other people who are all exactly like them, wouldn't the one person who was different be of value? I'm not saying more value, or better, but just valued for bringing (as you called it genetic variation, but could be mental or social variation) into the mindset.

So it seems that we Autistics feel that Non Autistics, while not all the same, share a many social similarities, so we should be valued as group that brings something different to the table. Doesn't seem to work that way, does it? Conformity is a cruel mistress!!

What do you think happened to Jonas at the end?


Well as for the book I liked it but it was very creepy and weird. I think but at the end Jonas finds a new village when this color music memories of that stuff since he way since he was hearing the music at the end of the book.

I think Gabriel is a metaphor for a developmentally disabled/ delayed person. One maybe like Temple Grandin I'm not sure. There are actually two folks that are the giver but they don't follow Jonas i'm not exactly sure what they follow I think they follow the other people in the town.

I haven't read them yet but I will definitely look for the sequels and then give you a link.

I definitely thought of the parents as autism speaks.

What do you think about the givers wife who was released early? What do you think she was a metaphor for?


I think you are right about Gabe because they very specifically base the releases of children on making expected milestones. I guess that's where it ties in to the Autism Speaks parents a lot.

I also thought his friend Asher was interesting - he didn't get released, but he was clearly not perfect in their eyes. That scene where he got his assignment and the mean old lady was mocking his early mistakes and everyone laughed at him and he kind of had to laugh too - that was a telling scene.

But then you know they kept the Giver around because they knew they needed him.

I do like the way she didn't explain everything so you are left with a bunch of questions that your mind wants to wrestle with.

Giver's wife? Do you mean his daughter? Can't remember too much about the wife. The daughter was maybe an example of how strength gets broken by the cruelty of the world. Think how much she wouldn't have wanted to leave her father and would have known how much it would hurt him, but she couldn't take it. But she wasn't a weak girl at all. She just couldn't face knowing all the same stuff that Jonas had come to realize about the people, and how she'd eventually be alone with it all. Remember very early on Jonas started saying there had to be a way to stop all of it, but maybe she never had the ability to have any hope for that.

Oh that scene when the whole family was so casually agreeing that Gabe should be released because he cried for one night. And then when the father did it! Yikes. And how about that contract they had to sign promising they wouldn't love Gabe..how do you make a promise like that (or more to the point how can you control your emotions)?

I hope Jonas and Gabe did survive!

Tell me if you have any more good books to read. We could start a reading club here.


Oh yeah Asher was very interesting maybe he represents someone with as or more likely that one kid that you meet who's really strange but you like anyway and is somehow neurologically and physically normal.

As for the giver I meant the person who wanted to be released early and I think that is a good metaphor maybe like all those bullied kids who will kill themselves because they don't think it'll get any better.

That's seeing Gabriel with heart-wrenching but what about the scene with the father releases that twin who's lighter than the other twin.

The other books I can recommend is right now out of my mind, the outsiders, The book thief, and currently I'm reading the messenger there's also a book that was recommended to me a long time ago called through the eyes of aliens and also if you haven't read already the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime.

And that scene in the beginning with the pilot gets released when I was first reading the book I never realized that the pilot was killed.


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03 Feb 2014, 12:53 am

wozeree wrote:
jenisautistic wrote:
wozeree wrote:
You are on the right track I believe, constant pointless conflict just adds more stress to what is an already stressed life from Autism. I noticed that not just you, but a lot of people on this website manage to really contribute without ever once getting into a fight - I think that's why being around here has helped me a lot.

I started to think about it and it's like if I think I'm right about something, I HAVE to say it. And if somebody doesn't agree with me, I HAVE to keep repeating it until they do. But that doesn't work. I finally figured out being right (or thinking you are right) is only half the conversation. You have to take a lot of other stuff into consideration to have a real conversation also. I'm better about it in RL too, I think. But you know, life is always a learning process unless you are dead! :)

So you are in a new school and the boy wasn't in the old school? I gotcha. He didn't see the rope pulling incident. He really does sound like a special boy.

About all that gay stuff and the girls - people still constantly confuse me with their intentions. I have no idea what or why they do things half the time, but I often look at them with the same curiosity that you do, sometimes I plan to put them in my novel as a character so I study them and try to figure out what is going on, or at least a version of what is going on that makes a novel fun to read. One thing I have come to realize though is that however much we may want to understand the absolute truth, in the case of people's motives and intentions, sometimes there is no absolute truth. Sometimes they are doing things they don't even know the reasons for.

Quote:
I was friends with this girl for a while but then she left me because she got cool
- ah how many of us have gone through that? How come I never got cool? :)

Quote:
But if we could have a group of people with similar needs to mine and developed a relationship over a long period of time and also were passionate and I could lead them but we would also have each other's back and come up with ideas together also.

We should have a group of people from this site be advocates and create an organization as popular as autism speaks is .

And we can make people understand what disability really means.


