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Tiffany_Aching
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11 Sep 2014, 10:49 pm

starkid wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
It's actually not something that can be measured precisely and there are different kinds of intelligence...also sometimes things like distractions, or having an 'off' day while taking one can effect results.


Well, if it cannot be measured precisely, then how can you determine that IQ tests aren't measuring it correctly? You would have nothing with which to compare the IQ test results.


Because it's very easy to see if someone with a "low" IQ nevertheless displays high intelligence outside of the test setting, or vice-versa.

Also, IQ tests are well known to not cross cultural boundaries.



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11 Sep 2014, 11:37 pm

starkid wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
It's actually not something that can be measured precisely and there are different kinds of intelligence...also sometimes things like distractions, or having an 'off' day while taking one can effect results.


Well, if it cannot be measured precisely, then how can you determine that IQ tests aren't measuring it correctly? You would have nothing with which to compare the IQ test results.


How can something that cannot be seen, felt, touched, tasted, heard, weighed, or physically detected in any way, be precisely measured? That is my whole point it is too vauge to be used as a point of reference for the functioning level of someone with autism in my opinion.


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11 Sep 2014, 11:40 pm

Tiffany_Aching wrote:
starkid wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
It's actually not something that can be measured precisely and there are different kinds of intelligence...also sometimes things like distractions, or having an 'off' day while taking one can effect results.


Well, if it cannot be measured precisely, then how can you determine that IQ tests aren't measuring it correctly? You would have nothing with which to compare the IQ test results.


Because it's very easy to see if someone with a "low" IQ nevertheless displays high intelligence outside of the test setting, or vice-versa.

Also, IQ tests are well known to not cross cultural boundaries.


Also having issues like being exceptionally good at reading but absolutely terrible at math can also effect the score...I'd think. Not sure I've even had my IQ tested but I figure that would effect it to where it might not accurately reflect my over-all 'intelligence'.


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12 Sep 2014, 12:05 am

From what i am told on my forums i am intelligent....but i have many imparements that make me like a little kid. I need help in a lot of areas the same as a 5 year old. I appear as severely autistic to those who don't know better.



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12 Sep 2014, 1:23 am

It is obvious that there are a number of people with severe classic autism who are not the least bit lacking in intelligence. There are a number on this forum and some on this thread. I'm guessing that they might be considered low functioning because they need a great deal of assistance. When I see a fourteen year old express themselves more articulately and with greater insight than most university educated neotypical adults -whatever the mechanism is that limits their independence it is obviously not a lack of intelligence.


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12 Sep 2014, 2:05 am

btbnnyr wrote:
The division between HFA and LFA is based on IQ cutoff = 70, not on who can pass for NT or other vague factors.


I think I agree with previous poster that there are plenty of WP members who post highly articulate and informative posts who classify themselves as moderate to severely autistic.

In this context IQ is a self-evident poor overall indicator of functionality.

Seems to be five factors I've identified
1. Verbal Communication - Those who excel in this variable are firmly in the HF Aspie camp

2. Non-Verbal communication - Plenty of HF folk seem to bomb out on this one

3. Written communication - Quite clearly almost everybody on WP does ok on this indicator when posting on this forum. I'm inclined to think if you can type articulately then it compensates more than adequately for factors 1 and 2 and should be a partial substitute for silly IQ tests.

4. Nuero-Motor function - Again plenty of HF folk have some motor and balance issues. Some more severe than others. This impacts on the mobility function.

5. Executive function - Finally attention and concentration varies as well. Many HF WP members are not high on this variable either.

I think there's also math/problem solving skills. music and other specialised skills which are also not the exclusive domain of high functioning folks.

It really then boils down to Variable 1 + ability to pass an IQ test = Aspergers. Everything else can be classified as low, severe. moderate or high functioning autism.



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12 Sep 2014, 4:52 am

LokiofSassgard wrote:
Lumi wrote:
MFA definition is not official. For example, I am moderate functioning and too severe to fake. I may not ever live without assistance...


This is me right here. I'm like a little child trapped in the body of an adult. I can't function on an adult level at all, and I struggle greatly with doing most adult-related living skills as well. Like, I can dress myself, use the bathroom and do those sort of things. I can do my own laundry, which it took me years to actually learn how to comprehend that idea. I have a distinct feeling that I'm between high functioning and low-functioning, but then again... my autism varies depending on my mood as well. One day could be a perfectly good, normal day... while another could be totally off balance for me.

