HSP/Asperger's/Empath? What am I?

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Yes, i've had a lot of good experiences with mindfulness.. and marijuana helps to quiet my mind as well. I've been meditating for about 6 months now, and it helps. Seems to extend of my fuse in dealing with people.

Completely disagree, being good at socializing and understanding other people's motives is the exact opposite of autism.



You've got it completely the other way round - people with autism don't lack sympathy. Empathy is understanding how to respond to people in the correct way - understanding them. HSP is the opposite of people with autism.

Most of these blog writers try to redefine autism to fit their own criteria.

Don´t fall for the stereotypes! Aspies have lots of empathy. Many of them just expresses it differently.
What you describe is not unusual.

It's not a stereotype, it's actually one of the central aspects of autism. People with autism have a poor theory of mind, which makes it harder to empathise with other people. Not sympathise, which is what you're probably thinking of, and confusing it with.

Nothing this guy has posted sounds remotely like Asperger Syndrome. Except a few of the OCD-like habits.

Last edited by Acedia on 15 Feb 2014, 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It's so confusing! I struggle to grasp the concepts of 'empathy', 'sympathy', and 'theory of mind', and I suspect I'm incapable of any of those things.

Even in the example I mentioned before, where I can sometimes sense other people's anger, or tension, or anxiety (apparently by psychic powers, because I'm not looking at them)... I feel what they're feeling, but I still don't empathize or sympathize. Basically I find it annoying that they're angry, and I block the feeling because I don't want their negative emotions to affect me.

And if my mom is anxious and worried, I'm mostly just confused, and don't understand why she's worrying about a snowstorm thousands of miles away, that she can't do anything about. So it's a real struggle for me to figure out (using logic) how to respond to her, in a way that she finds helpful and sympathetic.

Basically I'm 'faking' sympathy – except that on a philosophical level I really do want her to be happy, so if she's feeling bad, I want to help her feel better. I'm just missing the steps in between, where I actually understand her emotions, or know how to respond.

As to whether an HSP could be autistic... The biggest problem I see is whether an HSP could have 'deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors'. An HSP definitely has abnormalities in nonverbal communicative behaviors, that can result in significant impairment in functioning – but the word 'deficit' implies 'not enough', whereas in the case of the HSP, they have too much awareness of nonverbal communicative behaviors.

So I see HSP as having the same end result as autism – difficulty socializing because of abnormal sensory awareness – but the abnormality presents itself in opposite ways. And the wording of the DSM-V seems to require specifically a deficit, which might technically disqualify an HSP. (Though if it were up to me personally, I'd change the wording to 'abnormality', because I think HSPs have just as much trouble coping with social situations as autistics do.)

HSP to me just sounds like highly empathic people - essentially completely normal people. People with autism range in severity, some being completely non-verbal, and some having severe issues with social reciprocation, and a higher incidence of intellectual disability and epilepsy.

How can you even compare the two?

Apologies in advance (because I dislike arguing) – but to answer your question:

My point is that 'highly empathic' is not 'normal', and can in fact cause extreme distress.


Of the things you mentioned, the only one required by the actual diagnostic criteria for ASD is 'severe issues with social reciprocation'. And I think it's possible for an HSP to have severe issues, if their sensory input is causing them so much distress that they have to avoid social situations.


I see a lot of overlap in symptoms, thus I make a comparison, because it intrigues me. And yes, in my opinion, HSP is a very real thing, and deserves to be looked at more closely. But that's just my personal opinion, and I respect that you (and the psychiatric profession in general) believe otherwise.

It actually is very normal. Nobody is strange because they're so socially in tune that they understand people viscerally. It's the epitome of being good at socializing. Being shy and introverted may be difficult at times, but it still falls within the realm of normality.



Then they should be given a correct diagnosis of social anxiety.



I don't mind any neurological phenomena being studied, that's good science. But it should be recognized that it's completely normal neurological variation like ASMR and Misophonia. ASMR being a label of what used to be known as people finding softer sounds relaxing, like parents reading their children bedtime stories to help them fall asleep. And Misophonia being the label of what used to be known as getting annoyed with certain sounds. Both are completely normal, and they don't warrant a diagnostic label.

If they in fact meet the criteria for that, that works for me. I guess I'm just concerned that people like the OP are slipping through the cracks, because they have legitimate issues, yet the psychiatric profession doesn't know quite what to do with them.

