Aspergers and victim complex

Post Reply New Topic

I assumed this shower guy was just a person that you just made up to illustrate what you were talking about. So the whole time you and some others here were cross-talking about an actual person who is on this system and might be reading this??? if so, imo that is toxic and very dysfunctional behavior. Tell me I am reading this message wrong and the shower guy is a hypothetical person, not a real one,

Yes people whine, use excuses, and say "poor poor me" when they have the ability to "bootstrap" their way out of their troubles or at least be in a better situation. And some of the greater then 80,000 members at Wrong Planet fit that description. That is stating the obvious.

The words "victim complex" as well similar type of expressions are said by bullies to purposely invalidate peoples real problems. It is also used by the ignorant who while trying to help people unintentionally invalidate peoples real problems. That is probably also obvious.

What might not have been obvious to Hale_Bopp the OP is that many if not a large majority of members have had these type words thrown at them intentionally or out or ignorance repeatedly causing all sorts of pain and mental damage. Because of this creating a thread around the words "victim complex" thus became a strong trigger.

People assumed Hale was yet another bully trying to invalidate them. I don't believe that was her intent. Hale is an aspie and thus is likely to have deficits in understanding the motives and feelings of her fellow WP members. In other words Hale did what most of us have done more times then we care to remember.

The movie is simply called "Gaslight". It can be watched for free on Youtube. The psychopatic husband is played by a chilling Charles Boyer.

And bullies have deficits in understanding, too, and have probably been bullied themselves, which is where they learned to do it, so what you have written is in this sense is a self-negating comment. Just give those bullies some slack.. (mild scarcasm intended:-)=_

That bullies have deficits understanding and have been bullied themselves is a blanket statement (My bullies seemed to have had enough understanding to exploit my weaknesses).

I noticed that Hale wrote that she had worded things incorrectly and learned a few things. She also repeated several times that her comments were not directed at real victims. To me these were confirmation she was not intending to hurt people. To me that is morally very different then bullies who intentionally engage in sadistic acts multiple times. One of my motives in replying was attempt to explain to her why in my opinion her words received repeated negative reactions. I also hope that a possible explanation might ease the pain of those whose feelings were hurt. It's part of the forum group behavior that you are interested in.

Pretty sure the shower thing is a very valid example.
There are people I think of to do with this, but no, this was not about "someone" specific.

Even if it was about someone, I don't see how it's dysfunctional and toxic. Everyone talks about people. People talk about me all the time. No-one mentioned any names here.

It does indeed upset me because these key words have been used in my past by my abusers. My whole reason for replying was in hopes that hale_bopp would understand that even though her intentions may be good, the wording did not necessarily reflect that. It's true she did say she learned a few things and that she probably worded things poorly. I hope that if she did learn something, it's positive and not negative.

I've actually seen a couple guys post about it over the years, so it's not a particular one that stands out, it's just a general thing that some guys post about here.

Also, littlebee, how would it be toxic to mention something he posted himself and was discussed at length on the L&D forum? The one that comes to mind to me is one that I kept trying to encourage but he just wouldn't listen. I usually try to encourage people and tell them that I think they can do something, I don't say it like "yeah well if you did xyz then your problem would be solved". I tell people to start out with small things, just maybe one little thing a day and see if it doesn't make them feel a little better. Sometimes people do it but other times people just refuse. Something as simple as just saying "hi" to one person a day when you are out, no matter how uncomfortable that makes you, can go a long way to getting you used to talking to people. Making yourself shower even though you hate it goes a real long way in making you feel better and also smell better. I know that I HATE to shower, so I'm in and out in ten minutes, but once I've done it I feel so much better.

I never downplay that stuff as really easy and simple, sometimes it's very, very hard to do. The thing is, the more you do it, the easier it gets. And even just a little improvement can go a long way in helping somebody feel better. I'm not saying that people should just buy right into what I (or anybody else) tells them to do that can help the situation, I'm saying that when people refuse to consider that they could be wrong and maybe somebody else might be right, that's when it's a problem.

The thing that bothers me is that people have so much energy to complain about random people on the internet not acting on your advice. I could understand if you were talking about people you personally know, but people on the internet? You can't possibly know them well enough to know exactly what they need to do. If people whining on the internet makes you uncomfortable, just avoid those threads. It's not like these people are actually in your life. If they were people literally coming to you to complain in real life, your frustration of having to listen to them all the time would be understandable. Complaining about people whining on the internet comes across as very high-and-mighty, i.e. its being highly opinionated about the lives of people you don't really know or care about just for the hell of it. There's a high likelihood the people you criticize for "whining" will be way more hurt by your insensitive words than you are "annoyed" by voluntarily reading their posts. That's the injustice of it. That's the part people who do this don't seem to get. If your life is so easy that you have the energy to be massively upset over people not listening to your advice over the internet, count your blessings. Go live by your own advice and quit your bitching. Don't want people on the internet bringing you down? Don't read their damn posts.

Sorry. I got confused when I read (I think) something about the person starting a new thread every couple of days. That would mean he just posted such a thread two days ago and now will do so maybe today (or maybe not today after he has been reading all of this:-) I am laughing at mysefl when I write this...Literal aspie thinking on my part, which I just slipped into...

