Two questions

Post Reply New Topic

I have read a few stories like yours and that is why I wish that people could be seen and observed the way that I was. I know that it's probably unrealistic that people could be and I was very very lucky to find out the way that I did. But sometimes I really wonder if a doctor who is just seeing you for a couple of hours and just has you fill out a test can really make an extremely thorough and accurate judgement. When I was being observed I did not know I was being observed. So he was able to see me in my most natural state interacting with others and with my environment over a very long period of time. He also got to know me personally and talked to me about all kinds of things over that time of initial observation.

I wonder if there is a way that the diagnostic process could be changed so that people can be observed in their natural interactions outside of a clinical setting. Maybe setting up a home camera to record how they are at home or giving them an audio recording device to wear so that conversations and "social" situations could be recorded over time for review. Or maybe having people keep blogs or diaries to give doctors a more thorough insight on their daily lives.

There is one narrative brought up in self-diagnosis threads about diagnosed autistic people wanting to be a special club of "real" autistics who want to exclude others like self-diagnosed people.

In the minds of most people who question self-diagnosis, I don't think that is true.
I am not interested in being in that club.
I am only interested in questioning self-diagnosis.

I think the fundamental problem is that Wrong Planet, like most internet forums, is mainly populated by people who have no real interest in logic or debating ideas properly.

In such environments, the majority viewpoint always wins. This is what you have observed in your descriptions of certain pervasive narratives.

Which would you prefer?
1. A forum on which everyone agreed with you, but was unable/uninterested in having a logical or thorough discussion with you
2. A forum on which everyone disagreed with you, but took the time to argue with you rationally and intelligently.

I'm guessing, that like me, you'd prefer the latter. In other words, I suspect its not really peoples beliefs that bother you, or the range of diagnoses/lack of diagnosis on here. But rather, its that fact that people don't engage with your beliefs and ideas in a logical or rational way.

Actually its the general lack of logic on here that makes me suspect many people of not being genuine AS . But then I'm not diagnosed myself so its really not my place to comment.

Why? This is not part of the diagnostic criteria.

I agree, I'm also not interested in excluding people or creating (or belonging to) a clique or club but in questioning the practice of diagnosing oneself with any developmental or mental condition.

I think the absence of logical reasoning capabilities would make me question the ability of someone to self-diagnosis.

Why? So, while I haven't read through the DSM-V (other than the diagnostic criteria for ASD), I have read through many portions of the DSM-IV. And, there is a lot of IF-THEN-ELSE logic and PRECEDENCE rules (that if someone was unable to follow, would lead to a misdiagnosis).

Heck, I was talking to my therapist the other day about some of my obsessive compulsive tendencies and explained why I could not be diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) due to some EXCEPTION rules. She expressed some doubts. She then opened up DSM-IV (she had both versions, but opened this up, because it was convenient) and begin reading diagnostic criteria for Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD), which is quite different. And, this was a professional who did her dissertation on Autism in children.

My point being is that the DSM is a rule-based system. And if you lack enhanced logic processing capabilities, there is a likelihood that you will come out with the wrong answer.

As a note, I am fairly certain I would be diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder plus some Anxiety Disorder plus Sensory Processing Disorder (which is not a disorder described in DSM) plus Executive Functioning Disorder (which is not a disorder described in DSM) had I not been diagnosed with Aspergers.

That makes sense, but foxfield's comment expresses doubt that logically-impaired people have AS, rather than doubt that logically-impaired people can accurately self-diagnose. The former would apply to all diagnoses, professional or otherwise.

Yeah - I realized that (foxfield's comment, as written, were invalid from a diagnostic criteria perspective).

I just wrote what I wrote because it's something that's been on my mind lately

Doubting a self-diagnosis is calling the other person a moron or liar.
Black & White thinking of insisting upon a doctor opinion, is elevating doctors to superhuman status.

Anything Autism related has a remarkably huge number of symptoms especially compared to nearly all other medical situations, there is a tremendous amount confirmation available.
And each of these symptoms has an intensity, which allows far more confirmation.

Now information about the many symptoms, varying definitions, and the huge quantities of examples all make up a very large and diffuse cloud of information even on the web.

To navigate this cloud, to research a significant portion thoroughly, to then organize it, and understand it enough to even attempt an self-diagnosis- would require the persistence, patience, focus, attention to detail and organization skills of Aspie* with a new special interest.

In my opinion, doing that alone is enough of a confirmation to start looking for answers and solutions in that direction.

