Is trial&error the only way to learn if something's rude

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hey_there
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19 Aug 2014, 2:58 am

Well, knowing wether or not something is wrong/inappropriate/rude to say or do. Is trial and error pretty much the only way?
What about saying "Please let me know if I've said/done anything inappropriate/wrong/rude", or if your planning on talking to someone asking someone else other than that person "Would it be wrong/rude/inappropriate to _____________? beforehand, or asking "What's the best way to _____________?
Do you guys do these things?



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19 Aug 2014, 3:25 am

Trial and error pretty much summed it up for me, especially as a kid and young adult. I look back in horror at some of things I said to people in all innocence, sometimes trying to be helpful or comforting and accidentally doing the exact opposite. One of my classmates mother died when we were 10 and I tried to tell her to look on the positive side and gave her reasons why her mother dying could be a good thing. (( massive facepalm now )). My life was full of such clumsy communications. Even now aged 54 I'm still considered verbally clumsy and sometimes rude or too blunt; not by intention though. You just have to learn what offends people - assuming you can even tell.


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19 Aug 2014, 3:42 am

For me, a lot of it is trial and error. But at work I do ask my colleagues before sending a potentially risque email if what I have typed is appropriate. Also if we're going to a meeting or something, I will often tell them what I'm planning to say beforehand and they will give me some tips or tell me if I'm just being ridiculously inappropriate. Sometimes it also works the other way, in that, if something slips out during a meeting - I can ask them afterwards, was that appropriate? And if it was I can go apologise to whomever I said it to.

For example, before one of our meetings started, one of the head honchos was in the room and we got to chatting about how she was engaged but her engagement ring was too big. She said she was going to get her ring resized and I replied "or you could just get fatter", in jest. She was kind of like :O and laughed, then everyone else laughed, but then after the meeting I asked if it was appropriate because I wasn't expecting her to gasp and my colleagues said that by telling her to get fatter, I implied she is already fat - and trust me, she's not, she's got the body of a supermodel. I meant that she should just put on weight and grow into the ring. So I apologised to her afterward and she was all good with it.

Most people that I have a close working relationship with understand that sometimes I just say/do weird stuff, haha. I have them to thank for allowing me to remain employed lol.



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19 Aug 2014, 4:13 am

My parents taught me a lot of manners but I still have to learn a lot from trial and error. It's amazing how few social norms I actually know. I thought I was better at them because my parents were sticklers about manners but there are so many unwritten social rules that I still mess up all the time.


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hey_there
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19 Aug 2014, 4:20 am

Permanence wrote:
For me, a lot of it is trial and error. But at work I do ask my colleagues before sending a potentially risque email if what I have typed is appropriate. Also if we're going to a meeting or something, I will often tell them what I'm planning to say beforehand and they will give me some tips or tell me if I'm just being ridiculously inappropriate. Sometimes it also works the other way, in that, if something slips out during a meeting - I can ask them afterwards, was that appropriate? And if it was I can go apologise to whomever I said it to.

For example, before one of our meetings started, one of the head honchos was in the room and we got to chatting about how she was engaged but her engagement ring was too big. She said she was going to get her ring resized and I replied "or you could just get fatter", in jest. She was kind of like :O and laughed, then everyone else laughed, but then after the meeting I asked if it was appropriate because I wasn't expecting her to gasp and my colleagues said that by telling her to get fatter, I implied she is already fat - and trust me, she's not, she's got the body of a supermodel. I meant that she should just put on weight and grow into the ring. So I apologised to her afterward and she was all good with it.

Most people that I have a close working relationship with understand that sometimes I just say/do weird stuff, haha. I have them to thank for allowing me to remain employed lol.

The engagement ring thing....... whoops haha :P Thank goodness she was forgiving though.
You know what sucks though? when you learn something is inappropriate/rude/wrong but not knowing weather its wrong only in certain situations or wrong in any situation, so every time the situation is different its a new game of trial and error :lol: :roll:......... at least that's how it seems to be for me.



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19 Aug 2014, 5:06 am

I would have never in a million years guessed that what you said implied that she was already fat. If you had said it to me I would have understood what you said exactly as you did and I would have found it funny. Maybe Aspies tend to think more like each other.


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19 Aug 2014, 5:08 am

skibum wrote:
I would have never in a million years guessed that what you said implied that she was already fat. If you had said it to me I would have understood what you said exactly as you did and I would have found it funny. Maybe Aspies tend to think more like each other.


Quite likely. We tend to take statements (or jokes) at face value rather than add the layers of sub-text that NTs do. I've often been accused of being patronising with comments, but they aren't intended that way... I guess that most NTs saying exactly the same thing would have been intending an insult with those very same words.


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19 Aug 2014, 5:27 am

TallyMan wrote:
skibum wrote:
I would have never in a million years guessed that what you said implied that she was already fat. If you had said it to me I would have understood what you said exactly as you did and I would have found it funny. Maybe Aspies tend to think more like each other.


