Aspergers Motivational Theory

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That sounds just like me too.

Qawer some of your ideas remind me of Thom Hartman's theory about ADHD, have you heard of it?

http://www.thomhartmann.com/articles/20 ... ch-addadhd

It has been backed up with research....

Dianthus, that is very well observed! It is very similar.

The big issue is missing. A successful species need reproduction, and in order to reproduce you need to get together, and being solo leads to zero reproduction, and the demise of a species.

The big cats live solitary lives except during mating season.



[img][800:798]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Panthera_onca.jpg[/img]


I wish I could live like the jaguar, the way I was created. I am in a mental prison in NT society, like a jaguar locked up in cage. It is hurtful. For that reason I cannot properly be my adult self but have to rely partially on my childish self for somewhat accepting the amount of socialization required for living an independent life.

Still confused about what the hell any of this has to do with any kind of theraapy whatsoever....'except NTs are better than people with AS seems to be the theme. So I am confused about where on earth the 'motivational therapy part comes in'? Dont be mentally ill or you are defined as a slave?' WTF I have mental illness and am not a slave. So cool stereo type but no.

Except that humans are not like big cats, and that their children have a prolonged childhood where they need to be protected and teached by parents. This strongly speaks against the idea that Aspies are meant to be solitary. Even if Aspies theoretically could reproduce only during a short mating season, their children would quickly die if left by themselves at an early age.

Other neurodiverse traits also speaks against this idea:
1. Creating a few life-long very strong attachments with somebody of the opposite gender is very common
2. Very few Aspies declare that they want to live completely solitary lifes. Most that do live solitary lives don't do it by choice
3. The neurodiverse courtship ritual seems to be very extensive and long-term, which speaks against brief mating-season get-togethers. Also, it is pretty common to dislike causal sex (especially for female Aspies).



Personally, I wish I could at least once experience my natural courtship ritual in a somewhat natural setting. I have no desire whatsoever to live a solitary life, and seasonal mating with a stranger is really off-putting for me. These are the things done by NTs when they have contraceptives (and the reason for the population explosion when they don't). Aspies in a natural setting have planned reproduction.

But the idea still has merit. In my experience, Aspies in successful relationships with other Aspies have a lot more of "their own time" than is typical. Typically, just having somebody you are attached to nearby seems to be enough for most.

rdos, I agree, I would not want to live a solitary life either, it was more a way of trying to emphasize that I do not want to live an extremely social NT life either. I feel I have been pushed to do just that all my life without "objecting" to it, because I did not know myself properly. I thought what was right for everyone else would also be right for me.

I hate it when people at social gatherings put me into a box, i.e. "ranks" me according to their criteria.

I know there is noone but myself to change it.

Definitely. That could be just great!

I've decided against that as well. It means a lot to me to be able to live a life that is compatible with who I am, and I have been able to do so as well, with a wife and two now adult children. I do know how to get along with NTs, but I have no desire to do so outside of my job or in private necessary contacts. To socialize with NTs just for the sake of it is not something I want to do as I see no point in it.

So that far I think the theory is ok. It just won't explain the natural socialization aspect of Aspies.

There it is... one of your animal spirits. Learn everything you can about the jaguar. It is within you. As in all animal spirits, it chose you, not the other way around. Be its friend. And don't get your leg chomped off in the process.

I think the socialization aspect of aspies is similar to that of domestic cats. Cats that have had (good) human company all of their lives do need company in their lives. Cats that have learned to be social in kittenhood need contact as adult cats. Similar for aspies.

So aspies are social-wise neither like dogs, nor like feral cats, but like domestic cats. They often times need company, but likely not to the extent NTs do.

There are alot of animals that are nomadic. They usually congregate when it is time to feed, and food is plentiful. When it is time to mate, and when the cat nip is ripe. Domestic feral cats around me are almost always in groups. The ones I have seen alone alot are fox, bear, musky, golden eagles, great horned owls, and wild cats are but I have never seen them in the wild before. I have heard them, but never got a look. These are all preditors. So if what you are saying is correct than i would guess that we evolved from meat eating preditors, like Neanderthals or something. I could believe it, because I have the teeth like them. My molars are huge, and if it wasn't for dentists, I would be dead.