Who cares about "doctor approved diagnoses," it's just paper. We all want solutions to our major life difficulties.
Nobody mails you a new car just because you say your Autistic. So most people aren't going to do this just to "be cool."

Please don't try to play the NT game of sophistry, "Have to have diagnosis or blah blah or without it you can't blah blah..."
We all know that we can be proactive with our own life solutions without having to wait for some white-coat to get back from golfing in Tahiti to write us a note.

This really annoys the hell outta me because it's a hypocritical, elitist, double standard that has a tendency to scare people off from attempting to improve their own lives -meaning it limits information and help, and that just makes it Dark Ages material.

Why does anyone apparently believe that a person can be right about any other topic in the realm of human knowledge, INCLUDING whether their brother, or boyfriend, or acquaintance may be Autistic, but they must be wrong about this one tiny bit of information even though they've spent more time and spent it more thoroughly with themselves than anyone else has on the face of the planet.


"They're dead...."
"Are you a Doctor?"




* or what ever phrase or initials one desires.

Yes

exactly,have explained this often on here and elsewhere, its below or beyond seventy that says whether someone is HFA or LFA, our inteligence
affects our basic functioning and presentation of autism but it doesnt automaticaly mean someone lacks smarts;or in the opposite direction; lacking social abilities and hygeine skills is not what LFA means either.

as for the original topic,we have had two extremely contrversial infamous members here in the past; droopy and john best jr ,they were allowed free speech of their beliefs as long as they stuck to the rules, the community just got on with it;that isnt the close minded view of WP being given in the OP.
its not the fault of wrong planet for having more popular beliefs as some groups naturaly have a lot more representation, parents dont speak for those of us under the LFA spectrum;they may advocate but they arent our voice-they will never understand what its like to be us, they just know what its like to be a parent which is a very different view of autism.

carly is just one of many LFAs,who is to say her beliefs of her autism havent been flavoured by her parents attitudes? mine was a belief of self hatred for being a burden on everyone until had reached well into adulthood and had been pro cure up to that point;that belief was purely because had learned it from parents and those around self as well as society in general.

This really confuses me. My IQ is higher than yours, but you seem at least as smart as me - and often much wiser.

hi wozeree!
smarts and IQ are different beasts.
on the NHS/SS intelectual disability service user panel am on-every person has smarts,one lady for example has moderate downs but is very smart in horoscope type stuff to the point of being like savantism.

for self,it probably comes from having seen the adult world from toddler age,with mums alcoholism and the violence it triggered plus dads trigger happy physical abuse for all behaviors and impairments of mine, am a lot more open minded about the world in that sense.

I don't know, I think there is too much censorship on WP. I think sometimes unpopular opinions do get suppressed, like threads about self-diagnosis and over/mis-diagnosis getting locked before anyone breaks any rules.

I disagree.

I think the proper question to ask is, “What is the process that was used to perform the evaluation and come up with that diagnosis?”

I would ask that not only of someone who was self-diagnosed, but also someone who has had a professional diagnosis. Because, there is no standard methodology for doing the diagnosis.

One can easily imagine a very rigorous self-diagnosis process that can stand up to scrutiny.

Ultimately, none of this matters. As I doubt there are a lot of self-diagnosed individuals that go around telling people they are autistic. Just as I doubt there are a lot of professionally diagnosed individuals doing the same. Only on WP.

it might be different now compared to back then daydreamer,and it probably depends on what moderator is on at the time as they all operate a bit differently with their ethics,but those two [droopy,JBJ] were/are full on anti autism and profound pro curists,one of which publicaly bullied amanda baggs often....eventualy....they got banned along with all their eventual sockpuppets,we have also had one member fataly shoot their neighbours and themselves after getting wound up by members who publicaly bullied him on his spelling,WP mods are the same as us they have the added barrier of being autistic to some degree,they can make mistakes and theres a thin line between what is under moderation,what is in the middle and what is over moderation.

itd be nice to have all opinions aired,if we all just spoke with respect in mind of others differences, obviously itd never happen but maybe if we had one board on here where it was only accessible by agreeing to a disclaimer and any bullshterry towards others such as saying all LFAs need curing or HFAs dont have real autism woud be banned from that board,however;saying they wish their own child with LFA was cured or they believe their aspie child or themselves dont have autism is a different thing.
its nice to learn about different views but also help others to understand what its like from different views as well,but because of the nature of autism and anxiety people here can think theyre always right and get wound up to easy.