Quite likely. We tend to take statements (or jokes) at face value rather than add the layers of sub-text that NTs do. I've often been accused of being patronising with comments, but they aren't intended that way... I guess that most NTs saying exactly the same thing would have been intending an insult with those very same words.
Unless they happen to have verbal impulse control issues :wink:



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19 Aug 2014, 5:42 am

TallyMan wrote:
One of my classmates mother died when we were 10 and I tried to tell her to look on the positive side and gave her reasons why her mother dying could be a good thing.

You should have used this example from Frankl's logotherapy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logotherap ... ng_meaning



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19 Aug 2014, 5:55 am

Humanaut wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
One of my classmates mother died when we were 10 and I tried to tell her to look on the positive side and gave her reasons why her mother dying could be a good thing.

You should have used this example from Frankl's logotherapy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logotherap ... ng_meaning


As a ten year old, that wouldn't even have occurred to me. My life is full of such social interaction blunders. I've learned over the years to keep my mouth shut about various emotive topics rather than risk say anything that may offend. Apparently when most people are suffering they tend to want supportive and compassionate words rather than practical advice but I don't know how to express emotional support other than using other people's words e.g. "I'm sorry for your loss" which is a useful phrase if someone dies but not really usable for the multitude of life's other miseries and problems. The problem is further compounded by an inability to read other people's body language or facial expressions very well, so unless they get visibly angry or storm off it is often difficult to know if what I've said is appropriate or not when they don't respond verbally.


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19 Aug 2014, 5:56 am

skibum wrote:
I would have never in a million years guessed that what you said implied that she was already fat. If you had said it to me I would have understood what you said exactly as you did and I would have found it funny. Maybe Aspies tend to think more like each other.
At first when I read that I thought it was funny, but then when it said that she had a (thin) supermodel body I understood that it implied that.



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19 Aug 2014, 6:02 am

hey_there wrote:
skibum wrote:
I would have never in a million years guessed that what you said implied that she was already fat. If you had said it to me I would have understood what you said exactly as you did and I would have found it funny. Maybe Aspies tend to think more like each other.
At first when I read that I thought it was funny, but then when it said that she had a (thin) supermodel body I understood that it implied that.


Weight/size is one of those topics I learned long ago not to joke about or mention regarding women. It can be a very touchy subject and very easy to cause offence. One of the classics is asking a woman with an extended abdomen when she is expecting her baby only to be told "I'm not pregnant! :x " Oops. :oops:


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19 Aug 2014, 6:14 am

Manners, observing, trial and error, tv.

Though tv tells lies sometimes.. people don't seem to follow the same script.
I can now look at a scene and say, "as if."


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19 Aug 2014, 6:18 am

TallyMan wrote:
Apparently when most people are suffering they tend to want supportive and compassionate words rather than practical advice but I don't know how to express emotional support other than using other people's words e.g. "I'm sorry for your loss" which is a useful phrase if someone dies but not really usable for the multitude of life's other miseries and problems.


That's the reason i choose to do not try to help in those situations. I usually think that, if someone is telling me about a problem or about something sad, they want me to help them find a solution when sometimes, as you said, they just need to hear things like "i'm sorry" but that doesn't make sense to me.
About the topic, almost everything that i learned about social situations was through trial and error but nowadays i have people that help me when i don't notice that i'm acting inconveniently. Both things work.



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19 Aug 2014, 9:44 am

hey_there wrote:
skibum wrote:
I would have never in a million years guessed that what you said implied that she was already fat. If you had said it to me I would have understood what you said exactly as you did and I would have found it funny. Maybe Aspies tend to think more like each other.
At first when I read that I thought it was funny, but then when it said that she had a (thin) supermodel body I understood that it implied that.
And this is interesting because even knowing that she had a supermodel body, I would not have made the connection that it implied what they said it implied. I did not connect the two at all and I probably would never have thought to connect them if it had not been mentioned.

However, I do make connections about other things which are COMPLETELY not connected AT ALL at first glance and when I do that it really throws people off in conversation. It drives my husband nuts sometimes. My brother is better about it. He just kind of says, "okay" and he is able to switch gears with me and answer my questions or kind of just go with the flow of my thoughts.

It reminds me of one thread where someone posted a cute acrostic using the word "Asperger's" and one of the letters was talking about weird associations and said, "The number 11 reminds me of white bread dipped in tomato sauce." I would make weird associations like that would make total 100% sense to me but not to anyone else. In my understanding they would be completely connected. But the assumption that your comment to this girl would have implied that she was fat, if you had not explained that implication to me, I would have never been able to come up with that.


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19 Aug 2014, 9:50 am

I would interpret it as implying that the lady is not fat at all--but is a supermodel--and that the person wishes that the lady was "fatter," in a sense--perhaps expressing envy at her supermodel body. Who knows?

I've had to learn about social norms, and how not to offend people, through lots and lots of trial and error.