Rant: People first language police online

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ASPartOfMe
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04 Jun 2014, 9:39 pm

1. My post was not mostly about language correctness but about rudeness. These people are coming into conversations about various autism related topics and telling people stop identifying yourself as autistic say you are a person with autism. Thankfully unlike here people on those comment sections are not saying well it is only about words it is not really important, they standing up to these language bullies and driving them off these blogs and youtube videos one person at a time.

2. If you feel you"have autism". It would be very wrong of me to interrupt your conversation on sensory issues and say you must call yourself autistic. It would be disrespectful because I have not lived your life. If I did that you would have every right to tell me to f___k off. And if you started to see that often I would understand why you started a WP rant.

3. Once the issue has been raised I don't see what is wrong in using the opportunity to educate because people first language is easier understood as compassionate and identity first is a weird concept to most people. Maybe out of 10 people one person will learn something positive which is better then none. We don't have the massive amount of money Autism Speaks has so we have to do this a little bit at a time.

4. When the gays started to advocate for gay marriage they did not say we don't have worry about about people using homophobic slurs anymore, it is not really important compared to the big picture. They fought for themselves on several fronts.

5. Maybe I am missing something but I do not see what liberal or conservative political views have to do with this.


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League_Girl
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04 Jun 2014, 10:49 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Woman with children or woman who has children. Yeah both sound the same to me just like person with autism or person who has autism. It doesn't matter. I have seen people say someone has cancer or something with cancer. My dad is diabetic, he has diabetes. He is someone with diabetes.


Exactly! They sound the same to me as well. I don't grasp why anyone cares about the syntactical structure when it conveys the same meaning. We're going into side bars that detract from the matters at hand.

This is so frustrating to me that we have to go into all of this political correctness. Why can't we just ditch it, all of us work together and attack the problems at hand? Do you agree with me?


That has been my pet peeve for years.


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League_Girl
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04 Jun 2014, 10:57 pm

Okay, none has ever told me how to define myself. People can refer to themselves however they want. I prefer to not be called autistic and that is my wish so don't call me that. If someone else wants to be referred as autistic and not aspie, their right and I will respect that and call them whatever they want. If they want to be referred to as having autism than being autistic, their right and I will refer them as having autism than being autistic.


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AutumnSylver
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05 Jun 2014, 3:29 am

Quote:
starkid wrote:
If you're cool with people treating you as a condition, then go for it, I guess. I'm pretty sure that everyone who mentioned political correctness just hates getting called out on their bigotry in other areas, though, so y'all can just shut the hell up about that.


Quote:
I get that language is powerful. But intent is also significant. To nitpick about language usage in this manner is not as helpful as it may seem. People should be aware of their impact on others when they choose their words, but those hearing them should not assume malintent or necessarily take offense. Good will is more effective than petty indignation.


Amen. To assume that people view someone "as a condition" just because they don't use person-first language is arrogant.


What's also arrogant is jrjones' attitude that anybody who disagrees with him/her is wrong.


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KingdomOfRats
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05 Jun 2014, 4:01 am

starkid wrote:
Amen. To assume that people view someone "as a condition" just because they don't use person-first language is arrogant.

its actualy how the care industry and social services ID team over here view autism-it is taught to them in disability awareness training.
have personaly been corrected by people for not wanting to be called 'a person with autism',have even been told its offensive... sorry what now,its offensive for an autistic to want to be refered to as an autistic? :?


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The_Walrus
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05 Jun 2014, 4:21 am

jrjones9933 wrote:
You're all missing the point. Call yourselves what every you want, and bless your hearts.

Do you want people to talk to a person with a condition, or talk to a condition?

The point of this was never to change the way people with disabilities felt about themselves, it was to change the way that able-bodied people felt about them.

If you're cool with people treating you as a condition, then go for it, I guess. I'm pretty sure that everyone who mentioned political correctness just hates getting called out on their bigotry in other areas, though, so y'all can just shut the hell up about that.

Sorry JR, I think you're wrong.

If someone says "The_Walrus is autistic", they are not saying "The_Walrus is not a person, but rather the physical embodiment of a neurological condition".



ASPartOfMe
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05 Jun 2014, 5:17 am

KingdomOfRats wrote:
have personaly been corrected by people for not wanting to be called 'a person with autism',have even been told its offensive... sorry what now,its offensive for an autistic to want to be refered to as an autistic? :?


Apparently it is offensive these days. And if you want to complain about it that is apparently offensive also because you are wasting time that should be spent or more important issues. So now not only is there correct language, but correct priorities. Unlike with the language police the priority police never tell me what the ?correct? priority is.


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jrjones9933
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05 Jun 2014, 9:02 am

First, learn to use quotes. Second, it would please some people if I decided that everyone who disagreed with me was correct. :wink:

The language we use affects the way we think

There's kind of a lot of evidence for my position.

I agree with OP that there's a time and a place for every discussion. I don't approve of driving people away from boards, except for unrepentant bigots, of course.



kraftiekortie
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05 Jun 2014, 9:13 am

I'm Aspergian, and I'm a person with (undiagnosed) Asperger's Syndrome.



Ann2011
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05 Jun 2014, 9:14 am

jrjones9933 wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
You're all missing the point. Call yourselves what every you want, and bless your hearts.

Do you want people to talk to a person with a condition, or talk to a condition?

