Difference between Social Communication Disorder and PDD-NOS

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limping2victory
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02 May 2014, 9:45 am

Social Communication Disorder was created recently and was included in the most recent DSM. It was described as Autism Lite by John Elder Robison. It sounds kind of like PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified), is it? I still don't understand why it's seperate, how it is different than Autism. Is it just a new name for PDD-NOS and if not, how is it different? Does anyone understand this well enough and can explain it to me? :?:



sanahasacat
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02 May 2014, 10:07 am

Hey!

SCD was created in response to there being two criteria for autism; social deficits and rigid thoughts/behaviours (sorry if I phrased that badly). Essentially, someone who has the former but not the latter would be diagnosed with SCD.

PDD-NOS is mostly just a developmental "none of the above". They may have traits from either diagnostic crieterion for ASD, but in weird patterns and not to the same severity level as 'true' autism, or they might be somewhere else on the spectrum entirley.

In practice, its essentially ASD = "yup, you're autistic", SCD = "nah sorry son not autistic-y enough you're just socially awkward" and PDD-NOS is "you we're not sure about, come back later."

SCD is also related to (or might be a different name for or a subset of, depending on who you ask) Semantic Pragmatic Disorder, which is specifically about verbal communication and the social use of language. Or at least, thats what I've read. Idk if its 100% accurate.


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03 May 2014, 12:30 am

American Psychiatric Association explanation
http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Social%20 ... 0Sheet.pdf

Criteria by the National Autism Network
http://nationalautismnetwork.com/about- ... order.html



My Point of View
It is reaction to the perception that there is widespread over diagnosis of people who are socially awkward losers/excuse maker aspies wannabies. It is a slapdown http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dict ... ng-someone of these perceived people for several reasons. In the DSM 5 Social Communication Disorder is not a Autism Spectrum Disorder and there are no treatments. The SCD criteria is social impairment with no known other reason. How often is this literally going to happen?


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 03 May 2014, 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

ZombieBrideXD
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03 May 2014, 12:37 am

From what i heard, ASD and PDD-NOS can consist of Obsessiveness, motor Function and some other things while SCD only Effects Social Issues?

I honestly dont know


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ASPartOfMe
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03 May 2014, 2:48 am

ZombieBrideXD wrote:
From what i heard, ASD and PDD-NOS can consist of Obsessiveness, motor Function and some other things while SCD only Effects Social Issues?

I honestly dont know



"For example, while autism
spectrum disorder (ASD) does encompass communication problems, it also includes restricted, repeti
tive patterns of behavior, interests or activities and gives equal weight to both communication issues
and repetitive behaviors. ASD must be ruled out for SCD to be diagnosed".


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14 May 2014, 3:32 am

I am someone who, just as SCD got added into the DSM, got tagged with SCD.

The person assessing me commented that if he had met me sooner and if this had been before SCD became a diagnosis possibility, he would have dXed as PDD-NOS.

Why?

Because, essentially, I managed to curb the most of the 'other' behaviors and what was/is left was primarily, my unrelenting difficulty in socializing with others.

In essence, my assessor and therapist felt that I had - over time - moved past PDD-NOS and into SCD.

I find this interesting because according to the DSM, SCD is diagnosed only after eliminating ASD... but my assessor and therapist basically said I USED to be on the spectrum.

So what, exactly, is 'correct'?



fsuhunter
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14 May 2014, 3:58 am

My son was diagnosed with ASD a year ago. Today, I wonder if SCD is the more accurate diagnosis. He has always loved playing with other kids and does not have problems with change or restrictive interests. He does perhaps stim a lot- mostly through hyper-active movements (I am not sure if they are ADHD related stimming or autism related). I have asked the therapists in Sweden about this and none of them even knew what SCD is.

What I am confused about is what types of behavior are considered repetitive? Are loud noises (e.g., whooo whoo or space ship sounds) and difficulty sitting still/spinning (the spinning happens often enough but it does not last long) repetitive behaviors? According to our therapists, his problems are with language and social communication, but not (relatively speaking) repetitive or restrictive behavior...



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14 May 2014, 6:50 am

PDDNOS can be very severe to very mild,it isnt automaticaly less severe than those of us with classical autism,its just different in presentation.


