The surprising body part that could be causing Autism

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Shadi2
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29 Jun 2014, 3:23 pm

leniorose wrote:
Shadi2 wrote:
Are they talking about actual Autism tho (the real Autism, where you can see the difference in the brain in a scan, like Temple Grandin for example, you can see her visual cortex is very developed), or about all these cases I have heard about of people who thought their child was autistic, but when they changed their diet the symptoms disappeared? Because I don't think these people were actually autistic, I think they had some issues with chemical "interactions" in their brain.


My symptoms improved a lot with a better diet, and some disappeared. My brain is clearly very different when seen on a brain scan.


Was your brain actually different, or do you mean different areas were "enlightened" (not sure of the right word here) in brain scans? Because if so it doesn't necessarily means that you brain was actually different, with circuits actually different (like Temple who has a visibly very developped visual cortex, and Daniel who has circuits that are different than most people and these additional circuits are also visible on scans), but could simply mean that different areas of your brain were "working" more than others, for whatever reason, chemical imbalance, or the bacteria that goldfish mentioned that possibly causes a chemical imbalance.


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29 Jun 2014, 3:28 pm

cavernio wrote:
To the person who trusts pharmaceuticals because they've been scientifically tested, there's plenty of evidence of drug companies basically twisting findings to support their business. SSRI's for instance, were found to have been adopted because eli lily was doing things like running so many trials of a drug, then cherry-picking the ones that showed it was helpful, so that they can then sell the drug. But the reality is that if you look at all the studies that were done, we'd find that the drugs themselves wouldn't be deemed helpful enough to even exist had companies not basically lied.
(I am NOT out to refute anyone who improves on SSRIs, that would be utterly foolish and illogical of me to presume to know better than you how you react to something.)


I trust them because they work and were prescribed by a medical professional, which I find to be a more reliable source of information about my health than random strangers on the internet.


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Shadi2
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29 Jun 2014, 3:39 pm

cavernio wrote:
You seem to be under the impression, Shadi, that the nervous system is 'wired' without chemicals. That is simply not the case, chemicals are what cause the nervous system to work in the first place.


Then you misunderstood my messages. I am talking about the difference between a person who was born with a "normal" brain, and where the "circuits" are present (or ready to "work", if this is easier to understand) but not working "properly", the link from one point A to point B is not made, due to a chemical imbalance, versus a person who actually has an autistic brain (i.e. the brain and circuits are already formed and working in a certain way, like Temple Grandin who has a very developped visual cortex). For example if you get drunk, your brain is still the same, the "circuits" you had before getting drunk are still there ready to "work", but are not working properly (a bit like an electric wire that wouldn't be working properly), and will start working properly once the effect of alchool goes away. One of my friends is a scientist, maybe I'll ask him to help me explain this to others.


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29 Jun 2014, 4:33 pm

Shadi2:

I've shared my story in the link in my signature. I've included quite a bit in the OP and discussion that follows about what symptoms I had and how things have changed since.

I find your comments somewhat insulting. You're suggesting that the autism symptoms I've experienced my entire life, that are completely textbook as per Dr. Attwood's "The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome," were somehow imaginary vs. real. That couldn't be further from the truth.

As per the info in the AutismOne Conference topics, 90% of those on the spectrum have "tummy troubles," which to me suggests that the vast majority of autistics can in fact be treated via improving digestive health. These are not "fake," autistics. These are people diagnosed with autism based on signs/symptoms/traits of autism. From any research I've done, having your brain scanned and conclusively determining brain structure differences is not a diagnostic tool nor criteria for autism.


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KC73
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29 Jun 2014, 4:33 pm

Temple Gradins large visual cortex might be completely seperate from her autism. There are non autistics with overdeveloped visual cortexs too, and people with brain differences of various kinds throughout the NT and autistic communities. These differences are how we know which bits of the brain correspond to different abilities and behaviours. But the brain is a hugely complex living organism, not a static model, and so far no template has been found for the "real autistic brain" thats being talked about as if its a real thing.

