I finally really get why NTs might not like us

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ASPartOfMe
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29 Jan 2014, 5:16 pm

Sethno wrote:
dianthus wrote:
...One day a man said "good morning" to me and I didn't respond. I probably would have, but it caught me off guard...

Before I got out of earshot I heard him say, "WELL GOOD MORNING TO YOU TOO" in a disgusted tone of voice. People like that really scare me because they get offended at the slightest thing and it's hard to predict what they will do. I understand that he just wanted me to respond "good morning" or "how are you" or something like that. I just couldn't get the words out of my mouth in time...


I'll agree that that person is a goon.

For all he knew, you might have been deaf, might have been unable to speak, whatever.

Egocentric.

You likely didn't have to be autistic to get on that man's wrong side. Any person that didn't please his whim of the moment would likely have gotten that type of abuse.


There must be a lot of goons because I have gotten this reaction or a variation of it (You're Welcome) numerous times when I am in my own world and forget the social nicety


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dianthus
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29 Jan 2014, 5:22 pm

Sethno wrote:
You likely didn't have to be autistic to get on that man's wrong side. Any person that didn't please his whim of the moment would likely have gotten that type of abuse.


I agree. But people like that are far from unusual. It has been a recurring thing, since I was little, that people get offended if I don't respond when they speak to me. Most people just don't have such a quick, obvious reaction to it, instead it builds up over time. It made me realize that other people are just as offended even if they might not show it right away.



Sethno
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29 Jan 2014, 6:09 pm

dianthus wrote:
Sethno wrote:
You likely didn't have to be autistic to get on that man's wrong side. Any person that didn't please his whim of the moment would likely have gotten that type of abuse.


I agree. But people like that are far from unusual. It has been a recurring thing, since I was little, that people get offended if I don't respond when they speak to me. Most people just don't have such a quick, obvious reaction to it, instead it builds up over time. It made me realize that other people are just as offended even if they might not show it right away.


Maybe that was my point. He's a jerk and is not the average person. Most you wouldn't have to worry about like you would with him.

Over time, constant exposure to your (literal or figurative) failure to make eye contact or communicate "fully" might upset some, gradually.

It's like dealing with someone who doesn't speak your language and isn't learning it. After a while, you're going to sort of give up trying to interact with them. And when that "distance" isn't for a reason they can quite grasp (like a language barrier), there can be negative feelings.

Sadly, without knowledge they go from frustration to animosity. Why not? Isn't being animalistic what a lot of people do best? :(


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dianthus
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29 Jan 2014, 6:24 pm

I can only reiterate what ASPartOfMe said, there must be a lot of goons and jerks. In some work cultures or communities they are the average person. I run into people like this frequently. Most just aren't that direct about it, but they do let you know, and they do retaliate.



Sethno
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29 Jan 2014, 6:36 pm

dianthus wrote:
I can only reiterate what ASPartOfMe said, there must be a lot of goons and jerks....


No! How can that be?!?!? :lol:

dianthus wrote:
...Most just aren't that direct about it, but they do let you know, and they do retaliate.


Yes, they certainly do. :?


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29 Jan 2014, 9:20 pm

Also because we can be annoying as f**k with a tendency to blurt out things that hurt their feelings.


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29 Jan 2014, 9:45 pm

I get people saying hello to me when I am on my daily walk, particularly older people. I think it's a social-rule (nicety) that they learned growing up. So, I just say Hello back. If I don't know what to say in response to what someone has said I just nod and smile. That person was probably reacting because you're not following his 'script' - nothing to take personally or complain about. They're just misunderstandings. Do you get upset with people when they don't follow your rule-book? Or get upset with people who don't align with your values? I know I've been considered a 'jerk' (and worse) and I've thought that of 'others' because of perceived inconsideration/slights. Bruised ego and all that. It's important to keep an eye out for generalisations, otherwise you'll automatically put people in a 'box' (label/categorise them) based on single interactions. It's very judgmental and reflects low self-esteem.


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dc2610
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29 Jan 2014, 11:24 pm

Willard wrote:
I think you're grossly oversimplifying.

I, for one, am capable of offending other people unintentionally in so many ways, I can't begin to count them all. It isn't just about not socializing, I step on toes even when I think I'm socializing just fine. :?


This is me every single day unless I avoid interacting with people. I'm always scratching my head wondering what I did this time because people are always giving me strange looks or avoiding me altogether. This is very very frustrating. After awhile I just give up.



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29 Jan 2014, 11:39 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
Also because we can be annoying as f**k with a tendency to blurt out things that hurt their feelings.