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10 Jun 2019, 6:57 pm

SCD should be part of ASD, the ridiculous segregation between these two disorders, is that SCD has the same features of Autism, without the presence of Restricted Interests and Repetitive Behaviours, people shouldn't have Restricted Interests and Repetitive Behaviors, just to be diagnosed with Autism, the Psychiatry should practice diagnosis for people with ASD, with Social Impairments and last resort for Restricted Interests and Repetitive Behaviours, the doctors make specific guess on how people with Autism Behave, but, why Restricted Interested and Repetitive Behavior? You have to understand that Autism is a Spectrum of all and other disorders that fit with Social impairments, caused by Biological and Genetic Mutations from both Genders, but, develops in, with or without Restricted Interests and Repetitive Behaviors, another was from Very Severe to a very Mild form of, Autism, Another word, a person with little to No Restricted Interests and Repetitive Behaviors, can be considered on the Autism Spectrum and be extremely High-Functioning

We should rename SCD to ASD-NOS


ASD-NOS - a person might not be considered Autistic, but have some Social Impairments and should be somewhere on the Spectrum, or might NOT, but has some delays, But, I would NOT Mind if people who would NOT meet the criteria for ASD but have SCD, would be allowed to get Autism Services, join Autism Communities, because people with Autism and SCD, BOTH have Social Impairments and have therapies that can help people with ASD or SCD to communicate, it is the same as you would to with ASD



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10 Jun 2019, 7:03 pm

To be bluntly Honest with you, you don't even need to show to restricted interests and repetitive behaviors to even be Autistic or anything else, we should just bring back PDD and PDD-NOS, because NOT All can fit in the same criteria as DSM calls it true Autism, so, if you do not show restricted interests and repetitive behaviors, you can be diagnosed with PDD-NOS and PDD can be even broader Spectrum, or the DSM should call it GNSD;


G= Genetic, N= Neurological, S=Spectrum, D= Disorder


GNSD will be more like Spectrum, much Broader than Autism, but includes Autism, it includes all Disorders that effects communication and Psychotic features from Genetic Mutations






Disorders part of GNSD:


*ASD
*SCD
*LD
*SD
*SD
*SPD


And many limitless other Disorders part of or relation to communication differences, from Genetic Mutations

GNSD should be a good start to be much than Broader than Autism and SCD, but, it is truly Pervasive Developmental Disorder, but, includes Disorders that is NOT Pervasive Developmental Disorder, but is a Psychotic Spectrum Disorder caused by Genetic Mutations



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10 Jun 2019, 7:04 pm

 


I have a Better Idea

The DSM can call it GPSD

G= Genetic, P= Psychological, S= Spectrum and D= Disorder

GPSD - a logical way of Diagnosing any Disorders that effects communication and other symptoms that is a Psychotic Disorder, or might not affect any communication or be Psychotic Disorder, but a Psychological Condition, from Genetic Mutations, known as; Pervasive Developmental Disorder and other Conditions that are not PDD, but are in the Spectrum, because, they are Genetic and/ or Biological and with GPSD, you can get Autism Services and Psychotic Services, as well, or, we call it, Psychological Services, as a group



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11 Jun 2019, 12:01 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
My Point of View
It is reaction to the perception that there is widespread over diagnosis of people who are socially awkward losers/excuse maker aspies wannabies. It is a slapdown http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dict ... ng-someone of these perceived people for several reasons. In the DSM 5 Social Communication Disorder is not a Autism Spectrum Disorder and there are no treatments. The SCD criteria is social impairment with no known other reason. How often is this literally going to happen?

Why aren't there treatments for it? Surely anyone trained to treat autistic people could just as easily treat SCD as well?


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05 Sep 2020, 4:51 pm

Should Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder and Autism Spectrum Disorder be part of Pervasive Developmental Disorder?



The symptoms of Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder looks very similar to Autism and related developmental disorders.





Social (pragmatic) communication disorder


Diagnostic Criteria 315.39 (F80.89)

A. Persistent difficulties in the social use of verbal and nonverbal communication as manifested by all of the following:
1. Deficits in using communication for social purposes, such as greeting and sharing information, in a manner that is appropriate for the social context.

2. Impairment of the ability to change communication to match context or the needs of the listener, such as speaking differently in a classroom than on a playground, talking differently to a child than to an adult, and avoiding use of overly formal language.

3. Difficulties following rules for conversation and storytelling, such as taking turns in conversation, rephrasing when misunderstood, and knowing how to use verbal and nonverbal signals to regulate interaction.