As far as being toxic and dysfunctional, if the person is very active on the system and so is reading this, I think it might be. Cross talking about a person in front of him talking about his specific problem and not including him is imo a form of discounting and bullying someone, but it appears after you explained that in this case that is not happening. If someone made a thread about it once years ago or something, then that would be different.

But to the people who are interpreting these kind of generalizations as personal and getting all bent out of shape, imo this is toxic to yourselves, and I think you are blowing things way out of proportion, which is dysfunctional.

Tp halle_bopp. I don't think your thread was that well worded, but I don't think the wording was so bad, either. I very easily got the gist or what you were trying to say, and several others did, too. In short I completely get the point you are trying to make, but there is a question arising for me about the functional value of talking in general about people who have this kind of problem, as it probably does not have that much of an effect of changing them. If I write any further on this thread, this is the angle I would like to enquire into. One of the main purposes of communication is to sort stuff out and clarify in regard to ones own thinking and also to understand other people's point of view better, and this thread has accomplished that for me, at least a little.

Maybe it bothers people because once they start talking to them and trying to help, they actually start caring about them. Just because it's typed doesn't mean it's not real people behind the screen.

I know someone (NT) who has a manipulative ex husband that keeps going on and off being nice then being a jerk and making her pay his bills. I have told her countless times that she should be suing for child care costs and child support, but she just doesn't seem to want to do it. I even offered to draft the legal forms but she keeps putting it off. Maybe I'm just too "black and white" and interpret the ex husbands behaviour as asinine and close off any empathy for him when things go wrong for him. I write off his misfortunes as karma and get frustrated when my friend goes to help him. I'm on the spectrum and she's not, yet I have a loving spouse who feels the same way I do about her situation. I just want to yell get off your butt, stop feeling sorry for yourself, and nail his butt to the wall in court and show no mercy....he's a bully and deserves whatever misfortune comes his way. My husband agrees with that. During the past several years I have had the mentality of stop feeling sorry for myself and it landed me a good job whereas I'm one of the senior employees and I have a wonderful husband who loves me and respects me. Sometimes it's just our attitudes sometimes mixed in with luck that determines who we are. I sometimes still have nightmares and flashbacks of being mistreated in school, but I block them out by forcing my mind to come back to the present and focus on what I'm doing.

Expressing annoyance tends to negate any assumption that there's actual caring. It just looks high-and-mighty, and stubborn. Getting annoyed makes it appear you think the solution is easier than it is for them. It's hard to form an accurate assessment over the internet. You only know what the person communicated to you. They might have already tried your advice, or they might not have. They might not try because they're afraid it won't work. I'll admit this happens to me. Call it a "victim complex" or call it anxiety avoidance. In any case, positive encouragement is way more likely to help than acting annoyed and saying things that shame the person. If nothing you say helps and they just repeat the same complaints over and over, then they are likely just expressing frustration and don't necessarily want practical advice. In that case someone on the internet isn't likely to help. They just want to feel heard so they can temporarily feel less alone. Seeking sympathy shouldn't be considered shameful just because it doesn't solve the problem. You know what happens when people are continuously shamed for seeking sympathy? They get bitter and angry instead. They blame other people because they're tired of people taking advantage of their vulnerability by attacking them for it. When people constantly feel attacked they tend to attack back.

I agree, but its not a hate thing to me....you know I just think people need to take this into account, no ones perfect so people who have done that aren't bad people per say.....but yeah it does make one come off as a jerk. But yeah just like you can't assume everything about someones life over the internet....if someone comes off as a jerk with a post it doesn't actually mean they are constantly a jerk.

Yeah I never remember the names of old movies I've watched except I do remember The African Queen or whatever....now that's a great movie to not about gaslighting or anything obviously.

It doesn't change how people feel just because you assume they feel a different way. So, you don't ever get annoyed with people you care about? It also doesn't matter whether you think it looks high and mighty or stubborn or whatever. If I give somebody advice, I'm really trying to help them and I obviously care enough to sit down and type it out.

You mention positive encouragement like it's something nobody ever does who ends up annoyed with somebody. You keep giving someone positive encouragement over and over and over and yet they get more and more bitter the more you try to encourage them. When someone blows off a logical solution by saying "It won't do any good" over, and over, and doesn't give you a reason why they can't or won't try it, it pretty much gives you the impression that they don't really want a solution, they just want people to feel sorry for them. There is a difference between wishing you had a viable solution to your problem and complaining about the lack of one and just wanting to complain about the problem so you get attention and pity for it, and people are on your side against whatever it is you seem to think is the root of your problem. Eventually you get frustrated with them and realize that they don't really want help, they just want people to pretty much give them permission to not work on the problem and absolve them from everything related to it. That's where it becomes victim mentality instead of a real victim. When the main goal of complaining is to get people to agree with you that you couldn't fix the problem thats bothering you, rather than seeking a solution or speaking out about your problem and the real reasons why you can't fix it so that maybe somebody else can avoid that situation themselves, it becomes victim mentality. Sure, it's normal and natural to complain about something you can't fix, even if it's just go vent. That's normal. That's healthy. But when it becomes an ongoing theme, then it's victim mentality.