28% of murderers thought to have suffered from ASD

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Antrax
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27 Sep 2020, 2:22 am

FranzOren wrote:
Antrax wrote:
FranzOren wrote:
I think instead of saying ASD, we should say that most people with developmental disorders are more likely to be victims of crimes than commit them, because there are people who are developmentally delayed without having Autism


Doesn't address the rhetorical problem. I'm willing to bet most criminals are also victims of crimes, just like most bullies are victims of bullying.

I prefer my approach of 99.9% of autistics aren't murderers so I don't care what proportion of murderers are autistic.



Does 99.9 % sound too big?

I can say that 79 or 80 % of people with DD are not murderers?


79% or 80% is a) inaccurate and b) a terrifying low number, so no don't lowball it. The point is to get people not to be afraid of people with ASD (or another developmental disorder).


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27 Sep 2020, 10:28 am

Antrax wrote:

I prefer my approach of 99.9% of autistics aren't murderers so I don't care what proportion of murderers are autistic.


I think emotrtkey makes a valid point, and one that should not be brushed to one side. On the face if it, the data seem to suggest a considerable propensity for violence among those with ASD, in comparison to the NT population. It makes much more sense to try to understand the reasons, and work to resolve the issues, rather than try to bury the "inconvenient data" that doesn't support the narrative that many people may wish was true.

If one wants to understand why some people are murderers, and how to do something about it, it probably makes more sense to focus on them and their backgrounds, rather than just dismissing them as being a tiny percentage of the population as a whole.



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27 Sep 2020, 12:52 pm

strings wrote:
Antrax wrote:

I prefer my approach of 99.9% of autistics aren't murderers so I don't care what proportion of murderers are autistic.


It makes much more sense to try to understand the reasons, and work to resolve the issues, rather than try to bury the "inconvenient data" that doesn't support the narrative that many people may wish was true.

If one wants to understand why some people are murderers, and how to do something about it, it probably makes more sense to focus on them and their backgrounds, rather than just dismissing them as being a tiny percentage of the population as a whole.


Right, just like how I think autism parents and those with special needs kids with severe issues need more support if we want to reduce death in them. This isn't saying it's the child's fault nor is it saying it was right what the parent did, we are looking at the cause behind the murder and what lead to it. Just sentencing the parent and not doing anything about the problem isn't going to make it go away and it will keep happening with other disabled kids in the future. This used to be a hot topic here and we were always called apologists for wanting to do something about the issue to keep it from happening just because we were not all about "punish the mom and throw away the key" and ignoring the issue behind it. But lot of those people seemed to have left this forum.

Just like if we kept punishing a child for having behavior and for hitting other kids and picking fights with them, it won't stop them from doing it. Instead they look at why is the kid doing it, what is his motive, and if it turns out he had self esteem issues or was a bullied victim or was living around abuse at home, you help that kid instead and give them support and you give them a consequence that is appropriate for that situation and also diffuse the situation when it happens like removing the kid from it than just punishing them. That also helps the victims out too because the adults had removed the kid from them than was giving them trouble. But even in this situation people have seen it as defending the bully when that isn't the case. The case is it won't stop the bullying if all you do is punish the bully for being a bully. And if this is a child, the adults jobs are to help that kid so they can grow up to be fine adults and live a normal and happy life and not be a messed up adult who is still bullying other people. By then it becomes their own responsibility to make that change.


I think too many people just want to get rid of the problem than try to fix it.


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27 Sep 2020, 1:28 pm

So basically a person with ASD is more likely to murder than a person without ASD? No wonder autism has so much negative stigma. :roll:

I'm going to fake NT as much as I can enough to get reassessed and "pass" the test so that I can have ASD taken off my medical records, because I am not living the rest of my life basically having "potential murderer" on my medical records.

f**k this thread, it is so offensive and triggering. Who the f**k bumped it?!?! :roll:


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Jiheisho
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27 Sep 2020, 1:43 pm

Joe90 wrote:
So basically a person with ASD is more likely to murder than a person without ASD?


If you read the very first post, that is not the conclusion, but rather those with a head injury and ASD are more likely to commit murder than having one of those conditions alone.

And I agree with your concern about creating a negative stigma with people with ASD. Especially, since the issue is clearly defined in the first post.



Joe90
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27 Sep 2020, 2:00 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
So basically a person with ASD is more likely to murder than a person without ASD?


If you read the very first post, that is not the conclusion, but rather those with a head injury and ASD are more likely to commit murder than having one of those conditions alone.

And I agree with your concern about creating a negative stigma with people with ASD. Especially, since the issue is clearly defined in the first post.


I always thought it was drugs mixed with severe mental health or untreated schizophrenia that were more likely to commit murder, as murdering takes a lot of guts and to do it you've basically got to be out of your mind.

But does being a female lessen my chance of murdering? I'm not saying there has never been a female who has murdered, but usually female murderers are known to help plot a murder rather than personally going off and stabbing a person to death.


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Jiheisho
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27 Sep 2020, 2:19 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
So basically a person with ASD is more likely to murder than a person without ASD?


