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Sweetleaf
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23 Apr 2014, 9:41 am

You should also accept that lots of the problems many of us face do correlate with the Aspergers as well though...and not everyone has all of those same problems. Also sure everyones probably ran into bullying....but most people are not consistently bullied throughout school for being 'different' or 'a bit off'. Not getting a date when someone wants isn't something specific to people with Aspergers, though having the disorder might make it less likely to get one....but anyone aspie or not is probably going to feel a bit down if they are looking for a relationship and can't find anyone.

Anyways can't speak for everyone but I have been a victim of endless bullying and being singled out by teachers....as well as some other things, don't see much use in denying that..........especially since it has done me a fair amount of mental health damage, so yeah sometimes I get caught up thinking like 'why did this all have to happen to me' but mostly I just try and live my life the best I can and try not to be sucked into past memories that sucked. As a child though I wasn't diagnosed so I never did attribute problems to possible autism, though that actually did contribute in a lot of situations.

Of course many people off the spectrum have terrible problems in their lives....and may be going though horrid things I myself have never experienced...so I never take on the view that aspies have it so much worse than everyone else and neurotypicals all just have it easy.


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Sweetleaf
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23 Apr 2014, 9:47 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
However, one HAS to transcend past bullying, and prove to the world they could be a success, despite a 'difference."


Why should someone in that position have to prove anything to the world? And what if they never end up being a 'success'? Though I am not entirely sure what you'd define as a success.


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23 Apr 2014, 10:36 am

Jensen wrote:
I would say, that perhaps the nature/focus of the bullying of AS/autistic children and youths is different.
The common (and just as harmful) subjects in bullying goes on looks, family status, who´s in and who´s out.
The bullying of AS children is often different beacuse of their naivity. They are often lured into doing things, other children wouldn´t let themselves be talked into, or let themselves be cheated/manipulated - and are made a laughing stock afterwards.


Yes, this is discussed in at least some of the literature. I recall it being discussed in Tony Attwood's Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome.

And I mean I experienced a lot of this myself, and didn't realize in some cases that I was being bullied or manipulated until later. Sometimes, much much later.

As far as transcending past bullying, it's hard when the bullying contributes to traumatic rewiring of your brain. That doesn't mean you can't ever be a success, though, nor is transcending things in general needed to be a success (whatever success means in this context).



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23 Apr 2014, 10:52 am

About the original post, remember that in a forum you don't see the whole person or everything about him or her. It's possible that this is where some might come to vent frustration and stuff like that but in the other areas of their lives they could be very different. So to say that people have a victim complex might be a little premature if you don't really know the person. I understand what you are saying though but it's possible that we don't have a complete picture of them here so they could vent a lot here and still not have an actual victim complex.


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littlebee
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23 Apr 2014, 12:06 pm

***
To the op--I have made this kind of comment before and people did not like it, but this is what I genuinely believe and have observed to be true, and this is not.to discount any real bullying which actually occurred and probably much more toward autistic people than some others, as people generally pick on someone who is different:

Online this tendency is exaggerated because the imagination tends to ramp up in a situation where there are less physical signals and also less resistance to the emotional flow when speaking (by writing), but I will not go into this now.

The key point is that this common griping and fighting against a common enemy, such as nt's facilitates group organization at a certain primitive level in that some participants bond together to fight a common enemy, and this kind of comfort produces an actual hormonal effect which is extremely gratifying, especially to those who are not experiencing this good feeling in their ordinary lives and are hungering for it. (I have been criticized for the use of the word primitive in this context, so I want to make it clear that by primitive I am not saying the people are primitive, but what is meant is a rudimentary group organization that is not sophisticated I got the use of the words "primitive" and "sophisticated" in this context from a certain whacjo but not entirely whacko psycho analyst, Bion, who extensively studied and then wrote about group organization.)

Thirdly, to a person who has suffered and is suffering, especially super sensitive people with unique brains (like myself), interspersed negatives which are an essential part of positive reinforcement can begin to take on a kind of life of their own, such as tending to see the glass as half empty rather than half full. I speak from my own personal experience in this regard--seeing things in this way can become an insidious habit pattern, which, again, bonding with a group to fight others such as so-called nt's can temporarily seem to alleviate the subliminal pervasive suffering of, but actually only serves to reinforce it.

This is not to imply that that people should not bond together in times of distress to fight common enemies, but rather to say that in certain instances it can deflect energy from looking at oneself and ones own responses and working on oneself from this very important direction. I have heard a few people imply that many others have left WP because people here are not bonding together and staying on focus to fight this so called common enemy of "the NT's" or"society":-) but I have long suspected that the vast majority of people who leave WP do it for the exact opposite reason, because so many people are bonding together to do this rather than trying to help each other begin to sort out their own perceptual difficulties.



Last edited by littlebee on 23 Apr 2014, 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Apr 2014, 12:14 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Jensen wrote:
I would say, that perhaps the nature/focus of the bullying of AS/autistic children and youths is different.
The common (and just as harmful) subjects in bullying goes on looks, family status, who´s in and who´s out.
The bullying of AS children is often different beacuse of their naivity. They are often lured into doing things, other children wouldn´t let themselves be talked into, or let themselves be cheated/manipulated - and are made a laughing stock afterwards.