And the "real autism versus not real" argument against the gut and diet causes is a bit silly. Because theres no way of knowing whether someone has "an autistic bran" or has autistic symptoms with a "normal" brain because of gut stuff until youve properly treated the gut to find out if symptoms lessen. and proper treatment is not merely eating "healthily" or giving up dairy/sugar whatever. This is science, its more complicated than stop eating x or eat y, and its weird that people are arguing for "science" but then scoffing because this diet stuff isnt "simple enough" for them. And none of the people on here who are sure their brain is different can actually prove that as a fact. So if you have an autistic child who might be having these symptoms because of gut issues, isnt it cruel to refuse to treat them just through fear their autism might go away? Is fighting for an identity really worth rejecting knowledge that could lessen difficult symptoms?



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29 Jun 2014, 4:34 pm

I always thought Autism was caused by the wrong sperm getting into the egg.


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29 Jun 2014, 4:35 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
And there are hundreds if not thousands of people who believe in ghosts.

Doesn't mean I take them seriously, either.


...the truth is out there.

:)


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29 Jun 2014, 4:37 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
And there are hundreds if not thousands of people who believe in ghosts.

Doesn't mean I take them seriously, either.


...the truth is out there.

:)


Touche. :wink:


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29 Jun 2014, 4:44 pm

KC73 wrote:
Temple Gradins large visual cortex might be completely seperate from her autism. There are non autistics with overdeveloped visual cortexs too, and people with brain differences of various kinds throughout the NT and autistic communities. These differences are how we know which bits of the brain correspond to different abilities and behaviours. But the brain is a hugely complex living organism, not a static model, and so far no template has been found for the "real autistic brain" thats being talked about as if its a real thing.

And the "real autism versus not real" argument against the gut and diet causes is a bit silly. Because theres no way of knowing whether someone has "an autistic bran" or has autistic symptoms with a "normal" brain because of gut stuff until youve properly treated the gut to find out if symptoms lessen. and proper treatment is not merely eating "healthily" or giving up dairy/sugar whatever. This is science, its more complicated than stop eating x or eat y, and its weird that people are arguing for "science" but then scoffing because this diet stuff isnt "simple enough" for them. And none of the people on here who are sure their brain is different can actually prove that as a fact. So if you have an autistic child who might be having these symptoms because of gut issues, isnt it cruel to refuse to treat them just through fear their autism might go away? Is fighting for an identity really worth rejecting knowledge that could lessen difficult symptoms?


I'm not actually against the "diet" thing.

At the moment, the idea's just not quite far enough along yet for me to jump on board. As far as the "real v. not real autism" aspect, I suspect that what is currently considered "autism" is actually a variety of conditions with similar presentations; therefore, I find it within the realm of possibility that there's a strain that's caused/affected by gut issues.

In the meantime, if anyone knows of any foods that improve visual-spatial perception, I'm all ears. 8)


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29 Jun 2014, 4:59 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Shadi2:

I've shared my story in the link in my signature. I've included quite a bit in the OP and discussion that follows about what symptoms I had and how things have changed since.

I find your comments somewhat insulting. You're suggesting that the autism symptoms I've experienced my entire life, that are completely textbook as per Dr. Attwood's "The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome," were somehow imaginary vs. real. That couldn't be further from the truth.

As per the info in the AutismOne Conference topics, 90% of those on the spectrum have "tummy troubles," which to me suggests that the vast majority of autistics can in fact be treated via improving digestive health. These are not "fake," autistics. These are people diagnosed with autism based on signs/symptoms/traits of autism. From any research I've done, having your brain scanned and conclusively determining brain structure differences is not a diagnostic tool nor criteria for autism.


I honestly don't understand why you feel insulted by my comments, it is insulting to you when I say that your symptoms of Autism might have been caused by a chemical imbalance (or whatever reason), as opposed to telling you that your symptoms were caused by actual differences in your brain? I truly and honestly don't understand how it is insulting. Would it not be good news for you if someone told you that your brain is perfectly normal?

And I don't understand why you keep saying that I said your symptoms were "imaginary", because I never said that, I never implied that, and I never even thought that. I never said that you "imagined" the symptoms, I said the symptoms were possibly caused by a chemical(s) reaction(s) in your brain, not that they were "imaginary".

About the "tummy troubles", I wonder what is the percentage of people who have tummy troubles in the general population. Also, as I mentioned in a previous post, these tummy troubles may be due to stress caused by certain impairments, and other people's reactions or attitude towards autistic people. Many situations can be very stressing.

