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yournamehere
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21 Aug 2014, 10:53 am

Spectacles wrote:
yournamehere wrote:
KingdomOfRats wrote:
yournamehere wrote:
Well I think they do have one for behaving that way, and you cannot make me believe otherwise. If someone wants to be ignorant, and project a negative view towards you, about you, I cannot see ANY other way to describe it. This is a strange and unhealthy behavior. It can make me, and others sick. It is a behavior that is wrong, and rarely changes. they know full well what they are doing, and why (it makes sence to them). This is not your typical natural bull elephant, butts heads with the teenage elephant in order to get him to stop picking on the little animals, and wrecking the trees type of scenario. If she is playing a "who's the boss" game, than her tact is all out of whack. It is disordered.

I am happy for you to have such a positive support structure. of course as you said it did not come without some form of change, or training on both parts I'm sure. It should show you how people were just brought up wrong. With disorders like a chain going back thousands of years. Hundreds of generations, and beyond.

I am not without serious flaws either. Some things, and some people never change.

Dealing with behaviors like this are my biggest weakness. I want to fix it. It's broke. I think it is wrong. You usually can't fix things like this. unfortunately.

fair point,we all have our own perception of things and am not going to argue against that.
am in agreement about the behaviors and do hate them, but am not sure how personality disorder can explain this behavior for every patronising oaf am coming across,as that woud put the levels of PD people at a very high rate,surely full blown PDs are a lot rarer to come across.


My thoughts about it are extreme. From all the problems I have had with people, I believe the definition of PD's are vastly understated, and the statistical ratios. Especially if you consider how well documented it is for these people to hide it. Just watch the news, and wonder who would make such a thing, and how many enjoy watching it. Even something as "good" as sports is really just just another form of escape to fantasy for most. Just another part of the PD supply. Catastrophizing, chaos manufaturing, circular conversations, and many other things. All in there. Every day. Completely sociopathic manufacturing. Like a plague of projection transference and control. IT'S EVERYWHERE.

I must be crazy. I need therapy.


I thought of this after reading your post. http://ideas.time.com/2012/05/04/is-racism-an-illness/
Prejudice in general is based on holding incorrect views/thinking about a whole group of people, which makes medicalizing supporting behaviors and beliefs appealing (if it's wrong, then it can be fixed). But these views don't just exist in the minds/brains of individuals. This is a systemic problem, like you've pointed out, that manifests itself in the way media constructs views, by the way individual cultures explain and thus treat social differences, by what cultures value (an objectified, starving, apersonal runway model vs an awesome, caring, overweight person, or extroversion/appearance of confidence vs sincere, reserved skepticism), etc. It's really f****d up how a lot of people here (present poster included) have been mistreated by others, and that needs to change. It's frustrating, but I've found compassion and patience education (which might be the same thing) to be the most effective ways of producing that change on a personal level. Though becoming a grump and refusing to deal with societies' sh** is another strategy that looks quite appealing at times (this one works for lots of people as well).


That has got to be one of the most intelligent things I have heard all month. However, like most of these so called disorders, I would have to say that the racist thing is one I grew out of without therapy, or a pill. I grew up in american white suburbia. It was definately projected. Now my area is the largest racial sespool in the world, and I am all over it. I don't care if you're green, and from another planet, I just hope you can speak english, and have somekind of developed human decency. I am still working on more of that. Everyone should.


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21 Aug 2014, 11:07 am

Pretty well - can't complain, I guess. :)


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21 Aug 2014, 5:04 pm

Responses like your instructor are why I don't tell anyone. It's hurtful enough that I was talked to like a confused child about my problems on a forum like this, but since it's not apparent that I have Asperger's in real-life at this point I can enjoy being viewed as some combination of soft-spoken, intelligent, and weird.

I wish there were a way for me to help with the idea of people with Asperger's and Autism needing to be spoken to like that, but I'm not willing to bring that kind of treatment into my life to try to prove them wrong...