The point of this was never to change the way people with disabilities felt about themselves, it was to change the way that able-bodied people felt about them.

If you're cool with people treating you as a condition, then go for it, I guess. I'm pretty sure that everyone who mentioned political correctness just hates getting called out on their bigotry in other areas, though, so y'all can just shut the hell up about that.


I get that language is powerful. But intent is also significant. To nitpick about language usage in this manner is not as helpful as it may seem. People should be aware of their impact on others when they choose their words, but those hearing them should not assume malintent or necessarily take offense. Good will is more effective than petty indignation.


Did you or Starkid actually read the post I wrote? It's like you're replying to someone else entirely. As I originally wrote, I care more about the effect on the speaker than on the listener.


I get that. Its about the speaker's words and the attitudes they reflect. What I'm saying is that sometimes it's not that big a deal. And if such bickering detracts from actual communication, it is unproductive.



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05 Jun 2014, 9:56 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
It is getting very annoying that in many comments section relating to autism the people first language supporters instead of sticking to the topic on hand try to correct other posters for using "autistic" and demand we use "person with autism". The sad part is they think they are helping us.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/my- ... ent-614254
http://www.npr.org/2014/06/02/316462407 ... ed-schools

This trend is really is picking up. 6 months ago ago I rarely saw this, now I see this often. This is just plain condescending. We have decades more experience living on the spectrum then they do, but they think they know better then us on how we should identify.

As NT's are 98% of the population it is understandable they would not know many of us would prefer "autistic". I have no problem with this. What I do not understand is what is so difficult about asking people "do you want to be described as a person with autism or autistic?". What I do not understand is why they think bullying people into using a language correct expression is going to make said people feel better about themselves. And we are supposed to be the rude group?

The good news is that pretty much every time this is done autistics are standing up to them and explaining to confused readers why they prefer identity first language. The bad news is that many good online conversations are getting sidetracked by this issue.


My question is why is this a pressing matter for the autistic community? Do we not have more pressing matters to attend to like being able make it in our respective societies? How does this help us in the long run? Can't we just ditch the political correctness please? Who cares if it is person with x or x person? Why does it matter?


THIS! With a supposed 80% unemployment rate, work place discrimination, and how the media trash the Autism spectrum every time some wing nut shoots up a place, the above is misplaced do gooding. Also don't forget the total lack of services for any adult that falls at the HF and Aspergers end of the spectrum. But somehow the above is the white hot issue of the day.

*insert near fatal eye roll here*

I have Bipolar Disorder, and was pissed when TPTB changed Manic Depression to Bipolar Disorder. All it did was sanitize a name for the masses. I didn't get treated any better. Discrimination still abounds.

Autistic vs a person with Autism is the equivalent of worrying about broken windows, while the house is burning down to the ground.



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05 Jun 2014, 10:02 am

Quote:
You're all missing the point. Call yourselves what every you want, and bless your hearts.

Do you want people to talk to a person with a condition, or talk to a condition?

The point of this was never to change the way people with disabilities felt about themselves, it was to change the way that able-bodied people felt about them.

If you're cool with people treating you as a condition, then go for it, I guess. I'm pretty sure that everyone who mentioned political correctness just hates getting called out on their bigotry in other areas, though, so y'all can just shut the hell up about that.


I don't think calling me a 'person with autism' is going to make people see me more respectfully. In fact, most of the people I've met who insist on person first language seem less likely to see autistics as people than those who respect autistics' own preferences. I once spent two days at a conference where they were talking nonstop about helping 'children with autism spectrum disorders'. At one point, they listed off categories of people and asked them to stand up, to see what kind of people had shown up. They listed teachers, various kinds of therapists, parents, and so forth. Then they asked if they'd missed anyone, and two people put up their hands. Me, as an autistic person; and some other guy, who was a politician. So, do you honestly think calling us 'people with autism spectrum disorders' was really helping them see us as people, when it hadn't even occurred to them that any of us might attend a talk about us?

In contrast, many of the people who call us 'autistic' have taken the time to realize we might have an opinion on what we're being called and have tried to find out what we prefer.



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05 Jun 2014, 10:11 am

It's unclear from their behavior how much parents see their children as people. Cue shrieks of outrage.

I find the research on language use and behavior convincing, if not yet entirely clear. The only things I've seen opposing that in this thread are people saying they don't believe it, and anecdotes.



Ann2011
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05 Jun 2014, 10:26 am

jrjones9933 wrote:
It's unclear from their behavior how much parents see their children as people. Cue shrieks of outrage.

I find the research on language use and behavior convincing, if not yet entirely clear. The only things I've seen opposing that in this thread are people saying they don't believe it, and anecdotes.


Believe what? Convincing of what?



jrjones9933
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05 Jun 2014, 11:02 am

The language we use affects the way we think


There are pages and pages, ranging from academic sources to the popular press, to cracked.com. Pick a source that you like.



Ann2011
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05 Jun 2014, 11:11 am

jrjones9933 wrote:
The language we use affects the way we think


There are pages and pages, ranging from academic sources to the popular press, to cracked.com. Pick a source that you like.


My point is not that language doesn't effect how we think. I agree that it does. I am saying that in conversations about other topics, it is not always productive to derail them in order to discuss it. Often when people use language that is offensive, it is out of ignorance, not malice.