I have extremely severe anxiety as well. It's hard for me to even go to hospital without severely spazzing out over needles and IVs and not knowing what's going to happen next either. Hospitals don't seem to realize that I'm on the spectrum, and it makes it harder for me to get treatment, even if I'm so freaked out that I'm sobbing so much I can't breathe. It's happened to me before where I've actually had a nurse threaten to have to security guards come in to hold me down while she drugs me for an IV.

The problem with my ASD is that I border between classic autism and AS. I have the communication skills for AS, but all my other traits end up falling under classic autism. Like how I flap my arms, squeal like a banshee and get all wound up or when I'm screaming bloody murder in tears because something didn't go the way I had originally planned. People don't normally see the autism until they see me on the floor, having one of my episodes... even then they don't quite understand it very well at all.

I don't really know where I am on the spectrum, but I know I have a lot of issues with certain things. I also have an IQ between 70 and 85 as well, so it's really hard to say where I stand too.


With your linguistic abilities, I would have honestly never guessed you had an IQ between 70 and 85, unless you mentioned otherwise, which you did. The last time I took an IQ test, apparently I scored 125, though this was a long time ago. I used to spill my thoughts into my keyboard with ease when I was younger, though I find dealing with language to have become somewhat more awkward for me as time has progressed. My writing skills have atrophied significantly since I finished Grade 12 English, back in 2011. Maybe I've just become more self conscious, I don't know.

Anyway, IQ-wise, I should be above-average, and hell a lot of people tell me that I'm this brilliant person, but the truth is, I really don't feel all that smart. When it comes to basic life skills, common sense stuff that other people have no trouble with, I'm probably "medium functioning". I'm not all that good at doing household chores, nor can I keep my cool well enough to manage getting and keeping a job. I'm also incredibly lazy and disorganized, and my executive functioning stinks. I do things slowly, and the rest of the world wants me to go fast. I don't do fast.

I probably just have extremely low self-esteem. I definitely seemed "higher functioning" when I was younger and more confident with myself, that's for sure.



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12 Sep 2014, 10:54 am

If I had to classify myself I'd say I'm medium functioning.

I'm very "book smart" but certainly inept when it comes to many real life things.

I've been told I'm "smart as a whip AND dumb as a post".

:D


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12 Sep 2014, 11:24 am

Tiffany_Aching wrote:
Because it's very easy to see if someone with a "low" IQ nevertheless displays high intelligence outside of the test setting, or vice-versa.

Also, IQ tests are well known to not cross cultural boundaries.


So you determine that IQ tests are not accurate by comparing the results with observations of people outside the test setting? And these observations provide the standard of intelligence?

This is what I don't understand: IQ testing is the only standardized and explicitly defined measure of intelligence that I know of. Usually, when people say "intelligence" they are talking about some vague, poorly defined, and relatively nonstandardized notion of collective stuff people do with their conscious mind. I assume this is what is being discussed in this thread. This is something quite different from IQ testing, so I don't understand the point of comparing the two, especially when someone's idea of intelligence includes abilities that aren't even tested by IQ testing procedures.

The IQ test has specific components meant to measure specific things in specific ways, to specific extents. If the testing fails to accurately do the specific things it is supposed to do, then that's a legitimate criticism, but I don't see how it's meaningful to say that it doesn't accurately or precisely measure "intelligence" without having some precise and similar definition of intelligence with which to compare it. It would be like my saying that the SAT doesn't accurately measure googletygobbledy. The statement would be meaningless because I have not defined googletygobbledy, and even after I did define it, the criticism would be irrelevant unless the SAT purported to measure the specific thing(s) that comprised the definition of googletygobbledy.



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12 Sep 2014, 11:40 am

EzraS wrote:
From what i am told on my forums i am intelligent....but i have many imparements that make me like a little kid. I need help in a lot of areas the same as a 5 year old. I appear as severely autistic to those who don't know better.

Just found out my social skills are poor enough, along with my small body -first guess an intellectual disability.


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Last edited by Lumi on 12 Sep 2014, 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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12 Sep 2014, 11:44 am

starkid wrote:
Tiffany_Aching wrote:
Because it's very easy to see if someone with a "low" IQ nevertheless displays high intelligence outside of the test setting, or vice-versa.