If you read the very first post, that is not the conclusion, but rather those with a head injury and ASD are more likely to commit murder than having one of those conditions alone.

And I agree with your concern about creating a negative stigma with people with ASD. Especially, since the issue is clearly defined in the first post.


I always thought it was drugs mixed with severe mental health or untreated schizophrenia that were more likely to commit murder, as murdering takes a lot of guts and to do it you've basically got to be out of your mind.

But does being a female lessen my chance of murdering? I'm not saying there has never been a female who has murdered, but usually female murderers are known to help plot a murder rather than personally going off and stabbing a person to death.


Right, female murderers (or murderesses) represent a smaller proportion of the murderer population. Statistically, you have less of a chance of being killed by a woman.

And you have really brought up a good point--murder is a really rare behavior and an outlier. When you sample a population of murderers, you are dealing with small populations that are a not by definition "normal." Also, most people kill someone they know, but the stereotype of the mentally disturbed killer is someone that identifies a random victim.

However, the psychology of a killer is not related to mental health issues (which is why the stigma surrounding autism is bad): 5 surprising lessons a psychologist learned from interviewing killers



kitten_caboodle
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27 Sep 2020, 3:06 pm

Wouldn't that mean 72% of murderers don't suffer from ASD? Maybe that's good news! How many percent have freckles, or cavities, or glasses, or green eyes? Statistics don't really mean anything because people can be grouped in any number of ways.



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27 Sep 2020, 3:16 pm

There is one video from a person who says he has PHD or related medical degree.

He also talk about Criminal Autistic Psychopathy.

There is one video of a person who says that there is a link between mass shootings, by some individuals with ASD.

( He also said that he has Autism himself )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4xM7Ah ... e=youtu.be


I also wander if people like me who would have been diagnosed with PDD-NOS long time ago, are also much more likely to commit crimes than most people with profound developmental disorders

There is also quote from Wikipedia

"It is common for individuals with PDD-NOS to have more intact social skills and a lower level of intellectual deficit than individuals with other PDDs."

If it is common for people like me with ASD to have more intact social skills, am I more likely to commit crimes that most Autistic people?

Some of you guys point out that committing crimes is a social skill. If that is the case, then I am more likely to commit crimes ( even though I have Autism), because I have better social skills.


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17615427/


https://www.google.com/search?q=Pervasi ... e&ie=UTF-8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kOE2Pad9lA


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27185105/


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17877031/

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CATT ... CA0&uact=5

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CATT ... CA0&uact=5


https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CATT ... CA0&uact=5



FranzOren
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27 Sep 2020, 3:19 pm

kitten_caboodle wrote:
Wouldn't that mean 72% of murderers don't suffer from ASD? Maybe that's good news! How many percent have freckles, or cavities, or glasses, or green eyes? Statistics don't really mean anything because people can be grouped in any number of ways.



What about other developmental disorders?

You you going to call them all allistic just because they don't have ASD?


People with developmental disorders are also more likely to be victims of crimes than commit them



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27 Sep 2020, 3:21 pm

FranzOren wrote:
kitten_caboodle wrote:
Wouldn't that mean 72% of murderers don't suffer from ASD? Maybe that's good news! How many percent have freckles, or cavities, or glasses, or green eyes? Statistics don't really mean anything because people can be grouped in any number of ways.



What about other developmental disorders?

You you going to call the all allistic just because they don't have ASD?


People with developmental disorders are also more likely to be victims of crimes than commit them


I agree about the number of victims! I wasn't saying if the criminals were allistic or not, or if they had other disorders. I'm saying there are an infinite number of ways to classify people and the main idea is that if this statistic is even right, it means 72% weren't on the spectrum.



FranzOren
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27 Sep 2020, 3:26 pm

I am sorry for posting lots of links, some of those links have data and statistics that seems important to me.



I just wanted to ask if I am more likely to commit crimes than most people with ASD, because I have better social skills.


I feel like that I am more likely to commit crimes, because I have social skills.


Should I be afraid against myself?


I feel scared, having social skills is scary



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27 Sep 2020, 4:36 pm

If you are male, you are more likely to commit a crime. Notice how there are more males in prison than females?

I dont think it's something to worry about if you have a ASD.


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FranzOren
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27 Sep 2020, 4:39 pm

I am a male with history of being diagnosed with Leaning Disorders, ASD, ADHD, Conduct Disorder, Bipolar Disorder ( with psychotic features ) and OCD



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27 Sep 2020, 6:55 pm

I have more social skills than the average autistic. Does that mean I might commit a murder?

So much for the days when people used to tell me that's it's OK to be autistic. It is not OK to be autistic, if there are statistics of mass shootings against us. :x :roll:


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27 Sep 2020, 9:13 pm

FranzOren wrote:
I just wanted to ask if I am more likely to commit crimes than most people with ASD, because I have better social skills.


I feel like that I am more likely to commit crimes, because I have social skills.


Should I be afraid against myself?


I feel scared, having social skills is scary


Don't apologise just because some members here are triggered by the simple act of asking a question?

We can't change existing public opinion but we can change perception and if we are positive then it will reduce self-stigma which I think is more damaging than whatever social stigma is carried outside which we can't control.