4. Difficulties understanding what is not explicitly stated (e.g., making inferences) and nonliteral or ambiguous language (e.g., idioms, humor, metaphors, multiple meanings that depend on the context for interpretation).

B. The deficits result in functional limitations in effective communication, social participation, social relationships, academic achievement, or occupational performance, individually or in combination.

C. The onset of symptoms is in the early developmental period (but deficits may not become fully manifest until social communication demands exceed limited capacities).

D. The symptoms are not attributable to another medical or neurological condition or to low abilities in the domains of word structure and grammar, and are not better explained by autism spectrum disorder, intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder), global developmental delay, or another mental disorder.



It looks like milder form of Autism, such as PDD-NOS or Asperger's Syndrome that was once used it DSM-4, before the new upgrade to DSM-5






Symptoms of Autism may include:


* Difficulty with communication and interaction with other people

* Restricted interests and repetitive behaviors

* Symptoms that affect the person’s ability to function in school, work, and other areas of life



Social communication/interaction behaviors may include:

* Making little or inconsistent eye contact

* Having a tendency not to look at or listen to people

* Rarely sharing enjoyment of objects or activities by pointing at or showing things to others

* Failing to, or being slow to, respond to someone calling their name or to other verbal attempts to gain attention

* Having difficulties with the back and forth of conversation

* Often talking at length about a favorite subject without noticing that others are not interested or without giving others a chance to respond

* Having facial expressions, movements, and gestures that do not match what is being said

* Having an unusual tone of voice that may sound sing-song or flat and robot-like

* Having trouble understanding another person’s point of view or being unable to predict or understand other people’s actions



Restrictive/repetitive behaviors may include:

* Repeating certain behaviors or having unusual behaviors, such as repeating words or phrases (a behavior called echolalia)

* Having a lasting intense interest in certain topics, such as numbers, details, or facts

* Having overly focused interests, such as with moving objects or with parts of objects

* Getting upset by slight changes in a routine

* Being more sensitive or less sensitive than other people to sensory input, such as light, noise, clothing, or temperature


People with ASD may also experience sleep problems and irritability. Although people with ASD experience many challenges, they may also have many strengths, including:

* Being able to learn things in detail and remember information for long periods of time

* Being strong visual and auditory learners

* Excelling in math, science, music, or art





There is really no difference between both disorders, the symptoms of Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder looks very similar to Autism and related developmental disorders.


The only difference is that Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder is kind of like Autism, but without sensory issues or restricted interests and repetitive behaviors





I think it was a mistake that DSM removed PDD, because of that



The reason I said that it is because of this


\|/


"The diagnostic category of pervasive developmental disorders (PDD) refers to a group of disorders characterized by delays in the development of socialization and communication skills. Parents may note symptoms as early as infancy, although the typical age of onset is before 3 years of age."



It was written by National Institutes of Health ( a government website that studies in medical fields ).



https://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/all ... 20of%20age



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05 Sep 2020, 4:53 pm

Can you have neurotypical social skills and still have ASD?



For example, you developed social skills in time, but you had history of sensory issues and repetitive thoughts or behaviors that caused you great distress from early childhood



Another example is that you can have some kind of rare form of Pervasive Developmental Disorder, with neurotypical traits



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05 Sep 2020, 4:56 pm

Here are the symptoms:

Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested
by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative,
not exhaustive; see text):

1. Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech
(e.g., simple motor stereotypes, lining up toys or flipping objects, idiosyncratic phrases).

2. Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized
patterns of verbal or nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small
changes, difficulties with transitions, rigid thinking patterns, greeting rituals,
need to take the same route or eat the same food every day).

3. Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus
(e.g., strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects,
excessively circumscribed or perseverative interests).

4. Hyper- or hypo reactivity to sensory input or unusual interest in sensory
aspects of the environment (e.g. apparent indifference to pain/temperature,
adverse response to specific sounds or textures, excessive smelling or
touching of objects, visual fascination with lights or movement).



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05 Sep 2020, 4:56 pm

I think the diagnostic criteria for Autism is a little too restrictive, because since Autism is a spectrum, I think you could have developed social skills in time and still be Autistic, but it was not diagnosed until much later in life or was never diagnosed.



The reason why I say that is because my psychiatrist explained that since Autism is a spectrum disorder, you can have developed social skills in time, but only had symptoms that includes, restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior that has caused you distress from early to late childhood.



Also symptoms that includes, restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior can be a social impairment as well, but can understand social cues and emotions.