Yes, this is discussed in at least some of the literature. I recall it being discussed in Tony Attwood's Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome.

And I mean I experienced a lot of this myself, and didn't realize in some cases that I was being bullied or manipulated until later. Sometimes, much much later.

As far as transcending past bullying, it's hard when the bullying contributes to traumatic rewiring of your brain. That doesn't mean you can't ever be a success, though, nor is transcending things in general needed to be a success (whatever success means in this context).



I had always been pressured by other kids into doing things and keep on egging me to do it and guess who always got in trouble?

I also don;t understand how you can still get in trouble with the law for telling someone to do something illegal such as hiring someone to kill your spouse for you but yet when kids tell a special needs child to do something that is wrong, they don't get in trouble for it and the special needs kid does. Double standard. Isn't being a kid all about learning right from wrong so a consequence should occur? Like when a kid steals, the parent handles it themselves than involving the police or when a kid does sexual harassment, it's supposed to be handled with a consequence like a privilege taken away than police being called and the kid being arrested for it. Same as for assault when a kid hits.


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marshall
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23 Apr 2014, 12:43 pm

littlebee wrote:
***
To the op--I have made this kind of comment before and people did not like it, but this is what I genuinely believe and have observed to be true, and this is not.to discount any real bullying which actually occurred and probably much more toward autistic people than some others, as people generally pick on someone who is different:

Online this tendency is exaggerated because the imagination tends to ramp up in a situation where there are less physical signals and also less resistance to the emotional flow when speaking (by writing), but I will not go into this now.

The key point is that this common griping and fighting against a common enemy, such as nt's facilitates group organization at a certain primitive level in that some participants bond together to fight a common enemy, and this kind of comfort produces an actual hormonal effect which is extremely gratifying, especially to those who are not experiencing this good feeling in their ordinary lives and are hungering for it. (I have been criticized for the use of the word primitive in this context, so I want to make it clear that by primitive I am not saying the people are primitive, but what is meant is a rudimentary group organization that is not sophisticated I got the use of the words "primitive" and "sophisticated" in this context from a certain whacjo but not entirely whacko psycho analyst, Bion, who extensively studied and then wrote about group organization.)

Thirdly, to a person who has suffered and is suffering, especially super sensitive people with unique brains (like myself), interspersed negatives which are an essential part of positive reinforcement can begin to take on a kind of life of their own, such as tending to see the glass as half empty rather than half full. I speak from my own personal experience in this regard--seeing things in this way can become an insidious habit pattern, which, again, bonding with a group to fight others such as so-called nt's can temporarily seem to alleviate the subliminal pervasive suffering of, but actually only serves to reinforce it.

This is not to imply that that people should not bond together in times of distress to fight common enemies, but rather to say that in certain instances it can deflect energy from looking at oneself and ones own responses and working on oneself from this very important direction. I have heard a few people imply that many others have left WP because people here are not bonding together and staying on focus to fight this so called common enemy of "the NT's" or"society":-) but I have long suspected that the vast majority of people who leave WP do it for the exact opposite reason, because so many people are bonding together to do this rather than trying to help each other begin to sort out their own perceptual difficulties.


Even if some tendencies are true, the phrase "victim complex" has been taken over and used by too many people who just want to put others down and dismiss struggles that are very real. The phrase isn't helpful as anything but a dismissive putdown, in a vein similar to "get over it" or "everyone has problems". I could also happen that some people's issues are misunderstood and dismissed so many times that they become hardened. After a while you become skeptical of everyone. It's not that you don't want help, it's that you don't trust anyone to be understanding or caring enough to truly want to help. I think the internet is a sh***y place overall as people make snap judgements towards people they don't really know. People tend to be more open with their feelings because they have the safety of being anonymous, but just because someone writes a lot on a particular topic on a particular board, doesn't mean that's who they are as a whole.



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23 Apr 2014, 12:57 pm

Sweetleaf:

Hi there. What I meant was: I believe one must not let bullying interfere with the realization of one's potential. I, myself, believe in showing the world that bullying isn't going to stop ME.

I've endured quite a bit of bullying, for various reasons. I still do, to a certain extent.

I define "success" as the realization of one's potential.



Sweetleaf
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23 Apr 2014, 1:21 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Sweetleaf:

Hi there. What I meant was: I believe one must not let bullying interfere with the realization of one's potential. I, myself, believe in showing the world that bullying isn't going to stop ME.

I've endured quite a bit of bullying, for various reasons. I still do, to a certain extent.

I define "success" as the realization of one's potential.


Well unfortunately for me it effected me in such a way I am not so sure I will ever reach this full potential though I don't know because I don't even know what my full potential would be...but it wasn't something I chose to 'let' happen its how I was affected as much as I tried not to 'let' it effect me it still screwed up my mental health. Of course that was just part of the problem there are other things that happened which contributed to problems I have.