Also as I mentioned, maybe this diet can help other people, which is great if it does, and I understand that your intentions are good, but what bothers me is that you seem to believe that because this diet helped you it will help everyone else (a few of my aunts did that when they were on an algae diet, it was also the "miracle" cure), while you don't even know what causes another person's Autism, you don't know if they were born that way, or if the signs of Autism appeared later, and you don't actually know what caused your own symptoms either, you only know that a diet helped you. Also the brain is like any other part of your body, i.e. everyone is different, every brain is different. For example, some people are born with 8 toes instead of 10, and a diet won't suddenly make new toes grow, but if you had a toe that is present but was constantly numb then maybe a medication and/or diet will allow your body to heal and you will feel your toe again.


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Last edited by Shadi2 on 29 Jun 2014, 5:56 pm, edited 5 times in total.

goldfish21
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29 Jun 2014, 5:00 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
In the meantime, if anyone knows of any foods that improve visual-spatial perception, I'm all ears. 8)


Ecuador Cubensis.

Although, your definition of "improve," may vary wildly from the visual-spacial perception enhancements these create. :D


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29 Jun 2014, 5:35 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
In the meantime, if anyone knows of any foods that improve visual-spatial perception, I'm all ears. 8)


Ecuador Cubensis.

Although, your definition of "improve," may vary wildly from the visual-spacial perception enhancements these create. :D


Thanks, I'll look into it.


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goldfish21
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29 Jun 2014, 5:48 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
In the meantime, if anyone knows of any foods that improve visual-spatial perception, I'm all ears. 8)


Ecuador Cubensis.

Although, your definition of "improve," may vary wildly from the visual-spacial perception enhancements these create. :D


Thanks, I'll look into it.


...I suppose those outside of certain social circles or having never had any interest in mycology have no idea what Ecuador Cubensis are. They're a strain of psilocybin (aka magic) mushroom. So, if the visual-spatial perception improvement you seek is of the Super Mario Bros. variety, then by all means, have at 'er & don't forget to eat dark chocolate along with them for it's MOAI effects on the brain that enhance the effects of psilocybin.

But otherwise I was joking. :)


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goldfish21
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29 Jun 2014, 6:03 pm

Shadi2 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Shadi2:

I've shared my story in the link in my signature. I've included quite a bit in the OP and discussion that follows about what symptoms I had and how things have changed since.

I find your comments somewhat insulting. You're suggesting that the autism symptoms I've experienced my entire life, that are completely textbook as per Dr. Attwood's "The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome," were somehow imaginary vs. real. That couldn't be further from the truth.

As per the info in the AutismOne Conference topics, 90% of those on the spectrum have "tummy troubles," which to me suggests that the vast majority of autistics can in fact be treated via improving digestive health. These are not "fake," autistics. These are people diagnosed with autism based on signs/symptoms/traits of autism. From any research I've done, having your brain scanned and conclusively determining brain structure differences is not a diagnostic tool nor criteria for autism.


I honestly don't understand why you feel insulted by my comments, it is insulting to you when I say that your symptoms of Autism might have been caused by a chemical imbalance (or whatever reason), as opposed to telling you that your symptoms were caused by actual differences in your brain? I truly and honestly don't understand how it is insulting. Would it not be good news for you if someone told you that your brain is perfectly normal?

And I don't understand why you keep saying that I said your symptoms were "imaginary", because I never said that, I never implied that, and I never even thought that. I never said that you "imagined" the symptoms, I said the symptoms were possibly caused by a chemical(s) reaction(s) in your brain, not that they were "imaginary".

About the "tummy troubles", I wonder what is the percentage of people who have tummy troubles in the general population.


Because you are referring to confirmed brain scan diagnosis of structural differences in the brain as "real autism," and the textbook autism symptoms I've experienced all my life as somehow "not real autism." I assure you that my life's experiences were absolutely textbook autism as per Dr. Attwood's book, and that my symptoms have been largely alleviated by the diet and herbal protocol I've followed.

I've never read about any such differentiation besides in your posts. Further, I've never heard of brain scans like these being used as a diagnostic tool to confirm an autism diagnosis. This is because it isn't done. An expert psychiatrist would do a verbal interview & behavioural diagnosis, and possibly rely on answers to written questionnaires and such, in order to give someone a diagnosis. I can all but guarantee that everyone on these forums with official diagnoses will likely state that their diagnosis was conversational/observational & possibly included a written component but I very highly doubt anyone will say they had their brain scanned and that brain structures were analyzed and compared to Temple Grandin's in order to receive a diagnosis as autistic.