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22 Aug 2014, 1:38 pm

yournamehere wrote:
iRunforfun wrote:
Everytime I tell an NT that I have autism, they don't believe me. I've had undiagnosed Autism for almost 23 years... therefore I've built myself a LOT of compensation mechanisms, to the point where I think I do a pretty good job of hiding my Aspie quirks... usually.

I also find NTs frustrating to speak with as they almost NEVER understand what I'm trying to say. I also find a majority of people to be oblivious, insensitive and rude. Maybe it's just an NT thing. I don't know.

I hate generalizing people though :(


I see an error.

It says your age is 22. That would mean you were undiagnosed at -1 ? :wink:
i think i see your error.

"almost 23" is not the same as "23", while 22 - especially if one has been 22 for quite some months - is indeed "almost 23".

when conversing with people with ASD, it is generally good to pay attention to the exact phrasing they use.



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22 Aug 2014, 5:14 pm

KingdomOfRats wrote:
[. . .]
yesterday was treated like did not exist or any say in a matter; at nine am,two blokes finaly called around [no phonecall] to fit a 'tough furniture' cabinet to the wall in bedroom and was asleep in bed at the time; in just a sports bra and nappy.
woke up in a massive panic from their banging and surprise visit,fell off the bed ,self injured on the wall and hit out at them because was in so much overload, the workers never even stopped they carried on using heavy duty drills right next to self- did not exist to them,fking unbelievable.

have got two support staff but one of them was busy showing around the parents and social worker of a possible new resident and the other was aparently running around in the hall not knowing what to do,asking them to wait while and letting the resident get changed and out of the room woud have been helpful.


Wow... I think that if this happened to me, it would take me weeks to recover. I hope you're doing ok.



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22 Aug 2014, 7:33 pm

Yes, KoR's incident with the cabinet installers is a complete nightmare, and I too would be freaked and angry for a long time about this. The lack of sensitivity is shocking, to be honest.

KoR, I also want to say I hope you're managing to recover emotionally from this. That was just....total crap, what they did. Is there someone you can complain to -- the company they work for?

.



yournamehere
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22 Aug 2014, 10:50 pm

Hi_Im_B0B wrote:
yournamehere wrote:
iRunforfun wrote:
Everytime I tell an NT that I have autism, they don't believe me. I've had undiagnosed Autism for almost 23 years... therefore I've built myself a LOT of compensation mechanisms, to the point where I think I do a pretty good job of hiding my Aspie quirks... usually.

I also find NTs frustrating to speak with as they almost NEVER understand what I'm trying to say. I also find a majority of people to be oblivious, insensitive and rude. Maybe it's just an NT thing. I don't know.

I hate generalizing people though :(


I see an error.

It says your age is 22. That would mean you were undiagnosed at -1 ? :wink:
i think i see your error.

"almost 23" is not the same as "23", while 22 - especially if one has been 22 for quite some months - is indeed "almost 23".

when conversing with people with ASD, it is generally good to pay attention to the exact phrasing they use.


O.k. my bad. It is undiagnosed at zero? That makes more sence then? However, not nothing, is actually something.


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23 Aug 2014, 9:26 pm

They treat me like a dangerous insect, that must be squashed quickly, lol. Watching too much Titanic, I guess.

They usually make me feel awkward, especially people around my age. I get an awkward feel from the and they just act different, I'm not sure how to describe it.
I'd rather the someone acting childish around me, someone underestimating me.



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25 Aug 2014, 4:21 pm

The way people treat me can be very interesting, and very telling. I don't have an official diagnosis, so in school & professional settings I can't say anything about autism.

Typical reaction of NTs if I say nothing: "You're too much of a perfectionist! Stop taking so long to do your work! Just do it close enough and fast!"

Reaction of NTs if I say something about my learning disability/med side effects: "That happens to me too. You just need to prepare better." NB: they usually think it happens to them because I used an analogy to explain it to them. And people think we're overly literal?

Reaction of NTs online if I say something about autism: "Your argument is invalid. You're only saying that because of your illogical compulsion to categorise things."