But if Social Anxiety explains it, and helps them to understand and cope with their issues (the way that understanding autism has helped me immensely) – then my concerns are unfounded.

OK, do you, by "empathy", mean an emotional response/co-suffering, - immediate and independant of any intellectual understanding?
As far as I´ve understood: You feel physical pain, when you see someone hurting themselves = empathy, a biological reaction.
You can see, that someone is unhappy and ask them why, in the hope that you could make them feel better, - and you feel sad FOR them, - but you don´t feel sad for their reason, because you're not that person = Sympathy, a partly intellectual.´
Is that it?

I don't think my social deficit has much to do with reading non-verbal cues. I can read people fine when I'm paying attention. My struggle occurs when I don't feel emotionally connected with people. I always feel like some kind of alien. I can't really stay focused.

Acedia, I am not for a second doubting your diagnosis of Asperger syndrome and I am not trying to attack you in any way. I just want to make what I think is an interesting point in that you and Stitched may be more similar than you think.

This shows use of a theory of mind...

as does this...



This uses a rhetorical question, a common device to manipulate people into follow your argument...



And your language is generally informal and chatty, which fits in well with the rest of the posters in this thread. That shows a pretty reasonable level of social ability...



Do you not think that it is possible that you and Stitched could potentially have a very similar profile of abilities, you are just interpreting it in different ways. Is it not possible that Stitched is focusing on the things he can do (because he is trying to discount a diagnosis) whereas you are concentrating on all the things you can't do, because you have already accepted your diagnosis.

There is a school of thought that suggests Highly Sensitive Persons are confused with social anxiety and introverted people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_sensitive_people. And there is the "Intense World Theory" of autism that thinks autistic traits are caused by over sensitivity. And a school of thought that says hyper empathy in understanding emotions but hypo empathy i understanding motives. These theories are new and not proven. New does not mean it is true, nor does it mean it is false. Conventional wisdom is not automatically correct "Refrigerator Mother Theory" was the consensus theory of Autism a few decades back.

The consensus is all about about what Autistic people lack in part because it s based on observation by mostly non autistic people. The newer theories take into account what autistic people are saying. If a person has repetitive routines, executive function difficulties and all sorts of difficulties with social reciprocity because of what they describe as hyper sensitivity we should diagnose them with social anxiety instead of autism? I agree if they if they are in perfect tune with others that might be something else currently undefined. If it is hyper empathy and sensitivity instead of hypo empathy and sensitivity that is causing people to misread other people causing social reciprocity deficits I don't think we should not diagnose them with Autism.

No, it shows I'm theorizing based on the information I have. I'm familiar with the criteria of autism. So I can see when people are trying to alter that criteria.



A lot of people confuse the two concepts, there is in fact a lot of YouTube videos about empathy and sympathy.



That's what you have inferred, which is what you believe my intentions to be. I'm actually asking a genuine question, as I can't see how the two are related in anyway. So aren't you just projecting?

I've read enough to know what inference and projecting means. I'm not completely lacking in understanding.



Really? I don't know how my writing style comes across. But no, in real life my social ability is very poor. Nothing like how the OP describes himself.



From what was written, no.

But here is me using a bit of theory of mind (correct me if I'm wrong). But isn't your post just a manipulative bit of writing to make me agree that having good social skills and being highly empathic is the same, or can co-exist with being autistic? They're not the same, and they preclude one another. If you have good social skills, and can empathise well, have you ever thought that you have self-diagnosed wrongly?

And the last bit of your post I don't understand.

Last edited by Acedia on 15 Feb 2014, 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

The HSP profile doesn't have those problems, and poor reading of non-verbal cues is something stated by the vast majority of people on the spectrum. As well as difficulty empathising.

I mean how is this:



The same as this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_s ... nteraction


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I don't know that people with autism are poor at reading nonverbal cues. Maybe it appears that way because it's hard to read indirect, contradictory messages.

People with autism can be extremely sensitive, extremely empathic, at times. When it's straightforward. When I get too upset and it's hard to speak, someone with autism tends to be supportive, other people might be at that moment, but I've learned they do judge me harshly for this.

So who really is more empathic?

Maybe as some people think, it's easier to empathize with someone whose mind works similarly to your own. Maybe we are selling ourselves short.

I hope no one is getting hurt in this thread.