I once put my hand on a woman's stomach and asked her if she was pregnant. She wasn't. Needless to say, that didn't go over well. I also asked a guy in front of the whole class how did he shave without cutting his pimples. That really didn't end well. I want to stop doing this. Also constant interrupting and going on and on about my special interests.



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29 Jan 2014, 11:46 pm

dc2610 wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
Also because we can be annoying as f**k with a tendency to blurt out things that hurt their feelings.


I once put my hand on a woman's stomach and asked her if she was pregnant. She wasn't.


I did exactly that just recently. So embarrassing and I felt horrible because I'm pretty big myself and I just drew attention to her. But she was skinny everywhere else, it was very confusing!! ! I should really just stop talking to people altogether!



dianthus
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29 Jan 2014, 11:50 pm

All it takes is some really small, petty thing to make some people mad. And I don't think it's so much about them not liking us, as it is about them wanting to be liked flattered, and wanting to feel secure in their social status. They feel threatened by anything that makes them feel the slightest bit rejected, or that they think might make them look bad to other people. So if you make a mistake and say something that is unflattering, or don't respond in a way that makes them look good, they get upset.



dc2610
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29 Jan 2014, 11:56 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Soccer22 wrote:
I think they don't like us for every reason we sometimes don't like NT people. We are way different from one another and it gets frustrating that we can't understand each other. But that's just one theory from my personal experiences.


I agree with to this theory. I also think there is some merit to the Uncanny valley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley theory. I think Uncanny Valley theory explains why charities that promote helping the most severely affected children rake in big money while organizations for Adults with Aspergers or Autism Spectrum Disorder Level 1 can barely scrap by or are not around anymore.


I guess this is why the book The Complete Guide To Asperger's Syndrome by Tony Attwood suggests that acting classes can be very beneficial to people with AS.

God, I feel like such a freak.



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30 Jan 2014, 12:12 am

qawer wrote:
When you do not socialise you indicate to a NT that you might not be willing to help him when in need.


I do think this has something to do with it. But not everyone thinks of it in terms of helping and being helped. And others it is more like what use they think they can get out of you. I never really thought about it that way myself until I heard other people say it. They would say things like, don't make that person mad, you might be able to use them for something. I think a lot of unspoken social negotiation is based around people's usefulness to each other.

I didn't totally catch on to this until I had a job working in an office where I had access to information other people wanted to know about. At first I thought they were being genuinely friendly with me. But over time I noticed more and more how they were really only nice to me when they wanted something. Either they just wanted to be nosy and find out something about someone else, or they wanted me to cover their work duties while they were going to be on vacation. This one woman in particular really seemed to like me and it was fun talking to her because we joked around a lot and she would tell me funny stories about other people and make me laugh. But then those other people would come around and say things to me where I realized she had been talking about me to them too. After awhile I realized I couldn't trust her at all and I stopped telling her things, and she stopped being friendly with me.



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30 Jan 2014, 1:15 am

I think that the main fault lies with NT's. NT's like hierarchy. It is what they base their illegitimate power on. The issue for the NT is when someone doesn't pay attention to hierarchies. To preserve his power position within the hierarchy, the NT eliminates the non hierarchical as a threat through social ostracism and other means.



Last edited by Stannis on 30 Jan 2014, 1:42 am, edited 6 times in total.

League_Girl
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30 Jan 2014, 1:17 am

wozeree wrote:
dc2610 wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
Also because we can be annoying as f**k with a tendency to blurt out things that hurt their feelings.


I once put my hand on a woman's stomach and asked her if she was pregnant. She wasn't.


I did exactly that just recently. So embarrassing and I felt horrible because I'm pretty big myself and I just drew attention to her. But she was skinny everywhere else, it was very confusing!! ! I should really just stop talking to people altogether!




You don't ever ask anyone if they are pregnant, even if it's obvious. NTs break this social rule too. Also never put your hand on the woman's belly without her permission. NTs also do this too and lot of pregnant women do not like it. My common sister in law who is pregnant always says no whenever people ask if she is just to mess with them. Then they feel bad for even asking. I don't know how her belly looks now instead of looking like having a gut.


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Last edited by League_Girl on 30 Jan 2014, 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

League_Girl
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30 Jan 2014, 1:20 am

I got a guy mad one time for ignoring him when he asked me if I could spare him a dollar and I just kept on walking and then he said "Thank you and have a nice day, I was just trying to be friendly you b***h" and I still kept on walking. I don't see how asking to spare anything is being friendly. They are just begging. I usually shake my head as I walk by but that time I didn't.


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