Also, IQ tests are well known to not cross cultural boundaries.


So you determine that IQ tests are not accurate by comparing the results with observations of people outside the test setting? And these observations provide the standard of intelligence?

This is what I don't understand: IQ testing is the only standardized and explicitly defined measure of intelligence that I know of. Usually, when people say "intelligence" they are talking about some vague, poorly defined, and relatively nonstandardized notion of collective stuff people do with their conscious mind. I assume this is what is being discussed in this thread. This is something quite different from IQ testing, so I don't understand the point of comparing the two, especially when someone's idea of intelligence includes abilities that aren't even tested by IQ testing procedures.

The IQ test has specific components meant to measure specific things in specific ways, to specific extents. If the testing fails to accurately do the specific things it is supposed to do, then that's a legitimate criticism, but I don't see how it's meaningful to say that it doesn't accurately or precisely measure "intelligence" without having some precise and similar definition of intelligence with which to compare it. It would be like my saying that the SAT doesn't accurately measure googletygobbledy. The statement would be meaningless because I have not defined googletygobbledy, and even after I did define it, the criticism would be irrelevant unless the SAT purported to measure the specific thing(s) that comprised the definition of googletygobbledy.


Intelligence is a vauge term by definition....but my whole point is regardless of all this. Why should functioning level be based on IQ when IQ does nothing to measure ones ability to 'function'.....So I think it would make more sense if they actually base ones functioning level on their ability to function not what their IQ is. Also some people are terrible at taking tests and could get a very low score in the IQ test that doesn't reflect their applied/practical intelligence or whatever might relfect they're a terrible test taker.

But don't want to derail this thread debating about if IQ is accurate or not....regardless just seems like an irrelevant thing to base functioning levels on and I'd be surprised if i am the only one that feels that way. It would make more sense to base it on how much the autism interferes with a persons ability to function regardless of what they score on an IQ test.


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12 Sep 2014, 12:23 pm

I've had many problems with IQ tests. I don't think any of my IQ tests really reflected my intelligence. I took my first IQ test when I was a little kid. When I took that test I wasn't very good at English, so I failed the language portion of the test. Based on that test they said that I had strengths in visual learning.

A year ago I took another IQ test. On this test my verbal IQ was 113 and my performance IQ was only 87. That score made me feel very crappy. I researched IQ tests and I found an interesting study.

It says that anxiety affects visual spatial skills, processing speed and short term memory more than language skills. That makes sense because I have a lot of anxiety problems. When I was a kid I probably thought the IQ test was just a game. They also tested me after I had a difficult music lesson.


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12 Sep 2014, 12:51 pm

Effort and motivation also effect IQ scores.
People who are perfectionist may scrutinize questions more thoroughly.
IQ can be more of a learned pattern of thinking, personality, and motivation than a measure of how well someone's brain works.

Introverts tend to have higher IQ's than extroverts.



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12 Sep 2014, 1:02 pm

Not sure if I have had my IQ tested, it might have been part of the assessment they did to diagnose me with aspergers. But they did say my mental abilities seemed to fluctuate like with the being great at reading and writing(except fiction :evil: which I think I suck at not due to lack of ability to write well just ideas with which to create enough to write about so I much preferred writing assignments pertaining to researching information and writing an essay....I had A's in my psychology and sociology classes, B or C in writing it was more the fictional type last time I dropped out of college but couldn't pass remedial math even with a tutor. So I could see that but can't remember if I had an actual IQ test or what the results where I will have to try and find my copy of what was written for the assessment.


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12 Sep 2014, 6:05 pm

Lumi wrote:
EzraS wrote:
From what i am told on my forums i am intelligent....but i have many imparements that make me like a little kid. I need help in a lot of areas the same as a 5 year old. I appear as severely autistic to those who don't know better.

Just found out my social skills are poor enough, along with my small body -first guess an intellectual disability.


I'm small too. My social skills are bad, i'm very withdrawn. I have so many learning disabilities IQ tests on me are inconclusive. I score high in reading and writing, but low in other areas.



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12 Sep 2014, 6:26 pm

eggheadjr wrote:
If I had to classify myself I'd say I'm medium functioning.

I'm very "book smart" but certainly inept when it comes to many real life things.

I've been told I'm "smart as a whip AND dumb as a post".

:D


I'm pretty much the same way. XD