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25 Aug 2014, 7:52 pm

Spectacles wrote:
I thought of this after reading your post. http://ideas.time.com/2012/05/04/is-racism-an-illness/
Prejudice in general is based on holding incorrect views/thinking about a whole group of people, which makes medicalizing supporting behaviors and beliefs appealing (if it's wrong, then it can be fixed). But these views don't just exist in the minds/brains of individuals. This is a systemic problem, like you've pointed out, that manifests itself in the way media constructs views, by the way individual cultures explain and thus treat social differences, by what cultures value (an objectified, starving, apersonal runway model vs an awesome, caring, overweight person, or extroversion/appearance of confidence vs sincere, reserved skepticism),.


Yes, it's the hive mind. It's a system intelligence, and not an individual intelligence.
It supports and drives separation, which serves systems of hierarchy.

If you isolate an individual behaving this way and question them about specific logical justifications, then they usually cannot answer you. They are just doing what they feel is intuitively correct to do.
The individuals do not create these algorithms. They just download them and carry out the instructions.

edit==>
This is the same process at play that allowed Nazis and other Germans to treat other people as sub-human.



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25 Aug 2014, 7:58 pm

Tiffany_Aching wrote:
Reaction of NTs if I say something about my learning disability/med side effects: "That happens to me too. You just need to prepare better." NB: they usually think it happens to them because I used an analogy to explain it to them. And people think we're overly literal?


lol. Yes, the "misreading" definitely works in both directions.
It's a communications disconnect.



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25 Aug 2014, 8:57 pm

olympiadis wrote:
Spectacles wrote:
I thought of this after reading your post. http://ideas.time.com/2012/05/04/is-racism-an-illness/
Prejudice in general is based on holding incorrect views/thinking about a whole group of people, which makes medicalizing supporting behaviors and beliefs appealing (if it's wrong, then it can be fixed). But these views don't just exist in the minds/brains of individuals. This is a systemic problem, like you've pointed out, that manifests itself in the way media constructs views, by the way individual cultures explain and thus treat social differences, by what cultures value (an objectified, starving, apersonal runway model vs an awesome, caring, overweight person, or extroversion/appearance of confidence vs sincere, reserved skepticism),.


Yes, it's the hive mind. It's a system intelligence, and not an individual intelligence.
It supports and drives separation, which serves systems of hierarchy.


olympiadis wrote:
If you isolate an individual behaving this way and question them about specific logical justifications, then they usually cannot answer you. They are just doing what they feel is intuitively correct to do.

The individuals do not create these algorithms. They just download them and carry out the instructions.


Your hivemind theory consists of a firm belief that the majority of NTs are psychopaths preoccupied with a conceptual, 'imaginary' world. Despite this, all backing evidence provided seems to emanate from a personal perspective alone - a conceptual foundation, as you are not NT.

I have noticed that you (like myself) are quick to respond when a thread concerns NTs. Due to the nature of your posts, I deduce that the most likely reasons for this are that you are either heavily interested in a topic of discussion relevant to NTs (may be slightly precluded), or that you have a vested interest for or against NTs specifically.

I am perplexed by your decision in forcing the idea of a hivemind whenever the opportunity arises, as no evidence has been provided that shows clearly the differences you describe being caused exclusively by NT neurology, especially as there exists evidence to the contrary (anecdotes by autistic posters for example).

Using external evidence, can you provide reason to believe the following statements are factually correct?

1. The majority of NTs are preoccupied with an imaginary world, rendering them psychopathic (additionally, why non-NTs are not susceptible to this)
2. A 'hivemind' or 'system intelligence' drives NT behaviour, rather than emotional/social connection, or other phenomena

If you choose to answer, I ask that you avoid confirmation bias. For example, in the post quoted above, you stated that 'they usually cannot answer you' when referring to questioning individual behaviour such as racism, preceding a mildly presumptuous conclusion that such individuals simply 'download [the algorithms] and carry out the instructions'.

This post is not emotionally charged. I am legitimately curious of your motives and reasoning.