Also though if I reach what I would consider success, I wouldn't be doing it to prove anything to anyone else...otherwise I'd have no motivation.


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littlebee
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23 Apr 2014, 1:26 pm

Marshall, will respond to more of your message later, maybe, but yeah, the term victims complex isn't that good. My concern in what I wrote is the imo distorted focus this community organization around such a focus tends to create and reinforce. Yes, it is completely understandable that people might come to have such a focus..I think I covered that in my message.



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23 Apr 2014, 3:19 pm

I don't consider getting bullied a normal part of life at all. Although I think part of the problem is that many people confuse being bullied and being picked on- they are two very different things. If a few kids at school tease you, that's not the same thing as being physically attacked, constantly harassed, having your personal belongings stolen or destroyed just for fun, etc. - that's what I consider bullying, and in my case it wasn't just one or two mean kids who acted that way, it was pretty much the whole school, because I was singled out as that one kid everyone has seemingly collectively decided to hate so they can feel better than someone. It also, unlike a typical getting-picked-on situation, wasn't just for a short time and then they moved on to the next target; it went on for years until I left the school system. I'm not here trying to say I'm a victim and anyone should feel sorry for me; I actually feel strong for having survived that and gone on to have a successful and happy life, but I know that what I went through was not a normal part of growing up, not something that happens to everyone, and not something that should just be shrugged off and treated as okay in a kids-will-be-kids kind of way.



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23 Apr 2014, 3:32 pm

diablo77 wrote:
I don't consider getting bullied a normal part of life at all. Although I think part of the problem is that many people confuse being bullied and being picked on- they are two very different things. If a few kids at school tease you, that's not the same thing as being physically attacked, constantly harassed, having your personal belongings stolen or destroyed just for fun, etc. - that's what I consider bullying, and in my case it wasn't just one or two mean kids who acted that way, it was pretty much the whole school, because I was singled out as that one kid everyone has seemingly collectively decided to hate so they can feel better than someone. It also, unlike a typical getting-picked-on situation, wasn't just for a short time and then they moved on to the next target; it went on for years until I left the school system. I'm not here trying to say I'm a victim and anyone should feel sorry for me; I actually feel strong for having survived that and gone on to have a successful and happy life, but I know that what I went through was not a normal part of growing up, not something that happens to everyone, and not something that should just be shrugged off and treated as okay in a kids-will-be-kids kind of way.


^this!

look at how many young people who are being systematically bullied at school are committing suicide--is that a normal part of growing up?? does everyone go through that? should everyone?

normalising bullying as some sort of "rite of passage that we all need to go through to become grown-ups" is not the answer--teaching compassion and tolerance for differences to children IS, however.



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23 Apr 2014, 3:37 pm

OP, I think you are overlooking that many WP posters don't have close friends with whom they can let off steam, some are very isolated, and WP is the only place for many members to voice their frustrations - minor though they may seem to you. The alternative is bottling things up and silencing the self. Well, voicelessness plus isolation is a road to despair and depression. You are being too harsh IMO, and very judgmental. I don't think there are any perfect people on WP, nor on the other planet either.

One of WP's (great) functions is being a place for validation, acceptance, support - both given and received - in a spirit of tolerance for the struggles that come with being on the spectrum. Some of these are large, others small. But they all add up to a sum total of extra stress. Please don't add to it with shaming comments.



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23 Apr 2014, 4:11 pm

The way I read it is he's not telling people not to speak, but more sharing his feelings about what he pe4rceive to be a preoccupation for some with it....and he seems to be asking a question about something he does not completely understand.

But imo you are in effect telling him not to speak by implying he is shaming people, and by doing this you are even subtly shaming him. I think enquiring into the kind of idea he is bringing up can be a facet that is very helpful. I do think the way the op phrased his original message for a little bit too black and white, but this aside, he raises a good question. Why IS it so hard to put some of this stuff regarding past negative experiences aside? .The problem is, op, the way you have worded this tends to have made it sound more like a rhetorical question than a real question, though I am not sure if this was intended. I think it should be a real question and is an important question.



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23 Apr 2014, 4:18 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
I was reading a few threads tonight.. and It seems quite common here for people to have a victim complex.

I mean saying things like "I was geeky at school and got bullied", "I didn't date until my 20s" "I had pimples" "I asked a girl out and she said "no"


Those are just matter of fact statements about reality, I don't take any of that to be having a victim complex.



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23 Apr 2014, 4:47 pm

B19, I just happened to see this message you wrote on another thread: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp6025963.html#6025963 .
Very impressive, and maybe I will comment there, but the point I am making is that people are just sharing what they think and feel and contrast and looking at different ideas can be very helpful in sorting things out and also building up some kind of muscle.I have been for several years in a 12 Step program I really loved, Alanon, but it can become limiting as people are only allowed to approach in a certain context and from a certain angle. I think that here there needs to be a little more flexibility here and even that contrast will help to some degree in generating compassion, which is why I appreciate your original message. Without it I could not write what I write or begin to have a broader understanding. Actually, in this regard, I love your message on this thread here.