Wow. How pertinent to my situation right now.

I'm at a point in my life where I've experienced heavy stress (losing job, death of parents, etc) very recently. I'm currently also feeling super unmotivated to move forward because I am receiving help from the system (government program). I resent this help and I wonder "why?" all the time. I should be grateful and consider myself lucky. Instead I am sabotaging this "gift" and failing to complete the tasks. This help that I've been given is the chance to go back to school fulltime with it being paid for - as long as I receive the grades and finish by a specific time period. I have always been a good student (a bit of procrastinator, but always pulled through) with A's and B's as grades, but find myself unwilling to do the work required to do well. I am interested in the subjects and do want to finish my degree - BUT I have this overwhelming feeling that I want to do it by myself and don't like to be under the "thumb" of this system that is "helping" me. It feels like an enormous pressure to do it not for myself, but for someone else. I have to fill out forms and be monitored. I deeply, deeply resent this process. I'm thinking of quitting because of the stress and the fact that I'm failing anyway, but I feel bad about quitting because that is not how I normally deal with things, either! I worry about what others will think of me. I worry that 20 years from now I'll be mad at myself for not taking this "free" money. Grrr, it gives me so much anxiety.

I have always had a bit of a clash with authority and my managers if I'm not left alone to do my work without micro-managing. I've gotten lucky that I've pretty much excelled at my work and haven't had too many actual clashes, it's always been me working to avoid it very well. I do recognize the tendency to revolt against authority as a natural quick-response in my brain.

I also avoid "going with the crowd" excessively and have been kind of arrogant about it. I think "why can't more people think for themselves?"

These are all categories that seem to support your theory. I'm actually a bit relieved that I'm not alone in this because I often feel very, very alone sometimes.

I am dependent entirely on intrinsic motivation. Rewards don't work. Punishments don't work. Physical force only makes me want to fight back.

On the other hand, tell me *why* doing something is useful, show me that it's interesting, or give me an opportunity to do things that are worthwhile, things that matter, and I will not need anyone to monitor or supervise me.

I am not the only one who's like this. In fact, it's a well-known psychological fact that if you reward someone for doing something, they start to value that activity less and less. If you withdraw the reward, they no longer want to do that activity--even if they found it interesting for its own sake before they were first rewarded. In order to keep them doing the activity you want them to do, you have to keep rewarding them, which would be a solution if it weren't that repeated rewards gradually lose their value. Give me an ice cream cone once, and I'll enjoy it; I may do an undesirable task in order to get it. Give me an ice cream cone every day for a year, and it will be routine, and will no longer be a motivator.

Human beings can be reward-motivated, but it's only reliable if the reward involves fulfilling their basic needs--that is, their need to have enough to eat, to be warm, to sleep, to safe, and to be free from pain. After that, reward is no longer a very good motivator. The more you reward, the less the task is valued, until by the time you get to creative pursuits and learning, reward is practically worthless except for its value as feedback from a teacher. Worse than worthless, actually. Reward someone for doing something, and you're saying, "The only reason to do this is to get the reward." Reward a child for cleaning their room, and they'll be slower to learn how useful it is to organize one's things. Reward a child for doing math homework, and they won't realize how interesting math can be. Reward a child for talking, and it will be much longer before he realizes how nice it is to exchange information with others.

This perspective on motivation is part of why I believe ABA is so damaging to autistic children. Yes, it works at first--while the reward is so desirable that it cannot be ignored. But it also teaches those children that the activity they are being taught is undesirable, that it is only worthwhile as a way to get the reward. Children taught via ABA lose motivation to learn because they lose the curiosity and enjoyment of learning that is natural to young children. Motivation can be regained by rewarding them only with basic needs--by making food, comfort, and freedom from pain contingent on compliance.

Emphasizing grades for neurotypical children is already bad enough. ABA grades your every movement. The effect is to teach children how to hate learning.

School doesn't do it for me. A man is a man when he has a hammer in his hand. If I need to learn something, I will. I will not stop until it is done. I have a few projects in a million pieces that are left alone, but those are waiting for the future.