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25 Aug 2014, 10:04 pm

i've never gotten to know anyone who isn't NT well, so i don't really have anything to compare that to.

but i'm treated rather well. i could do without the occasional ignorant comment or belittlment but otherwise i have no complaints. :alien:


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25 Aug 2014, 10:19 pm

Most NTs have been tolerable once I've known them long enough, but maybe I'm comparing it to the fact that I was treated like crap by my peers as a child



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25 Aug 2014, 10:47 pm

russiank12 wrote:
I had to tell one of my professors that I have accommodations and she pretty much forced me to tell here what was 'wrong' with me. I told her I'm autistic and this was the first time I've told anybody I haven't known for most of my life. She said, "Wow, you're so high-functioning!! !!" and patted me on the back (which I HATE!). Then, today she saw that I completed all my homework and said, "Wow, good job! You did really well!" in a really childish voice and to the rest of the class she just passed by and said nothing. I feel that she is treating me like I'm a child or have a learning disability and it's really annoying me. I've only been in her class for two days so maybe she will see I am a very competent person. What can I do to stop this if she doesn't see? And how have others treated you?


I had a professor who treated me like that two semesters ago: she treated me perfectly normally until I told her I have Asperger's, then all of a sudden she started smiling really wide whenever she saw me, like you do with little kids, she also put more inflection in her voice and made everything sound exciting and upbeat. She'd try to force eye contact by manoeuvring her head so that it was within my line of sight, even if I happened to be looking at the floor. She was a good professor, and I appreciated her for trying, but it was clear that in spite of her doctorate in psychology, she didn't know much about ASDs.


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25 Aug 2014, 11:19 pm

Norny wrote:
Your hivemind theory consists of a firm belief that the majority of NTs are psychopaths preoccupied with a conceptual, 'imaginary' world. Despite this, all backing evidence provided seems to emanate from a personal perspective alone - a conceptual foundation, as you are not NT.

I have noticed that you (like myself) are quick to respond when a thread concerns NTs. Due to the nature of your posts, I deduce that the most likely reasons for this are that you are either heavily interested in a topic of discussion relevant to NTs (may be slightly precluded), or that you have a vested interest for or against NTs specifically.

I am perplexed by your decision in forcing the idea of a hivemind whenever the opportunity arises, as no evidence has been provided that shows clearly the differences you describe being caused exclusively by NT neurology, especially as there exists evidence to the contrary (anecdotes by autistic posters for example).

Using external evidence, can you provide reason to believe the following statements are factually correct?

1. The majority of NTs are preoccupied with an imaginary world, rendering them psychopathic (additionally, why non-NTs are not susceptible to this)
2. A 'hivemind' or 'system intelligence' drives NT behaviour, rather than emotional/social connection, or other phenomena

If you choose to answer, I ask that you avoid confirmation bias. For example, in the post quoted above, you stated that 'they usually cannot answer you' when referring to questioning individual behaviour such as racism, preceding a mildly presumptuous conclusion that such individuals simply 'download [the algorithms] and carry out the instructions'.


No, because what you stated is not exactly what I stated, and suggests things that I do not.
Yes, I can provide reason for what I stated.

1. Examples abound but I'll start with just one. Money. The association of money with value in the mind is completely conceptual and not real. You can't eat it or directly use it for survival. It's only paper. If you go back in time 500 years, it's only paper. If you go 500 years into the future, it's only paper. If you show it to an extraterrestrial, it's only paper. The ONLY way possession of this paper can result in anything of value to survival is when you are with other humans who share the same mind virus as you, and believe the same concepts of value that you believe. It's all imaginary. It is only a group of ideas, or algorithms that are shared amongst a hive. It is a system intelligence with a one-to-many topology.
Preoccupied? Absolutely. Most humans base the majority of their lives on this imaginary belief.
The beliefs are downloaded to the young starting at an early age, and reinforced by conditioning throughout life.
Remove this downloading and conditioning and a human has no natural knowledge or instinct for money. Humans naturally have instincts that apply to real things.

