AS people = Beta males/females?

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But I know intellectually and from experience that others in fact do attach very much emotion to the rank of people, so I would feel like a fool if I let someone with "lower rank" exploit my feelings by realizing they just needed to treat me well in order to trick me.

For that reason I feel like I cannot escape the ranking aspect when it comes to relationships, because I could never be sure of the intentions on the other part - actually making it quite difficult for me to fall in love the way I feel I was meant to. A "ranking" levelling my own would actually be the only way of convincing me of their intentions (and having AS that really ain't very high!).

I hate to tell you this, but when it comes to NT "ranking" YOU are low-ranked because you have a disability. All of those fat, ugly, mentally ill, or socioeconomically disadvantaged women you consider below you are actually in your league.

I'm not very fond of terms like alpha and beta because they oversimplify things and I associate them with PUA rhetoric, but there definitely is a social pecking order that is based on good looks, attitude and proper social behavior rather than socio-economic status or intellectual abilities. And I'm afraid that aspies are more likely than others to find themselves at the bottom of this pecking order and get cast in the role of the pariah.

Case in point: I was quite successful in my third and last job because it catered to my interests and I really applied myself. Several pay raises, increasingly more responsibility, employer-financed training courses etc. But somehow, I was still the odd one out and the butt end of every joke. Everyone seemed to agree that it was perfectly ok to make fun of me behind my back and be condescending to my face, even the epitome of a village idiot who barely had enough brain cells to operate the trash compactor in the warehouse downstairs. He had the intellect of a six-year-old, but he knew when to nod and smile, when to say "oh no" and when to laugh about some stupid joke. Or about me, for that matter. So he was accepted as part of the gang that formed around the sole purpose of ridiculing the socially inept weirdo who out-earned 80% of them and was still lower than dirt in the social workplace hierarchy.

This experience taught me that it doesn't matter how much you try to contribute to society, nor does it matter how intelligent and educated you are. When people see you as a freak and pariah because you don't greet them with the fakest of smiles and utter drivel like "Oh, what weather we're having! Rarely has it been so weathery at this time of the year! How are your wife's hemorrhoids doing? And isn't that weirdo over there a total tool?", you'll never earn their acceptance or approval. Unless you're rich enough to simply buy it I suppose.

I'm not very fond of terms like alpha and beta because they oversimplify things and I associate them with PUA rhetoric, but there definitely is a social pecking order that is based on good looks, attitude and proper social behavior rather than socio-economic status or intellectual abilities. And I'm afraid that aspies are more likely than others to find themselves at the bottom of this pecking order and get cast in the role of the pariah.

Case in point: I was quite successful in my third and last job because it catered to my interests and I really applied myself. Several pay raises, increasingly more responsibility, employer-financed training courses etc. But somehow, I was still the odd one out and the butt end of every joke. Everyone seemed to agree that it was perfectly ok to make fun of me behind my back and be condescending to my face, even the epitome of a village idiot who barely had enough brain cells to operate the trash compactor in the warehouse downstairs. He had the intellect of a six-year-old, but he knew when to nod and smile, when to say "oh no" and when to laugh about some stupid joke. Or about me, for that matter. So he was accepted as part of the gang that formed around the sole purpose of ridiculing the socially inept weirdo who out-earned 80% of them and was still lower than dirt in the social workplace hierarchy.

This experience taught me that it doesn't matter how much you try to contribute to society, nor does it matter how intelligent and educated you are. When people see you as a freak and pariah because you don't greet them with the fakest of smiles and utter drivel like "Oh, what weather we're having! Rarely has it been so weathery at this time of the year! How are your wife's hemorrhoids doing? And isn't that weirdo over there a total tool?", you'll never earn their acceptance or approval. Unless you're rich enough to simply buy it I suppose.

How are your wife's hemorrhoids doing?

Yep, I know you are right on that one. Aspergers Syndrome makes you VERY low-ranked, the pariah, the social outcast. That might in fact be the big problem, realizing just how much society, not only directly, but also indirectly, in fact despises your real you - so much that not even good looks, long education, good job, etc. can change that to any degree. One could just say I should learn to accept that my personality is flawed because it is not very fit for survival in NT-society, since I am completely outnumbered in the social context.

So being together with one of the girls you mentioned would constantly remind me of my, according to society, flawed personality and would humiliate me on a personal level at any public events being seen together with her (she would not be humiliated due to her personality, only her superficial characteristics, I see that as FAR less bad). See what I mean? And we were supposed to call what we had together love?

I mean, I can accept that my looks have limits, my job-skills are limited etc. I am okay with being "judged" on those things whether they are good or bad. They are just superficial characteristics. But the fact that the personality I am and love is so devalued to others, is quite hard to accept, given you have to "fall in love" and like other people on those conditions. How would that even be possible? They truly hate the real me, but can just come to terms with me because of looks and money!! !

I realize that is the reason I cannot find love. Finding love equates being ridiculed and humiliated, since people realize there has to be some subtle reason (my personality they realize) I put up with that league given my other seemingly "high-ranking" qualities.

I do not know whether I come across as hypocritical here again.

Yes, you are coming across as hypocritical again. Because while you claim to dislike social hierarchies, the substance of your complaint is that you are not as high in the hierarchy as you think you should be. That's not a complaint about the existence of hierarchies. It's an endorsement.

So if there truly was truth behind my claim that I dislike social hierarchies, I would decide to not want to find job and mate)?

.

Or you could spend your entire life flagellating yourself and feeling like a POS based on what you think other people think, and hating yourself for not living up to their standards and expectations.

But that's not very conducive to productivity. Looks to me like you answered your own question.

Be who you are. F__k 'em if they don't like it.

I mean, really, after all, that's all you CAN do.

So is the hypocritical stance in fact that I claim to dislike social hierarchies, but still want to survive, and survival (in the given environment) requires accepting and hence giving approval to the social hierarchy?

So if there truly was truth behind my claim that I dislike social hierarchies, I would decide to not want to find job and mate)?

This is the point where your logic breaks down. You've reduced the options to two, when there are actually so many more ways to live.

You could just as easily choose to work in a solitary profession (as a translator, for instance--your English is excellent) and find a nice Aspie girl (maybe via a dating web site) who is your equal and loves you for yourself. You could makes a few friends who share your egalitarian values and never sacrifice your integrity when forced to deal with heirarchies. That way of living would give you much, much more satisfaction that competing with a bunch of macho NTs every day in your workplace and living with a good-looking NT female who doesn't love the real you.

I know you are right arielhawksquill. Thanks for writing this. It seems to be difficult for me to live the life I am supposed to be living. Having AS in this world is really a weird experience for me.

The notion of alphas came from now discredited research into wolf packs that involved observing packs constructed and observed in captivity, who behaved in ways that wolves do not behave in the wild. It's been generalized to other species (such as baboons and humans) but largely has no valid scientific grounding.

Pickup artists and MRAs love to appeal to the notion of "alpha males" and such but I think they're largely looking for some quality to blame that isn't their own personalities for their dating and relationship difficulties.

Anyway, I believe human social interactions are too complex to easily divide everyone up in alpha/beta/omega/blarg categories. I can get why some autistics are attracted by the idea (it puts "rules" on otherwise inscrutable social goop), but I'm not on board.

The notion of alphas came from now discredited research into wolf packs that involved observing packs constructed and observed in captivity, who behaved in ways that wolves do not behave in the wild. It's been generalized to other species (such as baboons and humans) but largely has no valid scientific grounding.

Pickup artists and MRAs love to appeal to the notion of "alpha males" and such but I think they're largely looking for some quality to blame that isn't their own personalities for their dating and relationship difficulties.