I have no idea whether my brain structure is different or not. I've never had my brain scanned. As per the thread in my sig, I'm certain that autism symptoms are caused by chemical imbalances. I've referred to this as a "food chemical induced drug trip," but now with further information it may also be a bacteria generated chemical induced drug trip in addition to food chemicals. I'm not offended in the least bit by you calling my symptoms the result of a chemical imbalance. Everything is chemicals/matter, and if they're not in balance things aren't quite right.. so, pretty well every neurological disorder could be called a chemical imbalance, really.

By stating that only those with confirmed brain structure differences have "real autism," you're implying that anyone without such a visual confirmation's autism is somehow not real. That's a bit insulting and offensive, as I assure you my and others symptoms are very real, regardless of the root cause of them. At that, it's unknown whether there are multiple causes of the same autism symptoms or not, and since the diagnosis is symptomatic & behavioural vs. brain scan dependant, every case is just as real as the next.


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29 Jun 2014, 6:28 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Because you are referring to confirmed brain scan diagnosis of structural differences in the brain as "real autism," and the textbook autism symptoms I've experienced all my life as somehow "not real autism." I assure you that my life's experiences were absolutely textbook autism as per Dr. Attwood's book, and that my symptoms have been largely alleviated by the diet and herbal protocol I've followed.


Just read my 2nd post, I explained why I used the word "real", I just meant that your brain is probably "normal", as opposed to people who were born with an autistic brain.

Quote:
I've never read about any such differentiation besides in your posts. Further, I've never heard of brain scans like these being used as a diagnostic tool to confirm an autism diagnosis. This is because it isn't done. An expert psychiatrist would do a verbal interview & behavioural diagnosis, and possibly rely on answers to written questionnaires and such, in order to give someone a diagnosis. I can all but guarantee that everyone on these forums with official diagnoses will likely state that their diagnosis was conversational/observational & possibly included a written component but I very highly doubt anyone will say they had their brain scanned and that brain structures were analyzed and compared to Temple Grandin's in order to receive a diagnosis as autistic.


Again you extrapolated and misunderstood my statements. I never said that scans of the brain were used as a diagnostic tool . What I did say, is that the fact that certain areas of the brain are "overdevelopped" while others are "underdevelopped" is visible on scans of Temple Grandin and Daniel Tammet's brains (and many other people). I also said that one day science might be advanced enough to do all the tests possible to determine the cause of Autism in each person (including brain scans).

Quote:
I have no idea whether my brain structure is different or not. I've never had my brain scanned. As per the thread in my sig, I'm certain that autism symptoms are caused by chemical imbalances. I've referred to this as a "food chemical induced drug trip," but now with further information it may also be a bacteria generated chemical induced drug trip in addition to food chemicals. I'm not offended in the least bit by you calling my symptoms the result of a chemical imbalance. Everything is chemicals/matter, and if they're not in balance things aren't quite right.. so, pretty well every neurological disorder could be called a chemical imbalance, really.


You did seem pretty upset because you thought I meant that your symptoms were "imaginary" tho (which I didn't).

Quote:
By stating that only those with confirmed brain structure differences have "real autism," you're implying that anyone without such a visual confirmation's autism is somehow not real. That's a bit insulting and offensive, as I assure you my and others symptoms are very real, regardless of the root cause of them. At that, it's unknown whether there are multiple causes of the same autism symptoms or not, and since the diagnosis is symptomatic & behavioural vs. brain scan dependant, every case is just as real as the next.


I explained that I couldn't think of another word (and I said so), by real I meant actually physical, observable through brain scans, when you can see the areas that are "overdevelopped" or "underdevelopped" (like for Temple Grandin, she doesn't only have a very developped visual cortex, she also has other areas of her brain that are "underdevelopped"), and certain circuits/links that would not be there normally (like for Daniel Tammet). And a diet won't change this anymore than you would be able to grow a finger through a diet. The best it can do, assuming you found the right ingredients, is the same as medication, where it will alleviate some symptoms.


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Last edited by Shadi2 on 29 Jun 2014, 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.