The hive mind does not create psychopaths. I never said that.
The hive mind is a huge set of self-serving algorithms, much as a computer virus. The hive mind does not experience feelings. Psychopaths take to the hive mind like a fish in water. They use the algorithms to ascend, and to manipulate others. The non-psychopaths learn and yearn to imitate the psychopaths and/or to at least behave in ways that are acceptable to the hive. The hive mind is completely separate from the existence of psychopaths. The psychopaths are the predators that swim with the school of fish, and often lead them.

Psychopaths are also separate from NT/ASD.
The NTs are the majority of the fish in the school, and for the most part imitate a great many behaviors of the psychopaths, and/or other NTs that have gained authority or popularity through imitation.
ASD folks also attempt to imitate NTs, due to the "need" to fit into the group. The "need" can come internally, or through environmental pressures, - to avoid attention or punishments.

Because anyone can be imitating the group behavior, you may have made some incorrect assumptions about what really separates the different neurotypes.

Neurotypes are not accurately distinguished by superficial type behaviors. The differences are in how the brain stores, recalls, and processes information, and that can be deduced by closely following decision-making processes at the most basic level possible. Preferably this is done before decisions are translated by conscious identity, or simulated identity, which obviously skews the outward behaviors into what is expected by the hive or as close as possible by ASD folks that are simulating.

A specific difference between the neurotypes is what constitutes their perception of primary reality. More specifically this is about what filters there are and where they are placed, the nature of what comes into conscious thought from the unconscious, and where the final decisions are being made. A relevant example of a filter is the determination of what is real and what is conceptual/imaginary.
From that point information is then stored differently, as either real, or imaginary. It is later utilized by the thought process (within algorithms) based on how it was stored.

In order to live your entire life essentially worshiping a concept such as money, you will have committed the conceptual information to your unconscious memory as a "real" and complete experience, and so then when recalled it seems intuitively as real to you as a rock would. Using this information in though is not delayed, and requires no extra effort consciously.

What is mentally done & assumed intuitively by NTs in the subconscious part of their brains must be simulated conceptually in the conscious part of the ASD's brains. This includes all the algorithms of the hive mind, which are 100% based on conceptual information.

The hive mind is the set of conceptual algorithms that is shared throughout society, but become powerless if no other humans are around. If all human brains vanished, then what is still left in existence is the "real".

The hive algorithms are not stored the same with ASD folks, so it can never operate at an intuitive level. They are stored as associated data instead of complete experiences. They are stored as imaginary, and later utilized by conscious though with great effort.

It's not that non-NTs are not susceptible to the hive mind. It's that the hive mind never becomes the primary reality for most non-NTs. I have to allow for some exceptions due to the nature of the spectrum disorder. Primary reality vs simulation.

The hive algorithms are not static, but like other self-organizing codes evolve over time within an ever changing environment of other competing algorithms/ideas. It's called memetics.

These algorithms are extremely aggressive and incredibly powerful.
When the brain perceives something is real, there is great potential power to trigger and affect chemical reward pathways. If this isn't already incredibly obvious, I'll throw in the example of people playing slots in a casino. Look at them and you will see the result of the power that comes from something that isn't real, - the anticipation of each person winning jackpot.


So here we are to #2.
Yes the hive mind drives NT behaviors, NOT rather than emotion, but THROUGH emotional manipulation, and the resulting chemical rewards in the brain.
It's the satisfaction of performing the correct behavior in front of an audience and gaining acceptance of the hive. It's avoiding punishment. It's a chemical feel-good for obeying the hive algorithms. This drives NTs. The special interest of NTs is social acceptance, and keeping a regular supply of chemical feel-good coming in the brain.

The hive algorithms have evolved long ago to trigger emotions and release reward chemicals.
In response, the brain has over-developed the area of the brain that hosts the hive software, - a much expanded capacity for imagination and integrating it into conscious thought. There is a symbiosis between the chemical process and the structures of the algorithms. The algorithms want more power to control and spread, and the brain wants more chemical feel-good rewards.