Yes, many people are starting grass roots autism groups now, but can you ever have too many?

Quote:
As for your New Year's resolution I hope it goes well. I think me ever since I was young I've always avoided conflict because I had so much conflict already it was bubbling and bursting even before I was born. Maybe I heard it in the fetus. :p


It's a good thing the little fetus you decided to take the other route! I don't doubt that we can form strong ideas and feelings in the womb, when you think about it at the end of the pregnancy, we are pretty much just people waiting to pop out.


Here are some things I would suggest.

First read the persons post very carefully and read it at least twice there's nothing worse than misinterpreting something.

Second if you're mad don't post right away think about what you're going to say and try to calm down first and think about it rationally.

Third if someone saying something that you don't like think about why they're saying it is a just a different opinion?is it because there upset? because they're misinformed?or something else?

Forth if you're not sure what some of the intention of a post this try to get to know them and ask them questions. Don't be afraid to ask further into why they believe that way. And always seem calm casual and nice about it.

Fith never directly blame someone for something and always consider their feelings and their backstory if you know it. Try to think that if you were on the other side basically the person who posted the post that you are responding to How would the post you are making make you feel.

And about analyzing people that's what I do except it's more like that and not what I'm actually doing since I'm not writing a novel right now.
.

That's all good advice. Another one I figured out was not to exaggerate someone elses' statement. For example:

person A: I think parents should spank children to help them understand right from wrong.

person B: oh it's obvious that you have no problem with abusing children then.

Those kind of jumps are easy to make when you feel strongly about the subject!

Do you ever get mad and have to force yourself to be nice, or does it come natural? I'd like to ask that of everybody who stays out of fights actually. (So if anybody is reading this and wants to answer...)

Hey Jen that book is creeping me out. The funny thing is I think part of the society is really cool, like how the kids get to do volunteer work and how they understand old age an are sympathetic to it because they are around it. I have another friend reading it now too. I haven't read a creepy utopia novel in quite a while. She's a good writer, it's made me think about a lot of things already.



Well not really sometimes it's just that I would misunderstand what someone is saying the first time or I'll get intimidated by the person because I think that they're more able or I'm just not understanding what they are saying because they're using big language or because their post is long and intricate.

and then when I read it A few times I'll feel better about it understand it more .

Other times I'll be arguing something that I know what's wrong and trying to keep myself from using assumptions and to look at everything from all sides of it.like you mentioned but I usually don't jump to them .

Or sometimes it's hard for me to make my decision because I can't decide or maybe because I'm going into my old pattern observing the first thing I hear and then repeating it.

But as long as I read carefully and think about what I want to say before I said I don't really have these problems. But sometimes it does take dedication into figure out how to say something without making someone upset or calming down someone when they are upset and at the same time sharing your opinion or fact and standing up for what you believe in.


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03 Feb 2014, 1:06 am

Haha, I wasn't saying you do it, I was saying I do it - it is very easy for me to do!

Quote:
But sometimes it does take dedication into figure out how to say something without making someone upset or calming down someone when they are upset and at the same time sharing your opinion or fact and standing up for what you believe in.


Your response to littlebee a few hours ago is a perfect example of how well you do that. Your grandma sounds adorable. By now you've drawn a pretty good portrait of her with all the posts about her. Does she know she's famous on Wrong Planet?



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03 Feb 2014, 1:22 am

wozeree wrote:
Haha, I wasn't saying you do it, I was saying I do it - it is very easy for me to do!

Quote:
But sometimes it does take dedication into figure out how to say something without making someone upset or calming down someone when they are upset and at the same time sharing your opinion or fact and standing up for what you believe in.


Your response to littlebee a few hours ago is a perfect example of how well you do that. Your grandma sounds adorable. By now you've drawn a pretty good portrait of her with all the posts about her. Does she know she's famous on Wrong Planet?


:D No think I have said something about fourms and stuff but she doesn't understand anything about the Internet.


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03 Feb 2014, 1:47 am

I read The Giver in high school and I found it all scary and people were fine with how they were living because that was what they grew up with and they never lived like the way we do now so they don't know any different. Everyone was equal and it was an example of communism. I thought Gabe was special needs and was possibly autistic but they would release all the special needs kids and kids who were behind and also released elderlies when they became useless. Jonus finds out how things used to be and he is all of a sudden unhappy how things are in his community. It reminded me of Pleasantville because the world was literally black and white and they seemed to live in a dome because the weather stayed the same and so did the temperature and it reminded me of The Truman Show. but once Jonas left the community it became like the real world because the weather changed and there was color. The book did upset me but I wasn't mad at the author, I think she did good with the book and it was all about the future and what things are like in the community and I don't think it meant she hated elderlies and special needs and they should all be enthusized (sp). It was just the way things were in her book she wanted.

I have read Gathering Blue and I don't even remember what it was about. I had no idea it was a sequel to The Giver. I do remember the girl in it had a pegged leg.


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